The game is too dull just like Rome 2

[SKSlave]

For some reason I simply cannot get into Attila the way I got into Total War games prior to Rome 2. I feel like there's no reason for me to press end turn and wait for the next turn to come around. All battles are either heavily in my favour or heavily against me. There's very little chance for fair battles because of the new army system.

Somewhere along the way, Total War games lost that "pull factor" that kept you playing another turn. I can't quite put my finger on why it is. Perhaps it's just a stale formula now. Twenty unit battles with awful AI, fighting the same size armies we had a decade ago. There's been very little innovation.

What are your thoughts? Does anyone else feel the same way?

Regards

[lonewolf90]

Perhaps you should take a break for awhile from Totalwar series? I had that feeling before and took a break for certain time before finally found some urge to dive into Totalwar again

[Theramines]

Perhaps you should take a break for awhile from Totalwar series?

The Steam summer sale this year coincided with a time when I had had enough of TW, so I bought several other games of various genres and tried them out. These included Scourge of War: Waterloo, Pike and Shot Campaigns: le Roi Soleil, several MoW and ToW titles, Amnesia, Grim Fandango, Rise of Nations, etc, etc. For one reason or another, I lost interest in them pretty quickly or couldn't be bothered climbing massive learning curves (one of them had a 100 page manual and several 15-40 minute youtube videos just to learn the controls). I even tried Wolfenstein: the New Order (so many cutscenes. Cutscene Simulator 2015. Cutscenes ad nauseum).

Eventually I returned to TW after a few weeks somewhat refreshed, but definitely more appreciative.

For all their flaws, TW historical titles are fun and well made. lonewolf90 might be right. Take a break and see how you feel in a few weeks or months.

[Darios]

One thing I believe that has become stale to the point of boredom are campaigns set on the (particularly the Western half) European continent. The Last Roman and Age of Charlemagne are both wonderful campaigns with excellent storytelling, but I no longer have that sense of "exploration" because Western Europe has been extremely overdone in Rome 2/Attila campaigns. In both games, there are a grand total of FIVE mini-campaigns (CiG, HatG, IA, TLR, AoC) that at one point or another, all involve marching up the Rhone valley from Massalia.

Conversely, I recently fired up FotS with a friend and we had a most wonderful time running up and down a land that was new to us: Japan. I felt the "joy of exploration" that I had not known since I first played Rome: Total War. I have been imploring CA for 2-3 years now that they need to step outside the box a bit and give us campaigns set in the Balkans, the Middle East, Central Asia, Africa, etc otherwise their games/campaigns will become increasingly stale. In my opinion, that's the major problem. CA has become really good at storytelling and making new factions feel like a totally new experience, but they need to learn to put their financial fears aside and give us a mini-campaign set in a region outside of Western Europe. Maybe then Total War games will begin feeling new again.

[LinusLinothorax]

One thing I believe that has become stale to the point of boredom are campaigns set on the (particularly the Western half) European continent. The Last Roman and Age of Charlemagne are both wonderful campaigns with excellent storytelling, but I no longer have that sense of "exploration" because Western Europe has been extremely overdone in Rome 2/Attila campaigns. In both games, there are a grand total of FIVE mini-campaigns (CiG, HatG, IA, TLR, AoC) that at one point or another, all involve marching up the Rhone valley from Massalia.

Conversely, I recently fired up FotS with a friend and we had a most wonderful time running up and down a land that was new to us: Japan. I felt the "joy of exploration" that I had not known since I first played Rome: Total War. I have been imploring CA for 2-3 years now that they need to step outside the box a bit and give us campaigns set in the Balkans, the Middle East, Central Asia, Africa, etc otherwise their games/campaigns will become increasingly stale. In my opinion, that's the major problem. CA has become really good at storytelling and making new factions feel like a totally new experience, but they need to learn to put their financial fears aside and give us a mini-campaign set in a region outside of Western Europe. Maybe then Total War games will begin feeling new again.

I would cut off my ballsack for a Medieval 3 with a Broken Crescent dlc.

[Theramines]

I'm not sure which body part I'd mutilate for a Total War: Suleiman. But, yes, would chops bits off for something like that.

[Darios]

In the realm of Medieval 3, I'd love a Mongol invasion of Eastern Europe, as well as a Balkans campaign set between 1350-1530.

Thank God for Rusichi and Tsardoms ^_^

[Imperator Artorius]

A TW focusing on the Mongols from the rise to power of Genghis Khan to the death of Kublai Khan would be absolutely phenomenal. But very very ambitious which is a worry.

Personally I'd like to see CA take on a new type of warfare, namely Pike and Shot (Semi present in Medieval 2 ish), given proper justice, with added mechanics such as supply lines, perhaps focused around the Thirty Years War. Bit of an ask though perhaps.

[Darios]

A TW focusing on the Mongols from the rise to power of Genghis Khan to the death of Kublai Khan would be absolutely phenomenal. But very very ambitious which is a worry.

This is the kind of adventure that Total War needs to get people excited again. A big map stretching from Poland and Hungary in the West to China and Manchuria in the East, with all of Asia to explore in between. The factional/cultural diversity would also be absolutely epic.

I am rather tired of seeing the Mongols depicted as an endless horde "erupting" out of the "wilds of the East" and would love to see them depicted from their beginnings as a group of unorganized tribes, able to build camps and ultimately (through the assimilation of technology from other cultures) - learn to build great cities.

[Imperator Artorius]

This is the kind of adventure that Total War needs to get people excited again. A big map stretching from Poland and Hungary in the West to China and Manchuria in the East, with all of Asia to explore in between. The factional/cultural diversity would also be absolutely epic.

I am rather tired of seeing the Mongols depicted as an endless horde "erupting" out of the "wilds of the East" and would love to see them depicted from their beginnings as a group of unorganized tribes, able to build camps and ultimately (through the assimilation of technology from other cultures) - learn to build great cities.

It would be incredible IF done right. But that is a big if. There are all sorts of potential issues. For example, the scale of the battles and sieges that took place in China dwarf anything that happened in Europe until the Napoleonic Wars pretty much. Look at the battles of Yehuling (1211) or Xiangyang (1267-1273) especially the latter which must count among some of the most epic sieges in history. That will look ridiculous with TW's new sieges assuming the Warhammer style will be used going forward. Admittedly TW has naturally had to abstract troop numbers to fractions of the actual size of battles for technical reasons but still.

You also have the sheer scale of the necessary campaign map and all the cultures present which would have to be represented at least somewhat decently. Not to mention the CAI etc. As amazing as it would be, and it would hopefully force CA to truly be creative to do it justice, I can't see it happening.

[zsimmortal]

It would be incredible IF done right. But that is a big if. There are all sorts of potential issues. For example, the scale of the battles and sieges that took place in China dwarf anything that happened in Europe until the Napoleonic Wars pretty much. Look at the battles of Yehuling (1211) or Xiangyang (1267-1273) especially the latter which must count among some of the most epic sieges in history. That will look ridiculous with TW's new sieges assuming the Warhammer style will be used going forward. Admittedly TW has naturally had to abstract troop numbers to fractions of the actual size of battles for technical reasons but still.

You also have the sheer scale of the necessary campaign map and all the cultures present which would have to be represented at least somewhat decently. Not to mention the CAI etc. As amazing as it would be, and it would hopefully force CA to truly be creative to do it justice, I can't see it happening.

This is total war, just a game. Can't expect the impossible. It would have the most diverse cast and scenarios out of any Total war game :

- Poland, Hungary, GD of Lithuania, various Rus factions, Byzantium, Rum, other Balkan/Caucasian factions and the Baltic crusaders in the West
- Crusaders, Khwarezm and the various Turkish sultanates/groups with the Arab sultanates/Caliphates in the central part
- Mongol tribes vs. Jin dynasty vs. Western Xia vs. Song dynasty in the East

Pretty amazing to think about. Highly unlikely CA would exclude Western Europe for a historical game though (Shogun aside).

[Darios]

Highly unlikely CA would exclude Western Europe for a historical game though (Shogun aside).

Yup it's quite sad. It is even sadder that things have gotten to the point where people are beginning to demand it. The source of the problem lies in the fact that if CA were to include Western Europe on the campaign map, they're automatically going to shift 90% of the game's focus there. It has unimaginative, repetitive, and boring. Now, players would still be able to play as knight heavy, Western oriented factions such as Hungary, Poland, and the Crusader states, but in a perfect world they would be outliers in a story that focuses on the Mongols.

[zsimmortal]

Yup it's quite sad. It is even sadder that things have gotten to the point where people are beginning to demand it. The source of the problem lies in the fact that if CA were to include Western Europe on the campaign map, they're automatically going to shift 90% of the game's focus there. It has unimaginative, repetitive, and boring. Now, players would still be able to play as knight heavy, Western oriented factions such as Hungary, Poland, and the Crusader states, but in a perfect world they would be outliers in a story that focuses on the Mongols.

Are people really demanding it? Maybe they want Medieval 3 (which I assume is one of the next titles coming out), but I don't think it would make the Mongol period any less popular. I just think CA is too scared to try something this ambitious while cutting out where most of their non-american playerbase lives.

[Darios]

Are people really demanding it?

There are not a lot of people, but in the TWC there are a vocal few (me included) who were turned off by CA's focus on Western Europe in creating DLC mini-campaigns for Attila and Rome 2. I believe it is part of what contributed to the OP's boredom with both games - the lack of new lands to explore.

I just think CA is too scared to try something this ambitious while cutting out where most of their non-american playerbase lives.

Agreed. I am American and we grew learning in school that Europe means only Great Britain, France, Spain, and sometimes Germany. I sometimes get the impression that our bad educational standards has led to CA feeling that they cannot make a profit without falling back on what's "Hollywood" or "pop culture." Maybe the super awesome Marco Polo series will be enough to convince CA that a game centered around the Mongol world would be well received, even for the American fanbase.

[Imperator Artorius]

Pre-warning Im largely ignorant of the history of this area besides looking at the relevant wikipedia articles.

Imo its a real shame we didnt get a mini-campaign for Attila focused in Asia, perhaps to the east of the Sassanids, maybe around the empires of the Red and White Huns, or Indian powers, with maybe the western portion of the Rouran Khaganate.
In particular I found the Alans and the White Huns really fun to play in Attila, besides the fact their armour looks amazing imo. I just love the sort of steppe lamellar and scale armour those factions used. This is an area largely untouched by TW (except by Empire, sort of) and it would probably go a long way to breathe life into a series that is becoming a little stale, what with it just retreading already areas and periods already visited in previous games.

[zsimmortal]

Agreed. I am American and we grew learning in school that Europe means only Great Britain, France, Spain, and sometimes Germany. I sometimes get the impression that our bad educational standards has led to CA feeling that they cannot make a profit without falling back on what's "Hollywood" or "pop culture." Maybe the super awesome Marco Polo series will be enough to convince CA that a game centered around the Mongol world would be well received, even for the American fanbase.

Even without Marco Polo, the Mongols should be pretty attractive as a subject for a total war game. Thing is, Attila didn't garner much interest and I'm not sure how they'll take it at CA. Mind you, for a game based around the leader of mighty horde, they sure as hell failed to put the focus on the Huns beyond having them as a scary boss.

I do think they should be able to attract a fair amount of players with 'badass' factions like the Teutonic knights (and other crusader states), the Mongols, the Ayyubids (and their Mamluks) and the Byzantines. Most of us history buffs would probably appreciate being able to participate in the power struggles in Iran, the Baltic and China. That said, I'm not holding my breath.

[bigdaddy1204]

Broken Crescent was the most succesful mod for Medieval 2 Total War, and it has a map that stretches from Constantinople through Anatolia, Syria, Egypt, Iraq, Iran, Pakistan and Afghanistan into India. The most popular civ was probably the Byzantines, but it introduced many players to a lot of the Muslim and Indian factions for the very first time. I'd never heard of the Ghaznavids nor the Ghorids till I played Broken Crescent, yet the Ghaznavids became one of my favourite Total War factions

I'd like to see a Medieval 3. I'm waiting for Medieval Kingdoms mod for Attila to come out, but it's taking forever for the campaign game to be released.

[stevehoos]

Here is my advice, wait until Bannerlord releases. You will actually have modding support and a dev team that is more proactive about fixing bugs. I know it is not the same type of game, but quality makes up for it.

[Starship Trooper]

Chiming in late here, but I think the original point kind of got lost here. Changing the environment to East Asia or the Middle East without addressing the sub-standard campaign AI, poor diplomacy and broken siege mechanics is not going to help. R2 and it's successors gets boring simply because the CAI is content to roll over and expose it's belly to you while you dismember their empires systematically. R2 was a graphic upgrade and introduced a couple of neat features but also was a step backwards in other areas. Personally I'll keep coming back for more if you have a compelling, challenging gaming experience, I couldn't care less whether it's Western Europe or the Antarctic.

[Huberto]

Twenty unit battles with awful AI, fighting the same size armies we had a decade ago. There's been very little innovation.

What are your thoughts? Does anyone else feel the same way?

Yes I completely agree. TW has grown into a AAA developer, so commercially this impacts the formula, keeping innovation to a minimum. I hope CA will take some risks with their systems and improve the challenge without resorting to writing scripts targeting the player as they did in Attila. I hope they'll get away (at least in the historical games) from twitch-focused battles, and silly combat animations. I am hoping every historical game will come with "hardcore" options, allowing players like us to have a more diverse and historically authentic experience.

I think it's past time for CA to build an engine that is mod friendly, bring out games with expanded armies and battles, more systems in diplomacy and empire-management, and military realism features like supply and attrition for armies on the move.

That said, I keep coming back to historical TW because I find the formula of the series irresistible. No one else does the military campaigns combined with battles. And it's pretty. It's like video game comfort food for me, which makes me part of the problem, I guess. At least I don't pre-order. And I didn't buy phuking Warhammer.

Personally I'll keep coming back for more if you have a compelling, challenging gaming experience, I couldn't care less whether it's Western Europe or the Antarctic.

This is absolutely the case for me. I don't care where the campaign is, as long as it's historical.