Small Orthodox corner

[AnthoniusII]

We went a bit off topic. The comclusion is that Popes after 7th century (untill 6th century all Popes like all Patraiarchs had Hellenic origin and education including language) promoted the excuse that Hellenic terms are too complicated for theor flok to understand. I mentioned that it was a Pope that actually saved the Holly Icons but in Orthodoxy today we missed their real point of existance following our antiquity traditions. So its not an Icon ,nore a Saint that creates a miracle but The God Him Self ussing sometimes humans as "vessels" of his miracles. In Orthodoxy we forgot that and started to worship certain icons of God's Mother, Saints etc...

[basics]

The Gospel is about men and women coming to a knowledge of how far from God they are and that by the actions of Jesus Christ at the cross they can be saved, not for a little while but for always. Therefore salvation is a total work of God on the recipient brought to that knowledge. The regenerate heart is the result of God's work on a fallen soul and the surety that no-one can ever take that person out of God's hands ever. So, when a new born Christian falls as all do at sometime, the Father does not see that person but His Son in that person and so they are picked up by the interceding of Jesus Christ to carry on the race that Paul tells us of. Therefore when we confess our sins those sins have already been cleansed and were so at the cross. No other person living or dead can do only what the Godhead does so every prayer should be directed to It. To pray to, to venerate anyone outside of the Godhead is useless and unBiblical.

[Gromovnik]

Oh, this will be good. Pump it up, boys!

[Cookiegod]

The comclusion is that Popes after 7th century (untill 6th century all Popes like all Patraiarchs had Hellenic origin and education including language) promoted the excuse that Hellenic terms are too complicated for theor flok to understand.

Well that's very surprising to me given that the first pope was not Hellenic, but from Judaea, and all popes would have preached in Latin, not Greek, as Latin was the predominant language of the west. And sure, most of them were probably decent in Greek, but that didn't magically stop. I'm calling BS on that "too complicated stuff" btw.

[Morticia Iunia Bruti]

Most popes/bishops of Rome came from Rome herself or at least Italy and were of roman, latin or italic origin:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_popes



Bonifacius II was even an Ostrogoth.^^

[Cookiegod]

Though to be fair the pope who ultimately started the great schism (Leo IX) was Alsacian from very close to where I grew up. Athanasios isn't completely wrong in that there were cultural reasons as well, but the Germanic tribes had less to do with it than the cultural differences in the halves of the Roman empire, and the two halves having to deal with completely different circumstances. Those differences then grew over time.

[alhoon]

Fascinating discussion that doesn't change the fact that Heresies didn't spawn because of the supposed inferiority of not-Greek languages but because of local ambitions that were soooomewhat based on poor translations - and the poor translations were not because the languages themselves were incapable of delivering God's Word as good as Greek, but because the people making the translations were not that well versed in Greek.
Greek is an excellent language, but ... it is not God's chosen language. God doesn't have one preferred language.
The word of God is talking to the heart and soul. Saying that translating the bible from Greek to something else would weaken it, is demeaning to the Bible.

We can talk for eternity about how awesome Greek is, and I agree that it is and it was a very structured and precise language.
But that has little to do with God's word that was spread by simple people. Millions converted out of their pagan religions within a couple of generations, shunning the false religions of their ancestors because the word of God was True and spoke to them. Not because it was eloquently spoken and delivered by skilled car salesmen. The Farmer in Syria that changed his religion from Zoroastrianism to Christianity didn't do it because the missionary that talked to him was a good spin doctor but because he was convinced.

[Derc]

Both God and language are interpreted by the human mind. Humanity is prone to error, no matter what you do. Thus you will never have truth.

[Sir Adrian]

^Wisdom

[basics]

Both God and language are interpreted by the human mind. Humanity is prone to error, no matter what you do. Thus you will never have truth.

Derc,

That's a strong statement to make considering that Jesus Christ is not only the Truth but the Way and the Life to all them brought to regeneration by The Father and imbued with the Holy Ghost to teach and lead them into that Way. The truth that I have is that Jesus Christ died on a cross in place of me to have my sin expunged forever in the eyes of God. That only happened after God put me on my knees and changed my heart one evening in my fortieth year. Am I perfect? No, not at the moment, but one day I shall be when called out of this life.

[Gromovnik]

That only happened after God put me on my knees and changed my heart one evening

Oooooh, do tell us more!

[Cookiegod]

Gromovnik I have the feeling that you're physically and/or mentally incapable of adding any substance to any conversation. Can you point me to the last post of yours that wasn't a snarky one-liner?

[basics]

Oooooh, do tell us more!

Gromovnik,

Well I had started going to a Baptist church in Hopeman where things about myself were preached from the pulpit making me wonder how that preacher knew so much about me. I thought that the garage owner who I befriended had been speaking about me to him but that was not the case at all. Anyway wanting to know more I kept going back and one evening after the service I went to a Chinese for my dinner along with some of the people from the church. When dropping me off at my digs John my friend started off without his lights being on and so i shouted to him about them. One of the girls there stuck her head out of the side window and shouted back, " We have the greatest Light in the world." I remember thinking at that moment that I too wanted that and so I rushed into the house, went upstairs into my rooms and fell on my knees asking God to give me that. Suddenly a strange glow started all the way up my body to the top of my head and I knew then that God had answered me. That night I slept like a baby without the usual pain killers I had to take regularly. Next morning getting into work my employee kept looking at me eventually telling me I was somehow different for not once that morning did I curse once and haven't since. Things were never the same again.

[Gromovnik]

Gromovnik I have the feeling that you're physically and/or mentally incapable of adding any substance to any conversation. Can you point me to the last post of yours that wasn't a snarky one-liner?

What, you're offended? Do you need a safe space? I just want to hear about his sexual encounter with Jesus. What's wrong with that, the man was a gay icon. On the list of gayest public figures there's Jesus, and then there's no one for 500 places or so, and then there's Freddie Mercury.

[basics]

Gromovnik,

What sexual encounter?

[Cookiegod]

What, you're offended? Do you need a safe space? I just want to hear about his sexual encounter with Jesus. What's wrong with that, the man was a gay icon. On the list of gayest public figures there's Jesus, and then there's no one for 500 places or so, and then there's Freddie Mercury.

Hey that's a two liner, and your harrdiharrharr "humour" is slightly less forced than the usual. I take what I can get.

[basics]

What, you're offended? Do you need a safe space? I just want to hear about his sexual encounter with Jesus. What's wrong with that, the man was a gay icon. On the list of gayest public figures there's Jesus, and then there's no one for 500 places or so, and then there's Freddie Mercury.

Gromivnik,

I repeat what sexual encounter?

[Sir Adrian]

[basics]

Sir Adrian,

There was much I could agree with but the one thing that stood out to me that was wrong in the monk's teaching was that it left the dying of Christ on that cross as though it was only a partial work. When Christ died on the cross as me was that death only a partial work that took only a portion of my sin away or was it complete in that he took all my sin away? The Book to the Hebrews tells us that God the Father doesn't even remember me as being a sinner because of what Jesus Christ did for me on that cross. Also it is not the Holy Ghost who intercedes for me, rather Jesus Christ anytime that I fall or stumble. The day that I was born again was the very day that the Holy Ghost entered into me to comfort and guide me on my new journey in Christ. When I do fall or stumble the Father looks to Jesus as my intercessor not the Holy Spirit. The Spirit's main job is to remind me constantly of what Christ Jesus did for me and to help me through the race that Paul talks of as being my journey, that race being to fight against all that Satan will throw at me. You see the Bible tells us that those who are born again of the Spirit of God cannot ever be taken out of the hands of God but the monk never said or implied that truth. The impression he gave is that a born again Christian, the only type of Christian, can fall from grace, can be lost, which isn't true.

[Sir Adrian]

A most blessed dormition feast to each and every one.