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Thread: Small Orthodox corner

  1. #221
    Cookiegod's Avatar CIVUS DIVUS EX CLIBANO
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    Default Re: Small Orthodox corner

    Quote Originally Posted by basics View Post
    Well, when Jesus said that man cannot live by bread alone, but by every word that cometh from the mouth of God, where is that word? The Old Testament was His Bible built on the Prophets and the New Testament is our Bible built on His words meaning that combined they are the words of God written by men inspired by the Holy Spirit as to what to write just as if He had written the Books Himself. So, could you give examples of inaccuracies or errors?
    Even if the translator is near perfect, you are still bound to lose context through translations. I take it you never learned anything but English, otherwise you'd know that words don't perfectly overlap. A very simple example would be "In the beginning was the word [...]", where the word in the original is actually logos. Logos has a number of meanings, such as meaning, reason, speech, and yes, also word. The bible wasn't created in a vacuum, but for an audience with a cultural context, with logos having been a fixture in amongst other things philosophy since early 5th BC at the latest. As such it was a no brainer for the early Christian audience to interpret the bible in a context. This context gradually became lost in the west once the part of the world under control of the papacy and indeed the papacy itself became increasingly Germanicised. The Protestants then finalised the development by proclaiming sola scriptura, which is completely nonsensical and without any basis.
    Quote Originally Posted by basics View Post
    I asked how it was that you became a Christian but you have not answered, why?
    Mhm Basics, you asked me when I was "born again". As you already know I'm not a protestant. I was baptised rather shortly after birth.
    Quote Originally Posted by basics View Post
    As I said, I am only a sinner saved by the Grace of God having no aspirations to lead anyone but prepared to defend to the death what is written as being the inerrant Word of God.
    basics, you absolutely do have aspirations, and your prime motif of writing here on the orthodox thread is clearly to impose your doctrine on others, not "defend" anything. Your often contradictory backstory has nothing to do with anything on the matter. Mentioning it once can make you appear humble, repeating it again and again and again betrays that act as an act of vanity.
    Quote Originally Posted by basics View Post
    So, when Jesus uttered the words, " Call no man on earth your Father...." was he talking of natural fathers or Spiritual fathers? Obviously He was talking of people indwelt by the Holy Spirit not to call their brethren in Christ father because they now had but One Father in Heaven. There is no other explanation because Jesus being God cannot be confused nor spread confusion. So, I ask once again why monks and priests are called fathers in the systems that use the term?
    See, if you actually cared about the word of god, you would not be doing yet again the same thing you have been caught doing before. You are once more wilfully and intentionally lying. The context of the "Call no man on earth your father..." quote has been laid out to you not just once, and not just twice. You have been proven wrong again and again and everytime the best response, if one can call it such, was to backpedal a little, and yet we're here again.

    Basics, you have absolutely zero respect for the inerrant word of god. You have zero respect for the scripture. All you care about is only yourself, and you selfagrandise yourself by claiming to speak for the lord to push your own petty little doctrine. You get caught out lying again and again and again, and you don't care. You are one of the false prophets Jesus warns us not just once, but repeatedly about, the wolf in sheeps clothing. A man who cares so little about Jesus and the bible that he has no problem with lying about it yet again. You were proven wrong, had zero counterargument, and the best even now is that you with an obvious manipulative intent speak of the "inerrant word of god" to instead refer to your own interpretation. It's not god that confuses you basics, it's the other one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cookiegod View Post
    From Socrates over Jesus to me it has always been the lot of any true visionary to be rejected by the reactionary bourgeoisie
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  2. #222
    basics's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Small Orthodox corner

    Cookiegod,

    Well, let's begin to look at your argument by addressing Jesus when he said, " A man does not live by bread alone but by every word that cometh from the mouth of God." Where is that word? What is that word? If it is not the Bible then where is it? If it is the Bible then it must be inerrant. Indeed why is it that the KJV is the greatest published book of all time? Is it not surprising that the Orthodox system now uses the NKJV as part of its Bible as it's the Protestant Bible?

    So you are not really a Christian since you have never been born again of the Spirit of God. Being baptised as a child does not make a Christian, not according to the Scriptures. Perhaps if you went on Youtube you would see that Jews, Muslims among other belief systems have been born again by their testimonies plus the fact that many Protestants have never been born gain and most likely never will be.

    In your mind am I a liar but yet not according to the Scriptures upon which I find myself in agreement with men like John MacArthur, RC Sproul, John Metcalfe, Alistair Begg and others so your rantings mean nothing and they certainly won't stop me standing fairly and squarely on the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

  3. #223
    alhoon's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: Small Orthodox corner

    Quote Originally Posted by Cookiegod View Post
    basics, you absolutely do have aspirations, and your prime motif of writing here on the orthodox thread is clearly to impose your doctrine on others, not "defend" anything. Your often contradictory backstory has nothing to do with anything on the matter. Mentioning it once can make you appear humble, repeating it again and again and again betrays that act as an act of vanity.
    Although I don't agree with the entire dressing-down of a member of TWC, that deserves +rep.
    The rest was a bit too much.

    Quote Originally Posted by basics View Post
    In your mind am I a liar but yet not according to the Scriptures upon which I find myself in agreement with men like John MacArthur, RC Sproul, John Metcalfe, Alistair Begg and others so your rantings mean nothing
    Upon your erroneous interpretation of the scriptures, and while you find yourself in agreement with a few heterodox scholars, we find ourselves in agreement with 2 millenia of Christian tradition, with Saint Basil the Great, John Chrysostom, Cyril & Methodius and a great number of holy men and saints.


    Quote Originally Posted by basics View Post
    they certainly won't stop me standing fairly and squarely on the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
    OK, that's your right, but can you do it somewhere else? Perhaps in the "Large Basics corner" or something? We're Orthodox here, we have the Bible and Holy Tradition backing our beliefs. Your falsehoods won't convince anyone here. Agree to disagree if you want. You have heard our answers to your opinions and interpretations a dozen of times already. And that won't change. Agree to disagree if you want.
    If you want to stay and continue, do so, but you're wasting your time.
    Last edited by alhoon; November 19, 2021 at 10:56 PM.
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  4. #224
    basics's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Small Orthodox corner

    alhoon,

    Then let's begin the conversation by telling me of the falsehoods that I have spoken on this thread or any other thread concerning the Gospel?

  5. #225
    alhoon's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: Small Orthodox corner

    Quote Originally Posted by basics View Post
    alhoon,

    Then let's begin the conversation by telling me of the falsehoods that I have spoken on this thread or any other thread concerning the Gospel?
    Well, from the next to last post: " Being baptised as a child does not make a Christian"
    Riiiight. Because we will believe you instead of 2000 years of Sacred Tradition...

    and that was just an example.

    Every single thing you say in this thread that contradicts Orthodoxy... is falsehood. Actually, more than falsehood. It's... heresy.
    We are to try convince a heretic to see the error of his or her ways a few times but if they don't, we're advised to not insist (or burn them in a pyre). It is impossible to go against people in matters of faith with arguments because faith is based on belief, not reason.
    Do I know you are wrong? Nah. Do I believe you are wrong? Yes.

    More or less, we're all wrong in our belief about God, because God is incomprehensible. We are just less wrong than you, but our understanding of God is miniscule compared to His infinity. So... I don't blame you for being wrong. I just inform you that your insistence to proselytize to Protestantism in a thread about Orthodoxy is getting tiresome. And you cannot convince me that I am wrong in my religious beliefs.
    Last edited by alhoon; November 20, 2021 at 02:32 AM.
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  6. #226

    Default Re: Small Orthodox corner

    If basics' arguments against Eastern religion are as poor as you say then you should have no trouble refuting them instead of telling him to shut up, no?
    Last edited by Prodromos; November 20, 2021 at 11:26 AM.
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  7. #227
    Alexander78's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Small Orthodox corner

    Why was Prince Vladimir baptized in Chersonesos (Korsun) and accepted the Orthodox faith? Not only because he wanted to marry the Byzantine Princess Anna. Soon after the emperors Basil and Constantine agreed to give him his sister in marriage, Vladimir began to go blind. Anna told him that only faith in the true God and Orthodoxy would help him heal. As soon as the Orthodox priest laid his hands on his head, the prince regained his sight. That is, a miracle happened. After that all the prince's entourage expressed a desire to convert to Orthodoxy and be baptized. The whole of people followed them. We can assume that this is just a legend, but the fact is that thousands of russian people then converted to Orthodoxy and this can already be considered a real miracle, given the state of affairs at that time. The Orthodox faith is what keeps us in this world. God bless you, Orthodox brothers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Prodromos View Post
    Eastern religion
    Specify which Eastern religion you are talking about. Hinduism, Jainism, Buddhism, maybe Sikhism? I will surprise you, but Orthodoxy (like Islam, can you imagine?) and Christianity in general, belong to Western religions. If you used the word "Eastern" to show your disdain, then you showed only your ignorance, unfortunately. I really want to be wrong about disdain.
    Last edited by Alexander78; November 20, 2021 at 11:26 AM.

  8. #228

    Default Re: Small Orthodox corner

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    Upon your erroneous interpretation of the scriptures, and while you find yourself in agreement with a few heterodox scholars, we find ourselves in agreement with 2 millenia of Christian tradition, with Saint Basil the Great, John Chrysostom, Cyril & Methodius and a great number of holy men and saints.
    That will sound pedantic, but the statement above is problematic. The fact that some theologians are considered saints by the same Church doesn't necessarily mean that their teachings are perfectly harmonious. The Three Holy Hierarchs are a particularly controversial case, because of their sympathy they demonstrated towards the views of Origen. John was partial to Origen and gave shelter to a few ''Origenist'' monks, who were not welcomed by the rival Patriarch of Alexandria, but Basil and Gregory were even more open in their support and they probably even compiled Origen's studies into the massive anthology of Philocalia. The issue is that Origen's works were subsequently anathematised and they are still perceived as heretical by the Orthodox Church. Patriarch Photius, under whom Cyril and Methodius proselytised the Slavs and who is also recognized as a saint by the Church, was particularly scathing in his critique against Origen. So, the crux of the matter is how can any Church rely on two millennia of tradition and sainthood, given the fact that the tradition and doctrines in question are often contradictory and in conflict with each other? Overall, I don't believe that the appeal to authority is very useful in establishing the value of a specific dogma.

  9. #229
    Alexander78's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Small Orthodox corner

    Quote Originally Posted by Abdülmecid I View Post
    That will sound pedantic, but the statement above is problematic. The fact that some theologians are considered saints by the same Church doesn't necessarily mean that their teachings are perfectly harmonious. The Three Holy Hierarchs are a particularly controversial case, because of their sympathy they demonstrated towards the views of Origen. John was partial to Origen and gave shelter to a few ''Origenist'' monks, who were not welcomed by the rival Patriarch of Alexandria, but Basil and Gregory were even more open in their support and they probably even compiled Origen's studies into the massive anthology of Philocalia. The issue is that Origen's works were subsequently anathematised and they are still perceived as heretical by the Orthodox Church. Patriarch Photius, under whom Cyril and Methodius proselytised the Slavs and who is also recognized as a saint by the Church, was particularly scathing in his critique against Origen. So, the crux of the matter is how can any Church rely on two millennia of tradition and sainthood, given the fact that the tradition and doctrines in question are often contradictory and in conflict with each other? Overall, I don't believe that the appeal to authority is very useful in establishing the value of a specific dogma.
    The question is not for me, but with your permission. Let's start with the fact that everyone you are talking about is primarily people. With their views, principles, etc. The institution of the church is primarily a human institution. People tend to get into contradictions. But there are also canons. In order to be canonized, person during his lifetime must comply with several rules approved by the Synodal Commission. That is, as you understand, not everyone can become saints or be anathematized. You need to try very hard, both for the first and for the second. To be concise, we can say that there are things in which there are differences, and there are things in which the church has been united for centuries. We can safely rely on such things as saints and prophets.

  10. #230

    Default Re: Small Orthodox corner

    Quote Originally Posted by Alexander78 View Post
    Specify which Eastern religion you are talking about.
    I mean the religion commonly known as "Eastern Orthodox Christianity", also known as the "Orthodox Catholic Church." Of course, since I reject its claim of representing "orthodox Christianity", I won't refer to it by that name -- just as I'm sure you wouldn't refer to Protestantism as "Biblical/Apostolic Christianity."
    Last edited by Prodromos; November 20, 2021 at 09:00 PM.
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  11. #231
    alhoon's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: Small Orthodox corner

    Quote Originally Posted by Abdülmecid I View Post
    That will sound pedantic, but the statement above is problematic. The fact that some theologians are considered saints by the same Church doesn't necessarily mean that their teachings are perfectly harmonious. The Three Holy Hierarchs are a particularly controversial case, because of their sympathy they demonstrated towards the views of Origen. John was partial to Origen and gave shelter to a few ''Origenist'' monks, who were not welcomed by the rival Patriarch of Alexandria, but Basil and Gregory were even more open in their support and they probably even compiled Origen's studies into the massive anthology of Philocalia. The issue is that Origen's works were subsequently anathematised and they are still perceived as heretical by the Orthodox Church. Patriarch Photius, under whom Cyril and Methodius proselytised the Slavs and who is also recognized as a saint by the Church, was particularly scathing in his critique against Origen. So, the crux of the matter is how can any Church rely on two millennia of tradition and sainthood, given the fact that the tradition and doctrines in question are often contradictory and in conflict with each other? Overall, I don't believe that the appeal to authority is very useful in establishing the value of a specific dogma.
    See? That's a more complex approach than throwing misquotation at us.
    Now, indeed, our theologians don't agree on everything. Even from bishop to bishop and priest to priest, there are disagreements. But we agree on some basic tenets.

    That said, about the how we can rely on 2 millenia of tradition... we're not Catholics; we're Prima Scriptura. Scripture goes above Tradition but we rely on the teachings of our holy fathers to find the interpretation of the scripture. Do we have the complete picture? Nope. Do we realize that our view is essentially very limited? Yeap.
    How do we reconcile with the differences between eras and teachings? We try better and we update our beliefs. That's what Ecumenic synods and the correspondence between the Patriarchates is for. We discuss and try to expand/update our understandings.
    We do not consider the saints and Holy fathers infallible like the Catholics do with the Pope.

    Now, on the main issue: "I don't believe the appeal to authority is very useful in establishing the value of a specific dogma"
    Well, it's a matter of faith. Of course it appeals to authority. I believe things that cannot be proven. That's Faith. I believe them because I believe the people that tried to explained them in the past 2000 years are the least incomplete / least wrong. So, appeal to authority.
    It is not logical, Abdulmecid. It's Faith.


    Quote Originally Posted by Prodromos View Post
    If basics' arguments against Eastern religion are as poor as you say then you should have no trouble refuting them instead of telling him to shut up, no?
    We have. Several times already.

    Quote Originally Posted by Prodromos View Post
    just as I'm sure you wouldn't refer to Protestantism as "Biblical/Apostolic Christianity."
    Which of the many Protestant religions?
    Personally, I refer to most of them as "the heretical approach that stemmed out of disillusionment with the despotism and earthly ambitions of the Catholic church and the views of self-centered theologian that wanted to marry a nun."
    Last edited by alhoon; November 20, 2021 at 04:29 PM.
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  12. #232

    Default Re: Small Orthodox corner

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    Which of the many Protestant religions?
    Personally, I refer to most of them as "the heretical approach that stemmed out of disillusionment with the despotism and earthly ambitions of the Catholic church and the views of self-centered theologian that wanted to marry a nun."
    There you go. If you refuse to refer to our religion as "Biblical/Apostolic Christianity" because you don't accept that it's Biblical/Apostolic, why get angry when we likewise refuse to refer to your religion as "Orthodox Christianity" because we don't consider it orthodox?
    Last edited by Prodromos; November 20, 2021 at 09:16 PM.
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  13. #233
    alhoon's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: Small Orthodox corner

    Quote Originally Posted by Prodromos View Post
    There you go. If you refuse to refer to our religion as "Biblical/Apostolic Christianity" because you don't accept that it's Biblical/Apostolic, why get angry when we likewise refuse to refer to your religion as "Orthodox Christianity" because we don't consider it orthodox?
    1. I don't get angry about it, really.
    2. I didn't get in the Protestant Corner to say that I don't call them Biblical/Apostolic.
    3. I am not even sure which denomination of Protestants call themselves that. My protestant acquaintances call themselves Protestants or by denomination (Baptist, Lutheran, etc.).
    alhoon is not a member of the infamous Hoons: a (fictional) nazi-sympathizer KKK clan. Of course, no Hoon would openly admit affiliation to the uninitiated.
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  14. #234
    basics's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Small Orthodox corner

    alhoon,

    I believe the Biblical expression is, " believe and be baptised....." Mark 16:16. so, how does a baby believe? Don't believe me at all, rather believe what is written. Therefore that is no lie or deception on my part at all.

    No faith is a gift from God and is something that is granted in the process of regeneration which I hope you can testify to personally because that's how Christians are made. Jesus didn't say, " A baby must be born again, " rather, " A man must be born again of the Spirit of God if he is to enter heaven." So what is heretical about that?

    I am not trying to make you a Protestant, rather question you on what you accept against what is written in the Scriptures. Tradition can never be higher than what is written especially if it contradicts what is written and that is why I asked the questions I did. The reason that there was a Reformation was because tradition was replacing the word of God or as Paul was to write the belief in another Jesus, another Spirit, that was not of God. So, I put it to you again, just in plain old writing give me examples of where I am wrong, am lying, am being deceitful?

  15. #235
    alhoon's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: Small Orthodox corner

    Quote Originally Posted by basics View Post
    alhoon,

    I believe the Biblical expression is, " believe and be baptised....." Mark 16:16. so, how does a baby believe? Don't believe me at all, rather believe what is written. Therefore that is no lie or deception on my part at all.
    First, I didn't say you're trying to deceive us. I talked about vanity and pride, no deception. I do believe you actually believe those things you preach. Now, on the matter.

    Mark 16:16 doesn't say what you say. It says that "Whomever is baptized and believes will be Saved."
    So, you need to believe to be Saved as Mark 16:17 says that those that are baptized and don't believe, they will not be Saved. Jesus doesn't say you need to believe at the time of your Baptism. Or that you cannot lose your faith and still be Saved if you find it later.

    Also the context of Mark 16, when Jesus returns to the doubting Apostles while they're eating and chastises them about their doubts is important. He uses strong words because they were doubting His resurrection.

    Anyway. As I said: if you translate Mark 16:16 that way, then you probably have an erroneous translation in your hands which leads you to errors. I believe what it is written and what it is written doesn't necessitate the baby to believe in order to be baptized.

    You say you believe what it is written. I told you what is written, you can check it yourself in a different bible than the one you have.
    So, you can stop with the "Baptism while you're a baby doesn't count" because it does.
    Last edited by alhoon; November 21, 2021 at 04:40 AM.
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  16. #236

    Default Re: Small Orthodox corner

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    1. I don't get angry about it, really.
    2. I didn't get in the Protestant Corner to say that I don't call them Biblical/Apostolic.
    3. I am not even sure which denomination of Protestants call themselves that. My protestant acquaintances call themselves Protestants or by denomination (Baptist, Lutheran, etc.).
    Well, our friend Alexander seemed pretty upset when I referred to his religion as merely Eastern instead of "Eastern Orthodox" or "Orthodox Catholic."

    I don't know a lot of people who'd identify their religion as "Protestantism" in daily life; these days that term is mainly used by sociologists or in interdenominational debates as shorthand for "Christian who isn't Catholic or Orthodox." Like I said, we usually prefer the term Biblical Christianity. If you're going to call us Protestant instead of Biblical Christian, you can't complain when we call you Eastern instead of Orthodox Christian.

    If you don't like the term Eastern and there's another term you'd like me to use, let me know. After all, I'm not trying to insult you, I just can't in good conscience refer to your religion as "the Orthodox Christian faith" when it's so fundamentally heterodox.
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  17. #237
    alhoon's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: Small Orthodox corner

    Quote Originally Posted by Prodromos View Post
    If you don't like the term Eastern and there's another term you'd like me to use, let me know.
    I have no issue at all with you calling us Eastern. Or Eastern Christianity or thinking we're heterodox when we are not.

    Now, about that Biblical Christianity, most Protestants are not Sole Scripture. Methodists, Anglicans and more also believe in Sacred Tradition. "Catholics-lite" as a Protestant friend of mine calls them.
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  18. #238
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    Default Re: Small Orthodox corner

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    I have no issue at all with you calling us Eastern. Or Eastern Christianity or thinking we're heterodox when we are not.

    Now, about that Biblical Christianity, most Protestants are not Sole Scripture. Methodists, Anglicans and more also believe in Sacred Tradition. "Catholics-lite" as a Protestant friend of mine calls them.
    Sola scriptura sound impressive until you realise scripture says "hold fast to the traditions" (I think its in 2 Thessalonians) and specifically mentions the spoken tradition as equal to the written one, and in 1 Corinthians 7:25 Paul specifically distinguishes between commands from the lord and his own opinion, which seems to demolish the "actual unerring word of God" literalists (or so the context and flow would suggest).

    Of course we are right to discuss the thoughts of recent theologians but if we're seeking Christian thought rather than modern innovation, Paul is good enough for me. St John Chrysostom is also useful, I am told. I would not rely on Augustine, he seems a bit Roman and Gnostic.
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  19. #239
    basics's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Small Orthodox corner

    alhoon,

    The erroneous translation I have happens to be the NKJV, the followup to the KJV and nowhere in either does it suggest that the Apostles cover themselves in golden robes and surround themselves with icons and relics as your tradition has become. Neither do they say that baptising babies makes Christians. Indeed the term baptism usually follows belief as a sign that the new believer now belongs to Christ, the water being a shadow and type for the grave which Christ rose up from. So, do all people need to be baptised to be saved? No, why? Because the important thing is that upon being regenerated, born again, that person is indwelt by the Holy Spirit. So, when the Baptist said that he baptised with water but that Jesus would baptise with the Holy Spirit there was obviously quite a difference between the two, how? The first didn't guarantee salvation whereas the latter confirmed it.

    So, why is all this important enough to debate about? Well the Bible lays out that only God saves in a certain pattern. The Father draws a person to Jesus revealing to them what Jesus did on the cross for them. Seeing themselves as being condemned their hearts are broken bringing on the next stage. They seek repentance which only God can grant, so when He sees their brokeness He regenerates their hearts to become a new creature in Christ with Faith as well as the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. That Faith is imputed to them by Jesus Christ and it is important because only by Faith is one Justified. There is nothing else in which a person can be Justified. That's how Christians are made according to God's word.

    Therefore how does a baby go through this procedure to recognise how fallen he or she is? How does a baby know how deep its sin is. If immersion or sprinkling of water was enough why did Jesus have to spill His blood on that cross so that few ever get through that narrow gateway into heaven?

  20. #240
    Sir Adrian's Avatar the Imperishable
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    Default Re: Small Orthodox corner

    Quote Originally Posted by Abdülmecid I View Post
    So, the crux of the matter is how can any Church rely on two millennia of tradition and sainthood, given the fact that the tradition and doctrines in question are often contradictory and in conflict with each other? Overall, I don't believe that the appeal to authority is very useful in establishing the value of a specific dogma.
    The crux of the matter is you have no idea what that tradition really is.

    Saints in Orthodox Christianity are just people who are in heaven. Some of them may be exceptional people, but people nonetheless. Were you an illiterate dung covered peasant, and you managed to achieve theosis through a pious life? Congratulations you are a saint in the Orthodox Church. As such saints are not level 10 wizards or magically infallible people like in Catholicism and some Protestant sects. Saint can and are wrong on a regular basis.

    Orthodox Christianity is not a religion, it is a spiritual how to guide for achieving salvation and living a pious life that is pleasing to God. Saints are important because they're people who made it. Their lives are a practical example of how to do it. Sacred tradition is the entire body of teaching that tells you how to live a Christian life, centered around Jesus and the apostles and the fathers of the church. Tradition is unchanging because God is unchanging and what He wants from us is unchanging. We recognise that people can be, and often are, horribly wrong in their opinions which is why the Orthodox church has maintained the ancient organization of synods. Any and all theological matters are discussed in synods and are predicated exclusively on the idea of not changing tradition specifically to counteract instances like the one you described, where a bunch of important people were wrong.

    Origen is a saint of the church because he is in heaven. He is in heaven because he led a clean pious life, even though he was wrong. Origenism is condemned as a heresy because it implies that the devil can be forgiven and that sinning is ok because everything will be well in the end. It's pretty clear that was not Origen's intention but he really did not think things through, because he was wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Prodromos View Post
    I mean the religion commonly known as "Eastern Orthodox Christianity", also known as the "Orthodox Catholic Church." Of course, since I reject its claim of representing "orthodox Christianity", I won't refer to it by that name -- just as I'm sure you wouldn't refer to Protestantism as "Biblical/Apostolic Christianity."
    You do realize that there are branches of Christianity that even further east than Orthodoxy, right?
    Last edited by Sir Adrian; November 22, 2021 at 07:02 AM.
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