Need help acquiring Archon traits for Koinon Hellenon FMs

**melvidh** · April 02, 2018, 09:03 AM

It is a bit silly to quote myself, but i answered some similar question only days ago in other thread , you could check it to see if you find it usefull.

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...II-FAQ/page242

Regards:
melvidh

**rinza00** · April 02, 2018, 05:59 PM

Originally Posted by melvidh

It is a bit silly to quote myself, but i answered some similar question only days ago in other thread , you could check it to see if you find it usefull.

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...II-FAQ/page242

Regards:
melvidh

That's exactly what I need! Thanks, pal! Much appreciated!

**QuintusSertorius** · April 03, 2018, 12:16 PM

Originally Posted by rinza00

Thanks, mate! Gonna try today to move them all to their "home" regions.

And btw what would be the best outcome of this reform? Would I get some better units? Maybe it already happened and I didn't notice it=) Should I receive some special event notice?

Gradual unlocking of all KH's better government buildings, and thus the higher tiers of infrastructure. Which include those that mimic Hellenistic Colonies (which KH can't build or recruit from), and another that mimics the polis (because KH can't build new ones, though they can recruit from existing ones).

There are event notices for each stage of this complex reform.

**rinza00** · April 05, 2018, 11:48 PM

Originally Posted by QuintusSertorius

Gradual unlocking of all KH's better government buildings, and thus the higher tiers of infrastructure. Which include those that mimic Hellenistic Colonies (which KH can't build or recruit from), and another that mimics the polis (because KH can't build new ones, though they can recruit from existing ones).

There are event notices for each stage of this complex reform.

Thanks!
Is there a place to read more about it? Does the new KH "Colonies" system work the same way as the original one?
What are names of those buildings, please? I can check their features in the file.
Cheers!

**QuintusSertorius** · April 06, 2018, 03:21 AM

Originally Posted by rinza00

Thanks!
Is there a place to read more about it? Does the new KH "Colonies" system work the same way as the original one?
What are names of those buildings, please? I can check their features in the file.
Cheers!

It's not a colony system, it's a collection of government buildings that mimic the recruitment of the Hellenistic Colony. For other Hellenistic factions, they don't get professional Greeks in their governments, only in the Hellenistic Colony. KH can't build those, so this gives them a means to get them as an exception to the usual rule that Hellenistic governments only provide locals.

The kh3/kh4 mimics the helcol_one. The kh7/kh8 mimics the helcol_two. The kh6 provides an imitation of a polis_two in areas that don't have a polis.

**rinza00** · April 06, 2018, 05:13 AM

Originally Posted by QuintusSertorius

It's not a colony system, it's a collection of government buildings that mimic the recruitment of the Hellenistic Colony. For other Hellenistic factions, they don't get professional Greeks in their governments, only in the Hellenistic Colony. KH can't build those, so this gives them a means to get them as an exception to the usual rule that Hellenistic governments only provide locals.

The kh3/kh4 mimics the helcol_one. The kh7/kh8 mimics the helcol_two. The kh6 provides an imitation of a polis_two in areas that don't have a polis.

Gotcha! Thanks a lot!

**Camcolit** · October 11, 2019, 07:19 AM

This is incredibly convoluted, non-intuitive, and tedious.

Ok I take it back, if you don't need to take them to Corinth anymore I suppose it's not too bad.

**QuintusSertorius** · October 11, 2019, 09:00 AM

Originally Posted by Camcolit

This is incredibly convoluted, non-intuitive, and tedious.

Ok I take it back, if you don't need to take them to Corinth anymore I suppose it's not too bad.

Then don't play KH, there are other factions.

**Camcolit** · October 12, 2019, 12:16 AM

Actually I'm enjoying the KH campaign a lot.

**Roma_Victrix** · October 17, 2019, 04:41 AM

I just want to say that I'm loving all the new traits I see for Koinon Hellenon since the last time I played them, which was probably version 2.2b or something old like that. Since then I've played full Makedonia, Epeiros, and Roman campaigns. I'm not a fan of the KH recruitment system, but will be happy so long as I can have Greek troops throughout the Mediterranean via alternative building tree infrastructure, i.e. government buildings instead of hel_col colonial settler ones (which should all just be demolished for cash as soon as you capture new settlements). So long as I'm able to eventually recruit Thorakitai infantry from Emporion and Massalia I'll be satisfied.

**Aodh Mór Ó Néill** · October 17, 2019, 06:25 AM

I can understand why the KH wouldn't be able to build settler colonies, but I don't see the rationale behind not enabling them to build polis buildings.

Since historically the Greeks city-states colonised and built new poleis all over the Mediterranean, why not allow them within the game? Is it for gameplay reasons, or is there a historical rationale I haven't thought of?

**QuintusSertorius** · October 17, 2019, 06:34 AM

Originally Posted by Aodh Mór Ó Néill

I can understand why the KH wouldn't be able to build settler colonies, but I don't see the rationale behind not enabling them to build polis buildings.

Since historically the Greeks city-states colonised and built new poleis all over the Mediterranean, why not allow them within the game? Is it for gameplay reasons, or is there a historical rationale I haven't thought of?

The notion is that the whole business of colonisation of any kind has been taken over by the Makedonians, genuinely Greek colonisation has finished. That includes setting up new civic institutions based on trade. City states were no longer active in founding new settlements as they had done from the 7th to 5th centuries BC.

Note KH has a government which allow them to imitate having a polis to draw from (the kh6 - which in the patch also features some locals so it isn't as painful a choice) in places with a high level of rel_h, and they can still take advantage of any polis-building by the AI.

**Camcolit** · October 17, 2019, 10:25 AM

Originally Posted by Roma_Victrix

I'm not a fan of the KH recruitment system, but will be happy so long as I can have Greek troops throughout the Mediterranean via alternative building tree infrastructure

KH can install their top tier government all over the place, covering the map with huge, rich cites and being able to recruit loads of elite hoplites - in numbers enough that you can base your army on them. I didn't, but it would probably be optimal, given they are only slightly more expensive than thorakitai and significantly better. They can also recruit excellent auxiliaries. Overall KH are great and probably too strong imo.

**Roma_Victrix** · October 22, 2019, 03:02 AM

Originally Posted by Camcolit

KH can install their top tier government all over the place, covering the map with huge, rich cites and being able to recruit loads of elite hoplites - in numbers enough that you can base your army on them. I didn't, but it would probably be optimal, given they are only slightly more expensive than thorakitai and significantly better. They can also recruit excellent auxiliaries. Overall KH are great and probably too strong imo.

Yep, I built a KH empire extending to all of Great Britain years ago in v. 2.2b, but a lot has changed since then! I didn't even know the Ptolemies declared war if I took Cyrene in Libya, which was held by my new enemies, Carthage, which I just started fighting for control of Sicily. It took me completely by surprise, wasn't expecting that! I rushed a diplomat over to them right away to make peace, which was rather stinging since I had been allied with the Ptolemies for two decades before this point. At the moment I'm still in the Thureophoroi reform period, but once I reach the Thorakitai reforms I'll start expanding in earnest and test your claims about building factional governments. From what I can tell any area without a preexisting polis infrastructure cannot field league governments. If it has less than 30% or so Hellenistic polities it seems like allied democracies or oligarchies are the only choice. When it's above that percentage it seems as though the Supervised Hellenic Administration is an option, and it has good recruitment options, but it actually lacks the elite Hoplitai Epilektoi. They seem to have the regular Hoplitai, though, among regional units that are available.

**Camcolit** · October 22, 2019, 10:26 AM

Playing the latest version, I had 'Hellenic League Member State' governments in all of Greece, Macedonia, Thrace, the part of Illyria I'd taken, and the part of Asia minor I'd taken (which was quite a lot). That is a lot of cities. With that government all the cities have no problem becoming huge and ultra rich with large ports, industry etc. It's a bit overpowered. You can recruit large number of elite hoplites all over the place. You can also recruit Cretan archers on the Greek mainland.

I'd like to see serious limitation put on all cites that historically were not major centers, something in the style of city mod for EB1. As KH you can have 20 Romes.