Apparent Eruption of Racist and Xenophobic Attacks across the UK

[Copperknickers II]

I think this warrants a separate thread to the EU Referendum debate, not least because the vast majority of both Leave and Remain voters are perfectly decent people with no prejudices against those of immigrant origin. This is a discrete phenomenon which has been given legitimacy by the Leave victory but has now taken terrifying shape.

For those that are not aware, 5 days into Brexit Britain, the UK has been experiencing a monumental explosion of xenophobia, directed not only at Muslims and other non-whites (as has unfortunately been the case for some time), but now also against Poles, Italians, Germans, Spanish, and in one particularly bizarre report, Scots living in England. There barely seems to be anywhere in Britain without multiple reports of immigrants being told to 'pack their bags' or asked 'when are you going home?' by a stranger, and in schools across the country immigrant children have been subjected to jeers, heckles, graffiti and physical attacks by other students who have previously been their friends. And that's at the lowest level. Above that, there have been too many protests to count in town centres and beside motorways with banners saying 'P***s go home', 'begin repatriation', 'make Britain white again', with groups of Neo-Nazis marching through central London and other cities chanting about sending home Poles, and threatening gay people to boot (it being Gay Pride week at the moment). Immigrants of all ages, and indeed native Brits of immigrant origin are being shouted at, threatened, and totally ostracised by neighbours with whom they never had any problems before this week: again I stress, not just Muslims but also Germans, French, Spanish and North Americans. Many thousands of people are scared to go out in the streets. And there have now been several instances of actual violence beyond the schoolyard, most recently a firebomb attack.

To give you an idea of what I am talking about:
http://usuncut.com/world/muslim-butc...e-petrol-bomb/
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entr...b08d2c56396075
https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...tain?CMP=fb_gu
https://www.facebook.com/Post-Ref-Ra...5471743181923/



The incidents are not just confined to majority Leave areas of England but have been reported all over the country, including some of the most pro-Remain areas. My cousin, an Oxford postgrad from the USA, was himself verbally abused by a man who he confronted telling an Indian immigrant to 'go back to his country'. We've already had Jo Cox shot in the broad daylight in the street and I would not be surprised if there were more deaths to follow before the end of the Summer. I am a little worried since I was confused for a Muslim on the grounds of appearance not long ago (in an entirely non-xenophobic context I should say) so I won't be too surprised if I have my own incident to report. Putting the referendum to one side, walking down the street right now in Britain is not a pleasant experience for anyone of non-white appearance, and God help you if you are heard speaking a foreign language: this is not any kind of United Kingdom that I recognise, it's like the Britain that my immigrant grandparents arrived in during the 1950s. If they were alive to see this right now they would be truly heartbroken. I will finish up with this video of what life is like right now for even some white, middle class, Western European immigrants:

http://www.lbc.co.uk/im-so-scared-no...n-tears-132971

[athanaric]

and threatening gay people to boot (it being Gay Pride week at the moment).

So I guess the gay people have to "go home" to Gay Country, then?

[snuggans]

the ultra-nationalist right are at it again

hate crimes against Muslims have been increasing in the US too, it's just terrible really

it seems like they were waiting for the last WW2 veterans to die out before amping up the volume on their movement, i can no doubt guess they are planning for their rahowa

[Cyclops]

Is this confirmed by statistics? If so sad to see my own experiences of English racism be confirmed as a general trend.

I recall one or two fat mouth idiots muttering about blacks and Muslims back in the 1990's when I worked in a pub in London. They never had the guts to actually shout anything out (I find most racists are stupid and cowardly) but they'd scowl at black women or run off at the mouth once the muslims were out of earshot.

I used to call them ugly idiots, they'd say "but you're Australian, you're all racists" as if I was one of them and should be backing them up: they never seemed to understand how contemptible they really were and most people just kept quiet when they had a little rant. One of the blokes turned out to have a Dutch and a Cypriot parent but born in London, and I think he was worried about being picked on so he went on the front foot.

Sad to say I wouldn't be surprised if these reports are evidence of a racist upsurge. Politicians dog whistling racists leads them to prick up their ears and bark, we've had it here too.

[Copperknickers II]

So I guess the gay people have to "go home" to Gay Country, then?

Apparently so. The exact chant was:

'Rule Britannia, Britannia rules the waves,
First we'll get the Poles out, then the gays'.

I'd find it funny if it was not chanted on the same street I used to go down every day, right in the centre of London's theatre district and about the least likely place you'd expect to find a gang of neo-Nazis.

Is this confirmed by statistics? If so sad to see my own experiences of English racism be confirmed as a general trend.

I haven't seen it directly confirmed by statistics, but anecdotally it seems to be on a totally new level to anything that has been seen in living memory. There has been a general upsurge in racist incidents against Jews and non-whites over the past 4 years or so, but this week is the first time I've heard widespread reports of xenophobia against Western Europeans and Americans in the UK.

I recall one or two fat mouth idiots muttering about blacks and Muslims back in the 1990's when I worked in a pub in London.

I don't think I have ever seen any racism myself, at least not among adults, excepting the widespread use of certain racist terms for shops owned by Pakistanis and Chinese people which British forum users will be familiar with. I fear that will change very soon however.

[ABH2]

So after a highly controversial campaign in which Brexit supporters were labeled as racists...there are anecdotes appearing on social media claiming a rise in 'racist and xenophobic attacks.' The media dutifully reports it, but there's no actually way to verify much of any of the reports being passed around. The vandalism and actual attacks are alarming, but no one has actually be caught.

I don't know...color me skeptical that it's not a rise in white nationalism.

I've seen more hoaxes claiming racial violence, threats, or slurs than confirmed reports myself. To note a few:
1. Black churches being burned down, supposedly by racists. Beyond those that were simply misreported, the only guy caught for burning any black church was a black dude
2. Racist graffiti in the driveway of a Seattle families home. Turns out they did it themselves
3. False bomb threat at a BLM event put forward by one of their own in the campus library
4. The Missouri whack job (student president) who claimed the KKK were on campus and he was in contact with the national guard, but was somehow allowed to walk it back without any serious repercussions
5. The writing of a gay slur on a Whole Foods cake
6. Vandalism/trashing of a Seattle African American culture center (whatever the hell that is), perpetrator was a black activist
7. The false claim at the University of Albany that a white student shouted racial slurs and attacked black females on a bus. Turns out they initiated the violence for no real reason

That's just stuff off the top of my head that I've heard of within the last year. All of them were, in initial media reports, tied to the nefarious rise of right wing extremism or racism/homophobia in general. Breitbart has a far longer list of false claims over the years.

There are a number of activists who would gladly invent a story to push this narrative. The media will gladly report it as proof of bigotry of some kind. They will rarely follow-up if its debunked. Said stories are passed along the progressive pipeline to the echo chambers and serve to feed talking points. Among my other personal favorites of late, from America once again, comes from the always misleading Southern Poverty Law Center which claims that there are more hate groups. This gets trumpeted as a rise in extremism even though they bury the fact that it is because the groups themselves are splintering apart - not that membership is increasing.

Anyone who fire bombs a shop or attacks a Mosque is a scumbag. But I'd rather see confirmation that these were in fact done by white extremists and not people motivated by something else or even outright hoaxes.

I am sure some people will accuse me of apologizing for racists or defending neo-Nazis. I could basically copy and paste this post pretty frequently these days.

I'd find it funny if it was not chanted on the same street I used to go down every day, right in the centre of London's theatre district and about the least likely place you'd expect to find a gang of neo-Nazis.

Maybe that should be a warning sign as to the credibility of said claim.

[jockmcplop]

Hate crimes reported to the police have increased 57% according to the National Police Chiefs Council.

There has been an of 57% increase in reporting to True Vision since Friday compared to this time last month (85 reports between Thursday 23 –Sunday 26 June compared with 54 reports the corresponding 4 days four weeks ago.) These figures only take into account reports through one mechanism, reports are also made directly to forces and other community groups like Tell Mama and Community Security so this is not an overall national figure. This should not be read as a national increase in hate crime of 57% but an increase in reporting through one mechanism.

Its hardly a detailed statistic but it is coming from an official source. I'm sure there's much more to come. Some kids were arrested in Manchester for racist abuse on a tram the other day.
Post edited

[juanplay]

ABH2, if you want to support your statement then you must provide proof like copperknickers just did by providing links (like this:http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...land-and-wales) to the appropiate information. Otherwise you will be seen as a supporter or defender of these xenophobes.

[athanaric]

ABH2, if you want to support your statement then you must provide proof like copperknickers just did by providing links (like this:http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...land-and-wales) to the appropiate information. Otherwise you will be seen as a supporter or defender of these xenophobes.

He did provide supporting evidence. It is true that hate crimes of all kinds supposedly committed by neo-Nazis or the "far right" have been faked in recent times, mostly for political gain. There's been several notable cases in Germany over the last year or so alone, for example a shelter for asylum seekers was torched by the Albanian construction firm that was supposed to build it. They blamed it on "Nazis" and everyone fell for it. Again. Don't know if it's that bad in Britain as well, but it wouldn't surprise me if it were.
That's why every report of a hate crime (against anyone) has to be verified and supported with solid evidence, and it's also the reason why I've become so cynical about this. It's what happens when journalists fail to do their job.

[juanplay]

well, when you have dozens of reports appearing in the aftermath of the vote is hard to doubt, especially when several sources (of different ideological origin, like this one: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...n-brexit-vote/) point to it. I asked ABH2 for evidence that such fake reports were happening in Britain, not in the US.

[jockmcplop]

He did provide supporting evidence. It is true that hate crimes of all kinds supposedly committed by neo-Nazis or the "far right" have been faked in recent times, mostly for political gain. There's been several notable cases in Germany over the last year or so alone, for example a shelter for asylum seekers was torched by the Albanian construction firm that was supposed to build it. They blamed it on "Nazis" and everyone fell for it. Again. Don't know if it's that bad in Britain as well, but it wouldn't surprise me if it were.
That's why every report of a hate crime (against anyone) has to be verified and supported with solid evidence, and it's also the reason why I've become so cynical about this. It's what happens when journalists fail to do their job.

Unfortunately, the nature of most of these crimes means that alternative explanations are not really valid.
Kids shouting racist abuse on a tram probably wasn't anything but kids shouting racist abuse on a tram.
Sure, the firebombed shop could have been something other than a racially motivated attack. The timing suggests otherwise, but we can wait on that one.
The 57% rise since last month in hate crime reported through one mechanism (in the absence of statistics on other mechanisms because its only been 5 days since the referendum) is telling though. These reports are not coming out of nowhere.
Sure, we wait and see what gets confirmed in the future.

Its interesting to see which people say "wait and see" when its right wing badness and which people say "wait and see" when its muslim badness.
Its never the same people.

[ABH2]

well, when you have dozens of reports appearing in the aftermath of the vote is hard to doubt, especially when several sources (of different ideological origin, like this one: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...n-brexit-vote/) point to it. I asked ABH2 for evidence that such fake reports were happening in Britain, not in the US.

I'm sorry, but how many perpetrators of any crimes or incidents have been identified and/or caught? Also, you did not specify proof about fake reports in Britain, but nor do I see the relevancy to it. I'm not from Britain and I don't follow the news there. But beyond that, is the claim that British are so inherently different that leftwing activists and others wouldn't use PC culture for their own gain?

Unfortunately, the nature of most of these crimes means that alternative explanations are not really valid.

This doesn't even make sense. I could find dozens of mainstream articles after the Charleston shootings claiming that there was a rise an ominous rise in black church fires all parroting the same bit on right wing extremism. The same statement here could have been given based on those reports, and yet there was absolutely nothing to them.

It is entirely possible that some or all of these attacks are legitimate. Jumping to that conclusion instantly is a reflection of bias. It's akin to jumping to the conclusion of an individuals guilt instantly without evidence.

The 57% rise since last month in hate crime reported through one mechanism (in the absence of statistics on other mechanisms because its only been 5 days since the referendum) is telling though. These reports are not coming out of nowhere.

With one statistic, there is a 57% rise. That is all of 30 reports. A report isn't the same as confirmation something happened, and more importantly, your article provides a measly two month sample size.
https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...6/hosb0515.pdf

On page 11 there there is a monthly chart of 'hate crimes' or rather 'offenses' issued by the UK government. It demonstrates just how these things naturally fluctuate month to month, and they are working from far larger numbers. By comparison, you have one metric showing a rise in 30 reported cases of unspecified events events. And only a two month sample. There's nothing to compare it to to see how that number naturally rises and falls over time.

What I see is a lot of stuff being thrown at the wall in a flurry. I mean, if there's a whole bunch of shoddy reports, that must mean some of them are legit? No, it doesn't work that way. Each piece of data has to stand on its own, and little of this holds up.

[fkizz]

lucky or not, was in the UK, experienced no racism

[jockmcplop]

This doesn't even make sense. I could find dozens of mainstream articles after the Charleston shootings claiming that there was a rise an ominous rise in black church fires all parroting the same bit on right wing extremism. The same statement here could have been given based on those reports, and yet there was absolutely nothing to them.

It is entirely possible that some or all of these attacks are legitimate. Jumping to that conclusion instantly is a reflection of bias. It's akin to jumping to the conclusion of an individuals guilt instantly without evidence.

I was talking about the UK crimes, it makes perfect sense. Unless you think these kids were a construction company that just blamed right wingers for shouting abuse at muslims on a train.

[Roma_Victrix]

Sounds disturbing, hope it's not part of a much larger trend than depicted in the OP. I disagree with the Leave crowd, but I refuse to believe any large percentage of them are actual racists or worse: people willing to act violently on their racist beliefs, targeting and terrorizing ethnic minorities. England once expelled all the Jews in the country back in the 13th century, but invited them back in the 17th century. Are they gearing up for expulsion round number 2? This time with Muslims and Poles?

[Cyclops]

I haven't seen it directly confirmed by statistics, but anecdotally it seems to be on a totally new level to anything that has been seen in living memory. There has been a general upsurge in racist incidents against Jews and non-whites over the past 4 years or so, but this week is the first time I've heard widespread reports of xenophobia against Western Europeans and Americans in the UK.

Practically every English person I talked too made negative comments about the French (weirdly enough sometimes while fondly remembering working holidays in the South picking grapes and conducting affairs with French girls). I had a quite lefty school teacher tell me that the French teachers on school trips to England would encourage their children to misbehave and shield them from consequences.

I don't think I have ever seen any racism myself, at least not among adults, excepting the widespread use of certain racist terms for shops owned by Pakistanis and Chinese people which British forum users will be familiar with. I fear that will change very soon however.

Work in a pub mate, you will learn a lot about human nature. I reckon every psychology student should be a bartender for a year, you see people trot in all proper and polite, and bit by bit they pull their own faces off and you see what's underneath. You're practically invisible until they want a pint, and you see what they say to people's faces, what they say when the person walks away, and what they tell their friends they said.

I recall a beaut group from the East End, two fellas and sometimes the wives. They were honest, friendly and were never two faced or racist, except to me about being an Aussie which was clearly intended as good natured teasing (I offered them soap in return, Aussies have a racist slur on the English that they never wash). They were the exception. Just a side note, I met one lovely woman who said "I only wash once a month whether I need it or not." he was a very clean vegetarian, so she didn't reek, it was just a shock to hear someone say that as we pretend all the English do.

There is a difference between blowing of a little steam or talking nonsense with your mates, and a concerted campaign to denigrate people for perceived race. We have embedded racism in Australia and its not funny (I have family in Queensland and the prevalent attitude up there to black people is a disgrace). I was shocked by how racist the attitudes of the English I met were, and I feel like I saw them in a truthful state.

[jockmcplop]

Casual racism is indeed embedded in English culture, and its not going away soon. What is shocking to me is how overt and aggressive this has become. There have always been racist incidents, but to me it seems as if the EU exit has made some people feel like they now have permission to go tell a Polish person to off.
Its not right.

[Roma_Victrix]

Casual racism is indeed embedded in English culture, and its not going away soon. What is shocking to me is how overt and aggressive this has become. There have always been racist incidents, but to me it seems as if the EU exit has made some people feel like they now have permission to go tell a Polish person to off.
Its not right.

Holy crap, I may have to revise my statement above. What the hell is going on in the UK? I can't believe something like this happened:

http://www.lbc.co.uk/im-so-scared-no...1hhvWUIinVCvXH

Jesus, this isn't about White nationalism at all. The lady is German. It seems like this is about unadulterated, 100% pure concentrated English ubernationalism rearing its ugly head. Looks like they just hate everyone equally now, so long as they're not true-blue-blooded Englishmen, born and raised! Casual racism is all fine and dandy to an extent, but this is revolting.

[jockmcplop]

Yeah you can't generalize this to white supremacists or white anything at all. Its pure English rage directed at every single person who isn't English. The extent of it is an unknown at the moment, it might just be a few well publicized events, but it certainly sounds ominous, and I don't buy the theory that its just lefties making stuff up for attention. I've seen the casual racism bubbling under the surface, and from there it can go either way, and this referendum seems to have pushed at least *some* people right over the edge.
In my department at work there is a Polish lady and an Italian lady and although neither of them have been attacked they both say they have felt a tangible change in the way people speak to them. Of course, that might be psychosomatic but seriously the country needs to get a grip.
We could have done fine in the wake of the referendum if everyone had just carried on as normal but it isn't just the racism, the whole country seems to have lost it in many different ways. I don't know if its because suddenly the world is watching and we're not used to that or what.
Get a grip England.

[mongrel]

He did provide supporting evidence. It is true that hate crimes of all kinds supposedly committed by neo-Nazis or the "far right" have been faked in recent times, mostly for political gain. There's been several notable cases in Germany over the last year or so alone, for example a shelter for asylum seekers was torched by the Albanian construction firm that was supposed to build it. They blamed it on "Nazis" and everyone fell for it. Again. Don't know if it's that bad in Britain as well, but it wouldn't surprise me if it were.
That's why every report of a hate crime (against anyone) has to be verified and supported with solid evidence, and it's also the reason why I've become so cynical about this. It's what happens when journalists fail to do their job.

His evidence was irrelevant, the UK is not part of the United States (yet).

I would say this , it didn't help that Cameron himself endorsed a racist campaign against the London Mayor just months prior.

Didn't we see an example of this casual racism on TWC when Boyar's Son commented on David Lammy's proposal to halt Brexit? Perhaps the forum could deal with its own as well as commenting on the rest.

Heh, I guess democracy was good enough when he was elected but not when the "stupid masses" choose something their new MP doesn't like. ing hell he's black too, surprise. As the son of African migrants it's his duty to conform to the culture of the host country and accept western democracy that the British installed before him, or he can off back to Africa where he can play despot there.