Small Orthodox corner

[alhoon]

Everybody can repent and be forgiven. If not, we would not be accepting all those north american converts.

That still doesn't show me where the Old Calendarists go against the Orthodox Dogma, Settra.

[Sir Adrian]

You didn't ask to be shown. Orthodox dogma requires obedience. Obedience of the priests towards the bishop, the bishop's obedience twoards the archbishop, etc. It also requires very strict obdience to certain rules, such as priests being ordained by bishops and lay-people not acting as priests. The old calendarists do not respect any of that.

[basics]

Sir Adrian,

And yet the Bible tells us in 1Peter 2:9 and Revelation 5:10 that all believers are priests whose Head is Jesus Christ our Lord. Now surely if the Scriptures are timeless because Jesus is the Same, Yesterday, Today and Tomorrow then so should His church be regardless of changes to a calendar?

[Sir Adrian]

It doesn't say that if you read the passages in context.

[alhoon]

You didn't ask to be shown. Orthodox dogma requires obedience. Obedience of the priests towards the bishop, the bishop's obedience twoards the archbishop, etc. It also requires very strict obdience to certain rules, such as priests being ordained by bishops and lay-people not acting as priests. The old calendarists do not respect any of that.

Wait, Old Calendarists ordain priests OUTSIDE the apostolical tradition? O_O
Are you sure they ordained priests without a real bishop? They are pretty hard-core when it comes to dogma, I really don't see how they would bypass something so fundamental.


Furthermore: Priests being ordained by bishops is not a "rule" it is how we keep the apostolical tradition. It is mystical, it is not a rule of the church.
As for the dogma requiring obedience, I think you get it too far. It is not meant that way. Orthodox priests disagree with their bishop all the time. When the Archbishop of Greece went to the Ecumenical Council of Crete, a bunch of bishops called him names. Now with the vaccines, some hardcores refuse to comply with the bishop's orders and instruct their flock to NOT get the vaccine. When the lockdowns were in effect, some priests disagreed with the Holy Synod that decreed that churches in Greece will remain closed during Easter 2020 and the liturgy will happen behind closed doors, with priests only.
None of these were accused of heresy or apostasy.

For the protestants here: Every orthodox priest is ordained by a bishop who was ordained by a bishop ... all the way back to the apostles in one unbroken chain.

[basics]

And so it is with every person born again of the Spirit of God that they will be priests of the order of Melchizadec whose Head is Jesus Christ our Lord just as is written.

[AnthoniusII]

The calendar issue is quite complicated espesialy for non Orthodox Christians.
There are two kind of old calendar followers.
Those that follow the old (its not the official old though) calendar remaining outside the western influences like:

• the Russians
• the Serbians (i am not sure about Bulgarian though).
• The monks in Athos

Those are not among the heretics simply because Churches like the Greek one, the Patriarcees in Jerusalem and Alexandreia were forced to join the western calendar for political reasons.
Now in the domains of the last ones those that did not uknowlege the Authority of the Local Patriarchee and TURNED to old calendar were announced as heretics. That is because their change was based on political and autoritarian reasons.
If ALL Othodox Christians would follow their ORIGINAL calendar today we would have Jan 9th 7530 Anno Mundi.

[basics]

Not according to the Jewish calendar my friend and since that people were chosen to carry the oracles of God I suspect that they are nearer to the truth, why? Because the Bible is built on numbers that are specifically important like 3 being the number of the Trinity, 4 being all the corners of the earth, six the number of man, 7 the number of perfection, 10 the number of completion, 12 the number of Patriarchs and Apostles as well as 40 being a number associated with great or significant events all over the Bible. So, my guess is that we have not reached seven thousand years because that number to me signifies 7 perfection x 10 x 10 x 10 signifying the completeness of the Trinity. In other words that would be the time when Jesus comes back to bring in the new heavens and earth, everything being judged accordingly. Then everything will be perfect and completed.

[Sir Adrian]

Nobody except for God the Father knows the time of the second coming, not even God the Son. Trying to predict it is a great and foul sin.

Wait, Old Calendarists ordain priests OUTSIDE the apostolical tradition? O_O
Are you sure they ordained priests without a real bishop? They are pretty hard-core when it comes to dogma, I really don't see how they would bypass something so fundamental.


Furthermore: Priests being ordained by bishops is not a "rule" it is how we keep the apostolical tradition. It is mystical, it is not a rule of the church.
As for the dogma requiring obedience, I think you get it too far. It is not meant that way. Orthodox priests disagree with their bishop all the time. When the Archbishop of Greece went to the Ecumenical Council of Crete, a bunch of bishops called him names. Now with the vaccines, some hardcores refuse to comply with the bishop's orders and instruct their flock to NOT get the vaccine. When the lockdowns were in effect, some priests disagreed with the Holy Synod that decreed that churches in Greece will remain closed during Easter 2020 and the liturgy will happen behind closed doors, with priests only.
None of these were accused of heresy or apostasy.

For the protestants here: Every orthodox priest is ordained by a bishop who was ordained by a bishop ... all the way back to the apostles in one unbroken chain.

I'm talking about the people in new calendar countries that broke off from the church, thereby becoming heretics, and started their own church that is not in communion with anyone and is outside apostolic tradition. I am not talking about people from countries that officially follow the old calendar like Russia or Serbia.

[basics]

Sir Adrian,

Whilst even Jesus could not tell when He would be back He did indicate about certain signs of the times that must precede His coming so we Christians have to be on guard as it were not to be caught unawares. The traditions, if one can call them that, of the Apostles was to go out into the world and tell of the good news, the Gospel, the evangel, of Jesus Christ. Did they wear priestly robes? no. Did they bow down to icons? no. Did they worship Mary? no. Did they collect relics? no. Did they preach the bread and wine as being Jesus? no. So what did they do? The answer is to be found in the Bible plain and simple.

[Sir Adrian]

A lot of misinformation there.

Whilst even Jesus could not tell when He would be back He did indicate about certain signs of the times that must precede His coming so we Christians have to be on guard as it were not to be caught unawares.

Jesus clearly says that nobody except God the Father may know the day or the hour. By trying to guess you are

1. lying, because you will never know it
2. committing the same sin as Lucifer by placing yourself the equal of God

The traditions, if one can call them that

The church predates the Bible by 300 years. Yes you can and should call them that because it's what the original church functioned on and still does.

Did they wear priestly robes? no.

They didn't wear suits either. Maybe you'd like everyone to dress in a tunic and sandals. Btw, some of them did wear priestly robes.

Did they bow down to icons? no.

We've had the ikon conversation before. We do not bow down to ikons, we pray to the people in the ikons. Jesus created the very first ikon and before that the jews also used representations as prayer aid.

Did they worship Mary?

We don't worship Mary.

Did they collect relics?

God created the first relic. Ever heard of the arc of the covenant? The cross is also a relic. Not to mention that every single genuine relic is created by God and God alone.

[basics]

Sir Adrian,

I was relating something that resounds all through the Bible whilst showing you that your calendars do not coincide with the Jewish figures which have to be much older. So, was I intentionally lying? I know that no-one knows the exact time or date of Jesus' reappearal and so repeated what He said about it, that is by us Christians being on our guard not to get caught sleeping as it were. So, I am not placing myself as being equal to God nor would I even dream of doing so but what I am doing is showing the things that God in the Old Covenant saw as an abomination, graven images.

Now regarding the church predating the Bible that is quite obvious when one considers all them accounted righteous before God and all of them right up until Jesus' death and resurrection. That's why Moses was instructed to make a written record of how we came into being and the rules by which we were to live particularly for the Jews yet to be seen and understood by its surrounding nations if one reads the Old Testament properly. What Moses wrote was the word of God, the Old Testament Bible which Jesus authenticated as He preached. The thing is though that all these saints pre Jesus to our knowledge did not have a church separate from the synagogue as we do now, Jew and Gentile in one Body.

If the Arc of the Covenant was the first relic why was it that no man might not only touch it but also look inside it without dying? The importance of the Arc was what was inside and what these things represented then. The thing is that now that representation is Jesus Christ in Whom we owe our beings to and that by Faith alone. We are not Justified by relics of any sort rather by the blood shed by Jesus Christ as our substitute on that cross. The cross didn't save me, no, it was Jesus' blood that did that and we believe that because God gave us the ability through new birth to do it. Christians do not pray to relics but to the One and Only One Who saved us by becoming sin for us.

Which brings me back to numbers, so, tell me why did Jesus die with two others that fateful day? There were three crosses from which hung three sinners why? Was that just a coincidence? Could I suggest there were three because three is the number of the Godhead and so we see three sinners about to receive God's judgement. One was to go to hell, the other to receive salvation by Faith, whilst the One in the middle was to endure God's wrath for all them for whom He died. When Jesus cried out, " It is finished," giving up the Ghost the work of God's judgement was completed for the history of mankind. So, when we pray there are but Three Persons to Whom we do so, Father, Son and Holy Spirit and presented in Jesus' name.

[Sir Adrian]

[basics]

Sir Adrian,

Holy Scripture is the only way to defeat self will and so daily reading of it or them is essential to keep one's feet on the ground of truth. But, and there is always a but, one has to be born again of the Spirit of God to have the slightest chance of doing that.

[alhoon]

Did the Russians really lost a piece of the True Cross with the Moskva battleship?!?

[basics]

Did the Russians really lost a piece of the True Cross with the Moskva battleship?!?

alhoon,

What difference would it make even it it were true?

[alhoon]

alhoon,

What difference would it make even it it were true?

I am asking Orthodox people that would understand.

[Sir Adrian]

Did the Russians really lost a piece of the True Cross with the Moskva battleship?!?

No. It's a lie.

[conon394]

alhoon,

What difference would it make even it it were true?

That you are in a minority of Christians

[Cyclops]

Did the Russians really lost a piece of the True Cross with the Moskva battleship?!?

If its true its an abomination against Christian belief. Sadly many corrupt regimes including the Papacy have at times tried to concoct an idea of Holy War, but Jesus said to love your enemies and turn the other cheek. On the cross he said he could call up a legion of angels but he did not: Jesus utterly rejected warfare while he was on earth.

Putting a piece of the cross on which the saviour died on a machine of war is as vile and heretical as using it for a dildo, its utterly disgusting.