Clearing Up Misconceptions about IRAN

[Fardin]

I want a fair and good and polite debate about Islam and Iran's politics.with reasons and without insulting our countries and religions.
If any one is ready just inform me!Ask everything you found wrong about Shia Islam and Iran.But if you do not know any thing about Islam and Iran And you have just watched TV and news and of course super hero movies please be quiet and study more about Islam and Iran or at least the links I gave to the other guys!

I am really proud of you brother fardin for writing this.Great job man.

Thanks Bro!

[Exarch]

the iranians keep promising to wipe israel off the map but every day i look at google earth and i still see israel on the map.

what gives?

[Fardin]

the iranians keep promising to wipe israel off the map but every day i look at google earth and i still see israel on the map.

what gives?

If we wanted we would do it right now with our missiles but we do not target innocent people unlike other countries who claim the freedom and Human rights. when we say we'll wipe off Israel we mean the government and same for other countries.Those lands you see on the google earth belongs to the Palestinians who were forced to leave their Homes and lands.Islam forbids conquering lands.

[Fardin]

My mother is origianlly from Iran, whose family left during the revolution to the west. I am wondering, if things have turned to the better than they once were. Years of forced isolation and hateful speech against western values which are returning slowly despite the so called 'islamic' revolution. My country is getting political refugees, not only from Syria, Afghanistan but also Iran, still today. Making a thread about how wonderful things are going politically is just a farce.
I accept Iran is to a degree better than Saudi Arabia and most states in the middle east. But coming here and telling me that Irans political parties are freely elected is a joke.
If I came back tomorrow to Iran and wanted to start a political party rejecting Islamic and theological leadership, which ruined the once most powerful country in the middle east, I would be a political prisoner.

Most of the people who fled Iran have your opinion but the poor people who remained in Iran had tasted the dictators oppressions.Rich class of society were Opposed to Revolution because they had nothing to do with protests because of their full bellies.You say electing in Iran is a joke so what's your proof?
that 8 years of war ruined the country not the leadership.You said powerful Iran You mean from the military aspect?That dictator sold the country to the west to Gain some chaffy reputation so when he fled before revolution no country supported him because he was not useful anymore! Do you know what is capitulation? Just read about Iran in WW1 and WW2!Do you know many people died because of the famine that the soviet and British and USA soldiers brought to us?9 million people just in WW2.Do you know how many women from my country raped by western soldiers and we could not even punish them because of the capitulation law?But now no country dares to attack Iran.We have learned from the history and we will make sure it won't happen again.Iran already is the most powerful country in the region!How you can compare the power of Iran with middle east?you think that Arabs and Pakistan is stronger than Iran?If they were strong they would have prevented those terrorists who are walking freely in their countries.
And I won't deny that you'll go to jail for that reason you said.

Go see the ranking of Iran's army!But I must say It's the ranking of regular Armies and it does not Include IRGC.The IRGC is ten times bigger and more powerful than IRI Army.

[Roboute Guilliman]

Most of the people who fled Iran have your opinion but the poor people who remained in Iran had tasted the dictator.Rich class of society were Opposed to Revolution.You say electing in Iran is a joke so what's your proof?
that 8 years of war ruined the country not the leadership.You said powerful Iran You mean from the military aspect?That dictator sold the country to the west to Gain some chaffy reputation so when he fled before revolution no country supported him because he was not useful anymore! Go see the ranking of Iran's army!But I must say It's the ranking of regular Armies and it does not Include IRGC.The IRGC is ten times bigger and more powerful than IRI Army.

Iranian army. Lol. Everybody in the region is using better equipment, because they can buy it from western and Russian allies. Irans military is the same it was 30 years ago, because they got no strong allies. Why? Because the leadership are a bunch of trolls. And tell me please, who intentionally weakened the Shahs army during the revolution out of fear? You were just begging for Saddam, who had an eye on Iran, to invade. The Shah left because he maybe didn't want to harm the people with a bloody civil war. I am not going into Mullah war tactics, like children playing minesweeper.

I know plenty of Iranians, who are doing everything to get an EU citizenship. Says a lot about the current state.

You live in the shadow of the country it once was, destroyed by illiterate fools and call it great now. Being a western ally doesn't make you a puppet state. But when I see Iranian presidents rambling off about foreign policy and describing the west, it has a lot of similarity with the muppet show.

[Fardin]

Iranian army. Lol. Everybody in the region is using better equipment, because they can buy it from western and Russian allies. Irans military is the same it was 30 years ago, because they got no strong allies. Why? Because the leadership are a bunch of trolls. And tell me please, who intentionally weakened the Shahs army during the revolution out of fear? You were just begging for Saddam, who had an eye on Iran, to invade. The Shah left because he maybe didn't want to harm the people with a bloody civil war. I am not going into Mullah war tactics, like children playing minesweeper.

I know plenty of Iranians, who are doing everything to get an EU citizenship. Says a lot about the current state.

You live in the shadow of the country it once was, destroyed by illiterate fools and call it great now. Being a western ally doesn't make you a puppet state. But when I see Iranian presidents rambling off about foreign policy and describing the west, it has a lot of similarity with the muppet show.

What do you mean by better equipment?Because we do not make films it does not mean we do not have good equipments.If you know farsi I'll send you some links to see Iran's equipments.what do you mean by begging Saddam?
Shah left the Iran to avoid a civil war??that was really funny. do you his prime minister who stayed in Iran killed how many of Iranians by barrage of bullets?Just study about what happened in 15 Khordad of 1342.
The west's propaganda affect both Iranians and the foreigners.Some of Iranians think that there is heaven beyond the walls but they do not know there is nothing more there but free sexual relationships and foreigners think Iran is nothing but slums.Iranian president Rouhani is a complete idiot who trusted the west.we did all we had to do in the pact but they did not do even one single positive move.
The story of Iran is just like the Libya and that idiot Ghazzafi! He trusted the west and gave his nuclear power to get rid of sanctions but nothing happened after that.some months later they said give up your missiles and military power so we'll remove sanctions and that idiot did it again but nothing changed.some years later west unleashed chaos in Libya then they are killing each other till now!And of course the western governments are looting their oil easily now!These events will happen in Iran if this president remains on power.

I said to every one ask what's wrong with Iran and they asked and I answered.
I've edited the recent post of mine read it again

[Abdülmecid I]

The Iraqi invasion did indeed help the radical clergy to remain in power. But I can't see why this is the fault of Khomeini. The Iraqis invaded with the intention of violating at least the Algiers Accords, which were ironically negotiated by Saddam himself (back then, Saddam was not the absolute ruler of Iraq) and Iran had every right to defend its territorial sovereignty. True, as it always happens in these cases, the radical revolutionaries were strengthened, when faced a common foreign aggressor, in spite of Saddam's wishful thinking that Iran would immediately collapse. But again, Iran is not to be blamed for the Iraqi leadership's complete inability to properly estimate the internal olitical affairs of Iran.

The Shah left because he maybe didn't want to harm the people with a bloody civil war.

Oh, that is golden. Well, the Shah apparently was not so scared about the possibility of a civil war, when he overthrew Mosaddegh or when he imprisoned and tortured everyone belonging to the opposition, from communists and liberals to Shia fundamentalists, for daring to disapprove of his tyrannical tactics. Could it be because during these events, there was not the most massive revolution ever recorded going on, which presented to the Shah the somewhat worrying prospect of sharing the fate of his SAVAK chiefs? Reza Pahlavi ran for his life, which was the most sensible thing to do or otherwise he would have been arrested and judged for his crimes against the Iranian people.

If I came back tomorrow to Iran and wanted to start a political party rejecting Islamic and theological leadership, which ruined the once most powerful country in the middle east, I would be a political prisoner.

Modern Iran was never the most powerful state in the Middle East, not even under the Shah. But even if it was, why does it matter? People justifiably tend to care more about their quality of life, democratic elections and protection from the para-military activities of the secret police. Being given that, despite the most sincere efforts of the Assembly of Experts and the Guardian Council, all these aspects have been radically improved since the times of the Shah, I understand why the vast majority of the Iranians despise the imperial regime.

[Roboute Guilliman]

My mother is origianlly from Iran, whose family left during the revolution to the west. I am wondering, if things have turned to the better than they once were. Years of forced isolation and hateful speech against western values which are returning slowly despite the so called 'islamic' revolution. My country is getting political refugees, not only from Syria, Afghanistan but also Iran, still today. Making a thread about how wonderful things are going politically is just a farce.
I accept Iran is to a degree better than Saudi Arabia and most states in the middle east. But coming here and telling me that Irans political parties are freely elected is a joke.
If I came back tomorrow to Iran and wanted to start a political party rejecting Islamic and theological leadership, which ruined the once most powerful country in the middle east, I would be a political prisoner.

[empr guy]

Haha what? The Iranian army no doubt has great morale, but their equipment is mostly whatever they bought off the Americans in the 70's, Soviet stuff or their knock off versions of soviet stuff. I'm sure the infantry stuff works great but the tanks, air craft, and navy would be considered antiques everywhere else.


Also going back to my previous question, let's say that I accept "Mohammad only conquered in self defense". But what is the theological basis for conquest being forbidden in the first place?

[Roboute Guilliman]

Please keep the curtains closed then by voting the next religious nut job in your free elections. You get what you deserve.

[Condottiere 40K]

If Iran had free and fair elections elections, the clergy as an institution would be kicked out of power and the Revolutionary Guard would find itself dissolved, or volunteered in it's entirety to the Syrian struggle.

[Fardin]

Iran's stealth fighter.






Iranian Sniper rifles



Fastest Armed boats in the world(80knots)


Fateh assault rifle






under ground missile silos


Iranian RQ 170
I know it's not related to this thread but I thought this was a misconseption too.

[Fardin]

Also going back to my previous question, let's say that I accept "Mohammad only conquered in self defense". But what is the theological basis for conquest being forbidden in the first place?

Your definition is close to reality.Conquests is forbidden but you are allowed: 1.when any country attacks you.you have the right to attack that country and eliminate it's government 2.when a non muslim country attacks a muslim country you have the right to eliminate it's government 3.when a non muslim country oppresses the other muslims you have the right to eliminate it's government.And attacking civilians and looting and forcing them to Islam is forbidden according to Mr.Khamenei's Fatwa(order) and Orders of God in Quran.
If you want to know more I'll bring the exact part that this is mentioned in Quran.

[athanaric]

I always get surprised by those who claim to enlightenment, but they do not feel ashamed when they insult the beliefs of others

We respect individual human beings, not beliefs or groups. We "believe" only in things that can be proven and understood. Religious and/or political belief, on the other hand, is just an excuse for people to act out their worst instincts. The evidence suggests that all religions and gods were invented by men, not the other way round.

Anyway, why do you feel the need to believe in an invisible Arab in the sky? Are you familiar with how Islam was introduced in Iran, or does the IRI school curriculum skip that part of history?

[zarmehr]

We respect individual human beings, not beliefs or groups. We "believe" only in things that can be proven and understood. Religious and/or political belief, on the other hand, is just an excuse for people to act out their worst instincts. The evidence suggests that all religions and gods were invented by men, not the other way round.

Anyway, why do you feel the need to believe in an invisible Arab in the sky? Are you familiar with how Islam was introduced in Iran, or does the IRI school curriculum skip that part of history?

Oh But your words and words of persons who insulting clears many things.People like you think they know every culture and every belief better than the others.It is funny,I mean that human rights you follow it.How funny questioning Islamic revolutionary of iran doesnt make any problem but asking a simple question about the legend of holocaust is human rights violations.In the mean time,America and European countries dont have any right to judge Iran or any Muslem nations about human rights.Notice that palestinians are not guilty because of the great myth of Holocaust and This wasnt muslems that nuked Hiroshima and nagasaki.And this wasnt muslems that helped saddam with chemical weapons.Even today,They support Isis and gives anti tank deplated Uranium bullets to them so that they can use against innocent people.And yet you see in medias this is islamic world that have to be responsible in case of human rights to the west.This is rediciulous.I'm asking you do not judge Iran and specially islam by Western medias.

[Fardin]

We respect individual human beings, not beliefs or groups. We "believe" only in things that can be proven and understood. Religious and/or political belief, on the other hand, is just an excuse for people to act out their worst instincts. The evidence suggests that all religions and gods were invented by men, not the other way round.

Anyway, why do you feel the need to believe in an invisible Arab in the sky? Are you familiar with how Islam was introduced in Iran, or does the IRI school curriculum skip that part of history?

We know our history far better than you!As I said before the false successors of the prophet made those horrible mistakes.
We accepted Islam because it was a perfect religion for the human beings.
I said I want a fair and polite debate.If you want to do it so please do not insult.

[athanaric]

We know our history far better than you!

I doubt that. I studied it, as did several other people on this forum.

As I said before the false successors of the prophet made those horrible mistakes.

I think it was rather Mohammad and his friends who hated Iran and Iranians. They provided the excuses and "justification" for those atrocities.

We accepted Islam because it was a perfect religion for the human beings.

And because the bearers of the same perfect religion murdered, raped, and enslaved your countrymen until the rest of them submitted.

I said I want a fair and polite debate.If you want to do it so please do not insult.

I haven't insulted anyone yet, except perhaps those who teach history in Iran. Things that don't exist can't be insulted.

[Fardin]

I doubt that. I studied it, as did several other people on this forum.

I have read dozens of books about it.you can not claim that!and they are already in my library.so please...

I think it was rather Mohammad and his friends who hated Iran and Iranians. They provided the excuses and "justification" for those atrocities.

I accept that the Arabs hated Iran because they were colonies of Iranian Empires for many years.But the Prophet and Imam Ali are different from them. they had some companions and friends of Iranians like Salman Farsi who helped the Prophet in "Ahzab" war with battle plans.And Ghanbar who was a slave that Imam Ali liberated him and then he became his friend and companion.

And because the bearers of the same perfect religion murdered, raped, and enslaved your countrymen until the rest of them submitted.

yes yes, you are right. we hate those who did it and we are fallowing the one who stopped it(Imam Ali). We discovered the real Islam from his actions and behaviors towards people.The Arabs who conquered Iran used to call and humiliate Iranians with "Ajam" word but Imam Ali said: All of the humans are equal to God and banned these things.
So we know some history.
here you can find out more about our first Imam: http://en.wikishia.net/view/Imam_%27..._Talib_%28a%29

I haven't insulted anyone yet, except perhaps those who teach history in Iran. Things that don't exist can't be insulted.

You said:The evidence suggests that all religions and gods were invented by men, not the other way round.
You mean our Prophet is a liar and a pretender.OK then what's your proof and evidence?

[athanaric]

the iranians keep promising to wipe israel off the map but every day i look at google earth and i still see israel on the map.

what gives?

Yep.
0/10 disappoint.

You said:The evidence suggests that all religions and gods were invented by men, not the other way round.
You mean our Prophet is a liar and a pretender.OK then what's your proof and evidence?

It's always the same story: a man (I'm not aware of women doing that, interestingly. Maybe they're not important to the gods?) claims to have received some kind of message from some god, instructing his followers and making the new "prophet" rich and powerful in the process. Of course, everything these prophets teach (supposedly God's word) only conforms to their own educational background. Take Mohammad, or Joseph Smith, or L. Ron Hubbard. In fact, I suspect that all religions, including Judaism and Christianity, were founded this way. The recurring pattern is just too obvious. The difference is that some are more aggressive than others.

Oh But your words and words of persons who insulting clears many things.People like you think they know every culture and every belief better than the others.It is funny,I mean that human rights you follow it.How funny questioning Islamic revolutionary of iran doesnt make any problem but asking a simple question about the legend of holocaust is human rights violations.In the mean time,America and European countries dont have any right to judge Iran or any Muslem nations about human rights.

Our human rights record is far from perfect, but it's still better than yours.

Notice that palestinians are not guilty because of the great myth of Holocaust

Historically, some Palestinians were involved in the Holocaust, but anyway they are of course only guilty of their own deeds, like everyone else. Also, why do you care more about Palestinians and Israel than about fellow Iranians like Kurds or Tajiks and the persecution they are facing?

and This wasnt muslems that nuked Hiroshima and nagasaki.And this wasnt muslems that helped saddam with chemical weapons.

No, but it's Muslims - including some Iranians - who are invading my country and a few others beside under the guise of "seeking refuge from persecution", and are leading the current crime statistics percentage wise in almost every category.

Even today,They support Isis and gives anti tank deplated Uranium bullets to them so that they can use against innocent people.

Who does? Certainly not Western countries.

And yet you see in medias this is islamic world that have to be responsible in case of human rights to the west.This is rediciulous.I'm asking you do not judge Iran and specially islam by Western medias.

I'm judging people and groups of people by their deeds. And so far, the Islamic Republic of Iran has killed, tortured, raped, or exiled many good Iranians.

Yes,but we are not Arabs.

Exactly, so what's your problem with Israel?

[zarmehr]

Yep.
0/10 disappoint.


It's always the same story: a man (I'm not aware of women doing that, interestingly. Maybe they're not important to the gods?) claims to have received some kind of message from some god, instructing his followers and making the new "prophet" rich and powerful in the process. Of course, everything these prophets teach (supposedly God's word) only conforms to their own educational background. Take Mohammad, or Joseph Smith, or L. Ron Hubbard. In fact, I suspect that all religions, including Judaism and Christianity, were founded this way. The recurring pattern is just too obvious. The difference is that some are more aggressive than others.


Our human rights record is far from perfect, but it's still better than yours.


Historically, some Palestinians were involved in the Holocaust, but anyway they are of course only guilty of their own deeds, like everyone else. Also, why do you care more about Palestinians and Israel than about fellow Iranians like Kurds or Tajiks and the persecution they are facing?


No, but it's Muslims - including some Iranians - who are invading my country and a few others beside under the guise of "seeking refuge from persecution", and are leading the current crime statistics percentage wise in almost every category.


Who does? Certainly not Western countries.


I'm judging people and groups of people by their deeds. And so far, the Islamic Republic of Iran has killed, tortured, raped, or exiled many good Iranians.


Exactly, so what's your problem with Israel?

I am really sorry dude.you are brainwashed by medias.It doesnt matter everything i say to you,you wont believe and accept it.you think all of your informations are true,for example raping and killing iranians by the government(I am an iranian and believe me,this is a joke that you said,thank you for that)Do you really think israel is an innocent angel that camed from skay? If you interested in why iran helps hezbollah and palestinian resistance groups and have serious problems with existence of Israel you can see this site:http://www.purestream-media.com/