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  1. #1
    Tom Paine's Avatar Mr Common Sense
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    Default Prostitution

    In the light of recent events in Britain, I thought a mature discussion of prostitution and the protection or otherwise of prostitutes themselves was in order. What has transpired around Ipswich is the urder of 5 women; 3 positively identified as people known to be sex workers, and 2 suspected to be women known to be sex workers. That's 5 bodies of prostitutes, if we assume that there are no more to be found and that the 2 who have not been positively IDed are who they are suspected to be. Those are honestly distressing figures. But pretty much forever, workers in the British sex industry (prostitution) have been less protected by law than other women, as though they don't matter:
    Petra Timmermans believes that if social attitudes to prostitutes changed, there would be less risk of such crimes occurring.

    "We decide that some people aren't worth our time and violent people know that," she says.

    Prostitution is a fact of life, she argues, and in order to protect those women and men who engage in it, it should be given equal status to other occupations.

    "We know, for instance, that there is exploitation in the textile industry but we don't scream 'Stop buying clothing' - we talk about labour rights and working conditions," Ms Timmermans says.

    "We need to start talking in that way about prostitution."
    (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/6178793.stm)

    So what should we do about it all? Holland has legalised and regulated prostitution; is that any safer, overall, for instance? What other "coping strategies" are there to protect women, or prevent them turning to this?


    [Disclaimer/Note: I want mature responses to this topic, no flaming and so on please; and if it does start to descend to the level of the previous thread about these killings, moderators, please close it. Thank you.]
    Last edited by Ozymandias; December 14, 2006 at 10:48 AM.

  2. #2
    Carach's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Prostitution

    making prostitution legal because a psycho's on the loose? :/

    dont think so.

    Nothing on this subject needs changing. If there wasnt as much hard drugs in the country there wouldnt be as much prostitution (according to the BBC, 95% of prostitutes are addicted to drugs such as heroin) - no 'habits' to fuel, no need to go out on the streets for it.

    Just because some mental maniac is on the loose killing whores doesnt mean anything needs changing here.

  3. #3
    Tom Paine's Avatar Mr Common Sense
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    Default Re: Prostitution

    Quote Originally Posted by Carach View Post
    making prostitution legal because a psycho's on the loose? :/

    dont think so.

    Nothing on this subject needs changing. If there wasnt as much hard drugs in the country there wouldnt be as much prostitution (according to the BBC, 95% of prostitutes are addicted to drugs such as heroin) - no 'habits' to fuel, no need to go out on the streets for it.

    Just because some mental maniac is on the loose killing whores doesnt mean anything needs changing here.
    What, like maybe they need some protection? They're human too; the current situation forces them into seriously dangerous situations as compared with Amsterdam prostitutes, who work from legitimate brothels, for instance, or areas in Scottish cities which have places specifically for soliciting (but not sex) according to this BBC article. So the current situation needs changing in some respect if only to preserve human life.

  4. #4
    Carach's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Prostitution

    Quote Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
    What, like maybe they need some protection?
    they only go into the 'job' because they doing something illegal in the first place.
    So no, they dont 'need' anything from the authorities.

  5. #5
    Tom Paine's Avatar Mr Common Sense
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    Default Re: Prostitution

    Quote Originally Posted by Carach View Post
    they only go into the 'job' because they doing something illegal in the first place.
    So no, they dont 'need' anything from the authorities.
    Actually many of them go onto drugs while on the job, especially those brought over from Eastern Europe, because it gives their pimps more control. They don't become prostitutes because they're on crack, often it is the reverse.

    And how do their actions stop them deserving basic things like protection of their lives? That's an illogicism!

  6. #6

    Default Re: Prostitution

    Legalised prostitution is a good idea. You will never remove prostitution, and keeping it illegal causes the rise of violent criminals such as pimps and allows for more sordid types of prostitution such as sex slaves and child prostitutions an easier time for operating.

    Legalised and regulated brothels provide safety for both the woman and the customer.

  7. #7
    Biarchus
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    Default Re: Prostitution

    Quote Originally Posted by Sit down, fat dog View Post
    Legalised prostitution is a good idea. You will never remove prostitution, and keeping it illegal causes the rise of violent criminals such as pimps and allows for more sordid types of prostitution such as sex slaves and child prostitutions an easier time for operating.

    Legalised and regulated brothels provide safety for both the woman and the customer.
    I really don't think we should be legislating the legality of something that is so morally bankrupt. I know for sure that a lot of people would rightly raise hell if the government decided to legalize it. It's an all around filthy act that the government should in no way be encouraging.
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  8. #8

    Default Re: Prostitution

    Quote Originally Posted by AMERICARULES View Post
    I really don't think we should be legislating the legality of something that is so morally bankrupt. I know for sure that a lot of people would rightly raise hell if the government decided to legalize it. It's an all around filthy act that the government should in no way be encouraging.
    Yes well you have morals on the one hand and reality on the other.

  9. #9
    God-Emperor of Mankind's Avatar Apperently I protect
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    Default Re: Prostitution

    Legalising prostitution is the best way to go.
    If the state takes care of them they will have protection and union rights and have a good chance off getting out of the trade.
    That most of the prostitues are drug addicts is no suprise considering the pimps force them to take drugs so that they get hooked on the stuff thus forced to stay with the pimp.
    Legalising won't solve the problem completely, there will still be pimps and there will still be women that are forced to do it but it will save alot more women then it does in countries where it is not legal.

  10. #10
    Erik's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Prostitution

    Quote Originally Posted by AMERICARULES View Post
    I really don't think we should be legislating the legality of something that is so morally bankrupt.
    Since when is it the governments job to force morals on us?
    I personally don't see anything wrong with prostitution.
    And if the hooker and the customer don't see anything wrong with it either, then why get the government involved?

    If your going to ban prostitution on moral grounds then you should also ban pop music, swear words, computer games, TV and the internet.
    In fact: that's EXACTLY what the Taliban did in Afghanistan.

    Quote Originally Posted by GrimSta View Post
    Deciminalise prostitution, don't legalise it and don't set up an area like the one in Amsterdam, it just encourages drug dealing - If the gov was to set up a legal prostitution zone with brothels and windows like in Amsterdam we would soon find that there would be people on every street curb trying to sell you ecstacy and cocain, like in Amsterdam.
    What drug free city do you live in?

    Because FYI Amsterdam has one of the LOWEST drug use and FEWEST drug dealers in the western world.
    London is far worst than Amsterdam, for example.

    Quote Originally Posted by the_mango55 View Post
    Which in no way has stopped pimps and street prostitutes.
    This is because there will always be a shortage of women who choose to become prostitutes out of their free will.
    The remaining shortage will always be filled by forced (=illegal) prostitution.
    We have the same problem in Holland.

    Legalizing prostitution reduces forced prostitution, but it can never fully solve it.

    Quote Originally Posted by eurolord View Post
    At least if it is legal, the government can get tax from it.
    That's another reason why I support legalized prostitution.
    Last edited by Erik; December 14, 2006 at 04:18 PM.



  11. #11
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    Default Re: Prostitution

    Quote Originally Posted by Sit down, fat dog View Post
    Legalised prostitution is a good idea. You will never remove prostitution, and keeping it illegal causes the rise of violent criminals such as pimps and allows for more sordid types of prostitution such as sex slaves and child prostitutions an easier time for operating.

    Legalised and regulated brothels provide safety for both the woman and the customer.
    Ditto.

    I really don't think we should be legislating the legality of something that is so morally bankrupt. I know for sure that a lot of people would rightly raise hell if the government decided to legalize it. It's an all around filthy act that the government should in no way be encouraging.
    Thats your opinion an nothoing more. Here in the real world we try to find solutions to underground and often dangerous things like prostitution, the solution would to be legalise it and make it a lot less shady and safter etc.

    the ones brought over from eastern europe are forced into becoming prostitutes... they are victims.
    Thats covered under trafficing.
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  12. #12
    Bwaho's Avatar Puppeteer
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    Default Re: Prostitution

    ban prostitution and hunt down the ones behind it... no sons or daughters of my people are going to be sex slaves.

  13. #13
    Rhah's Avatar S'eer of Fnords
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    Default Re: Prostitution

    Quote Originally Posted by Bwaho View Post
    ban prostitution and hunt down the ones behind it... no sons or daughters of my people are going to be sex slaves.
    The ones behind it? Do you refer to the male population in general, or just the ones that directly profit from it?

    Prostitution truly is the oldest profession in the world, and occurs in every country in the world (whether they admit it or not). Making it a crime has not helped as much as some people would like, and is directly contributing to the unsafe environment that these girls have to work in.
    5 girls died in Britain because they had to walk the streets to make money, rather than doing it in the relative safety of a brothel.
    "Moral indignation is jealousy with a Halo" - H.G. Wells.


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  14. #14
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    Default Re: Prostitution

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhah View Post
    The ones behind it? Do you refer to the male population in general, or just the ones that directly profit from it?

    Prostitution truly is the oldest profession in the world, and occurs in every country in the world (whether they admit it or not). Making it a crime has not helped as much as some people would like, and is directly contributing to the unsafe environment that these girls have to work in.
    5 girls died in Britain because they had to walk the streets to make money, rather than doing it in the relative safety of a brothel.
    Rhah, some people who sit pointing thier moral sticks at those who are failing economically , thus forced into prostitution, will never realise this. Interestingly, these people are often the ones who dont want to poor to be helped with social security etc. Meh, Its a lose lose situation for most of these prostitutes.
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  15. #15
    the_mango55's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: Prostitution

    Making something legal so that you can protect lawbreakers is never a good idea.

    Crack dealers are killed often in America, perhaps we should legalize crack and offer protection to dealers in an organized and well regulated manner.
    ttt
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  16. #16
    Tom Paine's Avatar Mr Common Sense
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    Default Re: Prostitution

    Quote Originally Posted by the_mango55 View Post
    Making something legal so that you can protect lawbreakers is never a good idea.

    Crack dealers are killed often in America, perhaps we should legalize crack and offer protection to dealers in an organized and well regulated manner.
    Who precisely does prostitution harm? Its an interesting thought, that... because the answer, really, is no one. In fact it harms even fewer people in Holland thanks to the strict legal controls on matters like STD checks. We make things illegal not based on morality but based on harm.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Prostitution

    Quote Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
    Who precisely does prostitution harm? Its an interesting thought, that... because the answer, really, is no one. In fact it harms even fewer people in Holland thanks to the strict legal controls on matters like STD checks. We make things illegal not based on morality but based on harm.
    Thank you.

    We should be going the Dutch route, and, as Ozy says, decriminalizing prostitution. Decriminalizing something is not 'legislating morality', it's admitting that sometimes laws do more harm than good, creating criminals out of people who aren't hurting others.
    It's the same argument for decriminalizing drugs, and the same one for decriminalized abortion.[although, in the case of abortion, you can argue that there is a victim.]


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  18. #18
    Carach's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Prostitution

    the ones brought over from eastern europe are forced into becoming prostitutes... they are victims.

    The others that sell their bodies to get drugs are not - its like males robbing home's to supply their drug habits, its illegal, Crime doesnt pay grim (or at least, it shouldnt)

  19. #19

    Default Re: Prostitution

    It seems to many people here are focusing on punishing the prostitutes - who more often than not are already the victims.

  20. #20
    the_mango55's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: Prostitution

    They should be protected as much as any other random citizen, but they also need to have some responsibility and make good decisions. The government can't protect everyone who makes poor choices.
    ttt
    Adopted son of Lord Sephiroth, Youngest sibling of Pent uP Rage, Prarara the Great, Nerwen Carnesîr, TB666 and, Boudicca. In the great Family of the Black Prince

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