Clearing Up Misconceptions about IRAN

[Fardin]

Ali seems a lot more like the Messiah than Mohammad. Just saying...

I'd vote for him.

Imam Ali was the walking Islam and Quran,he is our life pattern.We try to act and be like him.
our prophet is one of the most misunderstood men in the history.soon I will open a thread about misconceptions of Islam too.

[Infidel144]

you have got yourself out of a conversation that you started with Zarmehr and Heidar.look at the page 8 of my thread

Not sure what you mean here.
On page 8 I asked you:

OK!I'll prove it to you.
1. Our Prophet was illiterate before he was chosen by God.So he could not write such a perfect book like Quran.

How do you know Muhammad was illiterate?


zarmehr replied with some nonsense questioning why I should ask and if I read history.
He did not actually answer the question.
Heidar made a long post intending to prove the quran is from God, however I do not know that it was intended for me or my question (he did not reference me nor quote my query) If it was intended as a response to my question, then it still did not answer my question.

[Fardin]

Not sure what you mean here.
On page 8 I asked you:

How do you know Muhammad was illiterate?


zarmehr replied with some nonsense questioning why I should ask and if I read history.
He did not actually answer the question.
Heidar made a long post intending to prove the quran is from God, however I do not know that it was intended for me or my question (he did not reference me nor quote my query) If it was intended as a response to my question, then it still did not answer my question.

I meant you accuse me to misleading questions because you have the experience in doing that.
as Heidar asked:do you accept that is from the god or not?
if you answer to my question,I will answer to yours.

[Infidel144]

I meant you accuse me to misleading questions because you have the experience in doing that.

Still don't understand. You made a statement (Muhammad=illiterate). I asked 'how do you know that?'. There is nothing misleading about that.

as Heidar asked:do you accept that is from the god or not?
if you answer to my question,I will answer to yours.

Do I accept that the quran is from God?
1). There is no relevance to the question.
2). I'm not a muslim, so no, I don't accept that the quran comes from some invisible sky being.

[Fardin]

Still don't understand. You made a statement (Muhammad=illiterate). I asked 'how do you know that?'. There is nothing misleading about that.

in the other thread

Do I accept that the quran is from God?
1). There is no relevance to the question.
2). I'm not a muslim, so no, I don't accept that the quran comes from some invisible sky being.

According to the every historian of that era there were only 17 men and 1 woman in Mecca were able to read and write and our prophet wasn't one of them.
what do you have to say about those Ayat that Heidar posted? I can bring you more if you really seek the truth but if you just want to blame or... just tell me.
God is not only in sky,he is closer to you than your veins

[zarmehr]

Not sure what you mean here.
On page 8 I asked you:

How do you know Muhammad was illiterate?


zarmehr replied with some nonsense questioning why I should ask and if I read history.
He did not actually answer the question.
Heidar made a long post intending to prove the quran is from God, however I do not know that it was intended for me or my question (he did not reference me nor quote my query) If it was intended as a response to my question, then it still did not answer my question.

Because I didnt found any sources in English for your question and It can be better for us that fardin dont get involve religious matters in this thread.its even harder to discuss both misconceptions about Iran and Islam with people like you man and because of lake of Eng sources in some cases and it takes time if i try to translate them for you.Actually this question you asked about illiteracy of our prophet is one of simplest.The truth is Muhammad (ص) was not illiterate but he was an (Ommy person/اُمی) that means he never Educate and never write or read any paper before he was chosen by Allah.We use word (Ommy/اُمی) because there is no equivalent for the word (Ommy/اُمی) in English and it doesnt mean being illiterate. It means "he didnt educate at any school(or whatever you think)"that is an implication of word (Ommy/اُمی).In fact Muhammad (ص) did not write or read anything in front of people till Revelation time.Of course there is no accompaniment among not going to school and illiteracy.It is true that the conventional way of acquiring knowledge is educating,But the science of Muhammad (ص) has not been achieved by this conventional method.Our sayyed (ص) achived his Knowledge through revelation that is the perfect way(However,The West philosophy wont accept revelation or other ways like that).Due to these conditions,Issued book like Quran of the uneducated prophet (ص) is nothing but a miracle.

بِسمِ اللهِ الرَحمنِ الرَحیم
(29:48)َوَ مَا كُنتَ تَتْلُواْ مِن قَبْلِهِ مِن كِتَابٍ وَ لَا تخَُطُّهُ بِيَمِينِكَ إِذًا لاَّرْتَابَ الْمُبْطِلُون

You had not been reciting any book previously nor did you copy it down with your right hand; otherwise quibblers would suspect it.(29:48 )

[Infidel144]

Islam forbids starting a conflict without the conditions that Fardin stated before.
we kill our enemies whether they are infidel or not.you do the same.there is no shame in that!

What I replied to was zarmehr stating "I am telling you that islam has forbidden killing people or every barbaric act you think."
I quoted two verses (9:5 and 9:29) which permit the killing of those who do not believe and allow the continued killing of these unbelievers until they convert, or, for the people of the Book, altenatively submit and pay the jizya. Permitting is the opposite of zarmehr's claim of forbidding.
Whether or not it is shameful or that I do the same or not is irrelevant. I maade no claims about the action or myself.

Christians and Jews are living peacefully in Iran and they have the similar rights like the other muslim Iranians.we do the same to the other religions as well.

Just similar rights? Not the same rights?
Do these Jews and Christians submit to rule of Muslims?

the translation is wrong.the correct one is:Believers, do not take the Jews and Christians as friends. They are allies with one another. Whoever of you takes them as an friends shall become one of them. God does not guide the wrongdoers.

Interesting:
"O you who have faith!
Do not take the Jews and the Christians for allies:
they are allies of each other.
Any of you who allies with them
is indeed one of them.
Indeed Allah does not guide the wrongdoing lot."
A Shia translation, if I am not mistaken. Is Sayyid 'Ali Quli Qara'i incompetent?
And odd also that you leave the second use of 'allies' without changing it to 'friends'.
In the event: awliya (pl.), waliyy (sing.) = helpers, friends, allies, patrons, legal guardians

and this obligation is not decisive,I mean it's not a must it is a should.

So when Allah says la tattakhidhu it is not an imperative prohibition?
Rather it is merely a suggestion?

the prophet has the same hadith.

An assertion.

as I said to the Col.Tartleton that every era has its own traits in that time the other people from every part of the world used to do the worse.but Islam banned torturing in every reason.

Interesting.
So what I quoted: 5:33 "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter;"
Are you claiming that crucifixion and cutting off of hands and feet on opposite sides is torture?

this Ayah was revealed when the prophet sent some very ill Jews who had declared to be muslims to the pasture of the government's camels that had a good weather and ordered to help them get better but after the time they got healed they killed camel drivers and stole all herds of camels.

Jews? Now, I have read the quran, and sira, various hadith, tafsir, histories, apologists etc. over time for some thirty odd years or so, and so perhaps I have forgotten something or missed something, but I don't ever recall it being claimed that the bedouin Banu Ukl/Uraynah were Jews.

there are some persons who update Islam,we call them "Marja' Taghlid".and they've banned cutting heads,hands and legs now.
They have studied the feqh.I think there are 29 Marja' Taghlid in shia Islam not just in Iran.

Are these punishments not mandated by Allah himself, and thus among the best punishments for those who strive for mischief in the land?
Is the Quran not eternal and flawless?
Allah's edicts, as recited by Prophet Muhammad, and written down can be updated and banned by these Ayatollahs?

'm sorry,a little mistake,as you said it was 5:82 and i'll fix it.

Happens.

But what were you conclude about this aya is a sophistry and misleading.

Really?

The appearance of Verses points to Ethiopians but its not true to say personal impressions and commentary of yours about ayas of Quran.

What is not true about it? You admit it points to the Ethiopians. Did these Christian Ethiopians not convert to Islam after hearing the Quran recited?

If you ever want to notice you will find the fact that Orthodox Christianity are closer to Islam than Catholics or protestants(They did not forbid sodomy and some other sins or in other words they are more secular than orthodox christianity)

Not sure that this is at all relevant.

in the other thread

Still not sure what you are on about. I recall asking any questions in the other thread, I made factual statents, and refused to engage in topic changes focussing only on what I was addressing.

According to the every historian of that era there were only 17 men and 1 woman in Mecca were able to read and write and our prophet wasn't one of them.

And how do these historians know that? Where is it stated?

what do you have to say about those Ayat that Heidar posted? I can bring you more if you really seek the truth but if you just want to blame or... just tell me.

I don't have anything to say about them, currently. I may do so at some future point. I do not, however, think I have 'blamed' anything.

The truth is Muhammad (ص) was not illiterate but he was an (Ommy person/اُمی) that means he never Educate and never write or read any paper before he was chosen by Allah.We use word (Ommy/اُمی) because there is no equivalent for the word (Ommy/اُمی) in English and it doesnt mean being illiterate. It means "he didnt educate at any school(or whatever you think)"that is an implication of word (Ommy/اُمی).In fact Muhammad (ص) did not write or read anything in front of people till Revelation time.Of course there is no accompaniment among not going to school and illiteracy.It is true that the conventional way of acquiring knowledge is educating,But the science of Muhammad (ص) has not been achieved by this conventional method.Our sayyed (ص) achived his Knowledge through revelation that is the perfect way(However,The West philosophy wont accept revelation or other ways like that).Due to these conditions,Issued book like Quran of the uneducated prophet (ص) is nothing but a miracle.

Okay, the initial assertion is that Muhammad was illiterate.
I questioned that assertion.
Lets cut down to the chase. Could Muhammad read and write? If the answer is no, how do you know that?

بِسمِ اللهِ الرَحمنِ الرَحیم
(29:48)َوَ مَا كُنتَ تَتْلُواْ مِن قَبْلِهِ مِن كِتَابٍ وَ لَا تخَُطُّهُ بِيَمِينِكَ إِذًا لاَّرْتَابَ الْمُبْطِلُون
You had not been reciting any book previously nor did you copy it down with your right hand; otherwise quibblers would suspect it.(29:48 )

Is this the evidence that Muhammad was 'illiterate'?

[Fardin]

What I replied to was zarmehr stating "I am telling you that islam has forbidden killing people or every barbaric act you think."
I quoted two verses (9:5 and 9:29) which permit the killing of those who do not believe and allow the continued killing of these unbelievers until they convert, or, for the people of the Book, altenatively submit and pay the jizya. Permitting is the opposite of zarmehr's claim of forbidding.
Whether or not it is shameful or that I do the same or not is irrelevant. I maade no claims about the action or myself.

actually it's not barbaric.as Heidar said we kill our enemies like anyone else.there is a thing you missed in the end of the most of Ayat that consists of killing or war, God states forgiveness or being merciful rapidly.our aim of fighting is to be closer to God and since the God forgives and he is merciful , we want to act and be like him so we believe in forgiveness far more than killing as our first Imam.
these events happens after every war.You westerners really speak good but when it comes to doing part, you forget all of the beautiful words.Quran is a realistic book , it's not a Cinderella story to say only : oooooh dear children be nice and kiss each other or oh look at that rainbow what a beautiful day! actually there are some Ayat like this to remind us who created this universe and show us the true way of life.
come out of dreams,we live in a real world with real events and real consequences.God knows the humans nature,he created all of us and he knows how to lead us.

Just similar rights? Not the same rights?
Do these Jews and Christians submit to rule of Muslims?

Wrong words : same rights. I don't know what they think about the rule of muslims but it's very obvious thay prefer a Jewish or christian government.there are many christian martyrs in the 8 years of war against Saddam, they love their country as we do,they fight for the fatherland as we do.we are Iranian and we are brother by blood first.

Interesting:
"O you who have faith!
Do not take the Jews and the Christians for allies:
they are allies of each other.
Any of you who allies with them
is indeed one of them.
Indeed Allah does not guide the wrongdoing lot."
A Shia translation, if I am not mistaken. Is Sayyid 'Ali Quli Qara'i incompetent?
And odd also that you leave the second use of 'allies' without changing it to 'friends'.
In the event: awliya (pl.), waliyy (sing.) = helpers, friends, allies, patrons, legal guardians
So when Allah says la tattakhidhu it is not an imperative prohibition?
Rather it is merely a suggestion?

it doesn't matter what is in the translation, ally or friend.we have two kind of prohibition in Islam: 1. Makrooh:it's bad but it's not forbidden 2. Haram: it's very bad and it's forbidden. and this one is Makrooh
I want to refer to real world again; Iran as a country with muslim leaders who claim Iran is Ommolghora of Islam(main land of Islam) is ally with Russia and North Korea,first one is [Ahle Ketab/اهل کتاب] and the second one as a commonist country is a pure infidel.

An assertion.

again it doesn't matter to be an assertion or not.Our prophet came after the previous prophets to continue their way and complete their guidance.We believe in Moses and Jesus and we do what the God asked them to do,God doesn't change his orders over the time.

Interesting.
So what I quoted: 5:33 "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter;"
Are you claiming that crucifixion and cutting off of hands and feet on opposite sides is torture?

the porpuse is killing not torture.

Jews? Now, I have read the quran, and sira, various hadith, tafsir, histories, apologists etc. over time for some thirty odd years or so, and so perhaps I have forgotten something or missed something, but I don't ever recall it being claimed that the bedouin Banu Ukl/Uraynah were Jews.

Are these punishments not mandated by Allah himself, and thus among the best punishments for those who strive for mischief in the land?
Is the Qu'ran not eternal and flawless?
Allah's edicts, as recited by Prophet Muhammad, and written down can be updated and banned by these Ayatollahs?

Qu'ran is eternal and Marja' Taghlids deductions is from Qur'an.do you know what is Feqh?Feqh established by Imam Ja'far for these situations.these examples should b enough for you to understand: Qur'an tell us to pray and the prophet taught us how to pray , Qur'an tell us to pay Zakat and the prophet states the conditions.
All of the deductions are referred to Qur'an and if any Marja' Thaghlid could not convince us it's from Qur'an and Shariah or Sunnah , he'll be disqualified.
and about your imaginary meditate on the Qur'an and Islam: We call those Sha'ne Nozoul.it's very interesting and funny that you have read(!!!!!!) Qur'an and you have not convinced yet it's from God.

Still not sure what you are on about. I recall asking any questions in the other thread, I made factual statents, and refused to engage in topic changes focussing only on what I was addressing.

nevermind.you got me bored with your understanding power.

And how do these historians know that? Where is it stated?

these were the historians of that era: Aaban bin Othman bin Affan, Orvah bin Zobayr,Muhammad bin Shahab Zahri,Muhammad bin Es hagh(Isaac),Ali bin Muhammad Madatheni(his book is in 20 Vol.), Ibn Wazeh Ya'ghubi and.....

I don't have anything to say about them, currently. I may do so at some future point. I do not, however, think I have 'blamed' anything.

Good work with blaming.if you don't answer to my questions properly then you should not expect me to answer yours.It's very easy for people like you to close your eyes and open your mouths.Atlest have the courage and accept it's a miracle.
pathetic...

[Infidel144]

actually it's not barbaric.as Heidar said we kill our enemies like anyone else.there is a thing you missed in the end of the most of Ayat that consists of killing or war, God states forgiveness or being merciful rapidly.our aim of fighting is to be closer to God and since the God forgives and he is merciful , we want to act and be like him so we believe in forgiveness far more than killing as our first Imam.

Strawman. I did not address that portion of zarmehr's assertion (zarmehr stating: "I am telling you that islam has forbidden killing people or every barbaric act you think."). Only the killing portion. Unlike what zarmehr claimed I quoted the Quran showing that killing is not forbidden. I made no claim about anything being barbaric.

Wrong words : same rights. I don't know what they think about the rule of muslims but it's very obvious thay prefer a Jewish or christian government.

Can a Jew become President of Iran?
If a Jew kills a Muslim, what is the punishment?
If a Muslim kills a jew, what is the punishment?

it doesn't matter what is in the translation, ally or friend.we have two kind of prohibition in Islam: 1. Makrooh:it's bad but it's not forbidden 2. Haram: it's very bad and it's forbidden. and this one is Makrooh

If it does not matter what is in the translation, then your comrade, Heidar, should perhaps not claim it to be a wrong translation.
By your explanation, when Allah says 'la tattakhidhu', the imperative prohibition is more of a guideline.

again it doesn't matter to be an assertion or not.Our prophet came after the previous prophets to continue their way and complete their guidance.We believe in Moses and Jesus and we do what the God asked them to do,God doesn't change his orders over the time.

It does matter if it is an assertion. The claimed hadith should be provided so that it may be evaluated.

the porpuse is killing not torture.

Not an answer. Is crucifixion, or the cutting of of hands and feet on opposite sides considered torture? (and note, I am not the one who introduced the subject of 'torture').

Qu'ran is eternal and Marja' Taghlids deductions is from Qur'an.do you know what is Feqh?Feqh established by Imam Ja'far for these situations.these examples should b enough for you to understand: Qur'an tell us to pray and the prophet taught us how to pray , Qur'an tell us to pay Zakat and the prophet states the conditions.
All of the deductions are referred to Qur'an and if any Marja' Thaghlid could not convince us it's from Qur'an and Shariah or Sunnah , he'll be disqualified.
and about your imaginary meditate on the Qur'an and Islam: We call those Sha'ne Nozoul.it's very interesting and funny that you have read(!!!!!!) Qur'an and you have not convinced yet it's from God.

I do have some base familiarity with the concept of Islamic jurisprudence (feqh).
The questions I posed were:
1). Are these punishments not mandated by Allah himself, and thus among the best punishments for those who strive for mischief in the land?
2). Is the Qu'ran not eternal and flawless? [answered]
3). Allah's edicts, as recited by Prophet Muhammad, and written down can be updated and banned by these Ayatollahs?
I can take the second question as answered.
However neither the first nor the third were answered. Are Crucifixion and the cutting off of hands and feet on the opposite sides among the best punishments for those who strive for mischief in the land?
Can what Allah has made lawful, in the eternal Quran, and, as shown by the example of Prophet Muhammed, was ordered to be done by the Messenger to members of the Banu Ukl, actually be banned by the Ayatollahs?

these were the historians of that era: Aaban bin Othman bin Affan, Orvah bin Zobayr,Muhammad bin Shahab Zahri,Muhammad bin Es hagh(Isaac),Ali bin Muhammad Madatheni(his book is in 20 Vol.), Ibn Wazeh Ya'ghubi and.....

Excellent, but I did not ask who the historians were, but, rather, 'how do they know that Muhammad was illiterate'?
Is it from the verse zarmehr quoted: 29:48?

Good work with blaming.if you don't answer to my questions properly then you should not expect me to answer yours.It's very easy for people like you to close your eyes and open your mouths.Atlest have the courage and accept it's a miracle.
pathetic...

What exactly have I been blaming? Also, I never agreed to answer any questions, however, I do think I have answered questions you have asked. Further, you in your opening post said you would gladly answer any question about Iran or Shia Islam, while I have limited my comments and queries as directly related to those things you and/or your comrades have said.

[Fardin]

Can a Jew become President of Iran?
If a Jew kills a Muslim, what is the punishment?
If a Muslim kills a jew, what is the punishment?

let me ask you what does Islamic Republic of Iran mean?
If a Jew become a president, the whole world will laugh at us.
Punishment is same(with additional conditions).

Excellent, but I did not ask who the historians were, but, rather, 'how do they know that Muhammad was illiterate'?
Is it from the verse zarmehr quoted: 29:48?

We have a phrase in Qur'an : Objections of Israelites,we use it for a person like you who just wants to fuss and complain and never gets satisfied, If you had read the Qur'an,you could understand what I mean.
It's a very funny question, in the city of illiterates what would be interesting and draw attention to itself?

What exactly have I been blaming? Also, I never agreed to answer any questions, however, I do think I have answered questions you have asked. Further, you in your opening post said you would gladly answer any question about Iran or Shia Islam, while I have limited my comments and queries as directly related to those things you and/or your comrades have said.

Dear infidel , I do get happy when I see someone seeks for the truth and asks questions to reach that but I don't think you are after this, Am I right?

[Infidel144]

let me ask you what does Islamic Republic of Iran mean?
If a Jew become a president, the whole world will laugh at us.
Punishment is same(with additional conditions).

So, that would be a 'no', a Jew cannot become president of Iran.
If there are additional conditions depending on whether a Jew kills a Muslim or a Muslim Kills a Jew, then it would seem the punishment is not the same.
Would those additional conditions on punishment be that a Muslim who kills a Jew is subject to the blood-wit (diyya), while a Jew who kills a Muslim is subject to execution?

In the event, by the responses you have given, it would seem that Heidar's assertion of 'similar rights', was the more accurate.

We have a phrase in Qur'an : Objections of Israelites,we use it for a person like you who just wants to fuss and complain and never gets satisfied, If you had read the Qur'an,you could understand what I mean.

We have a phrase in debate and discussion: Avoiding the Question. It is used for people who respond question or argument by not actually addressing the point. If you read my questions and your responses, you could understand what I mean.

It's a very funny question, in the city of illiterates what would be interesting and draw attention to itself?

See, even here, no actual answer to the question.

Dear infidel , I do get happy when I see someone seeks for the truth and asks questions to reach that but I don't think you are after this, Am I right?

It seems to me, that I am getting more to the truth, by asking these pointed questions, and providing relevant facts and context, so no, I don't think you are right.

[bigdaddy1204]

Infidel144, I am surprised to see you still posting about this.
Me and you have talked about these questions many times before. This made me curious - it looks you are very interested in Islam, your efforts go beyond the average member. What motivates this interest?

I ask because most people don't get that interested unless there is some reason driving it... ?

Thank you Fardin for making heroic efforts in the Forums. +1 rep for you

[Cyrene]

can you all please stop it with these Zebra posts? there's really no need to answer every single bit, this just seems like "who gets tired first" kind of discussion.

[Fardin]

I talk like a normal person and my way of discussing is very normal but yours... I'm not sure. I exactly answered to your question ,after that I asked you another question that is indirectly related to your question and if you answer to mine I can convince you better.
I'm not convinced yet about your claim to seek the truth.
Maybe another time when I was in the mood...

[Col. Tartleton]

Hypothetically, when the Israelis are all dead, I assume Hamas and Palestinian Authority will be betrayed in favor of Hezbollah?

[Fardin]

Hypothetically, when the Israelis are all dead, I assume Hamas and Palestinian Authority will be betrayed in favor of Hezbollah?

Firstly,we don't want them dead. No,if they do such a thing I'll fight against them.

[Roma_Victrix]

The literacy of Muhammad (or lackthereof) is in interesting concept, but I'm not well-versed enough in Islamic history to know much about it. If he came from an itinerant merchant background he certainly knew a thing or two about finance. That involves some competence when it comes to numbers at least. As for the written word, that's debatable. You can understand mathematics and still be illiterate. Just look at the Incas of medieval Peru and their quipu or "talking knots", basically a bundle of threads that served as a recording device for mathematical problems and keeping track of storage items.

[Dragus]

Iran won't even let women into their stadiums to view volleyball sporting events. Following the ban, allowing mixed-gender attendance in Iranian stadiums is referred to as "un-Islamic" and "exposing the women to crude behavior". Stuff like this (alongside numerous human rights violations) is why Iran is a joke and will continue to be a joke until its government is inevitably toppled from the outside or replaced from the inside.

[snuggans]

i am not really sure why the "liberalism" of Iran's youth is exalted so much and constantly rolled out for comparison vs Saudi Arabia when in reality the Iranian Islamic Revolution is exalted MORE than anything else in Iran, which served to set a downward spiral when it comes to liberalism, not increase it


Saudi women meanwhile:









Iran's small superiorities such as allowing women to drive and vote are gradually being matched by Saudi Arabia, however the Saudi youth benefits more from Saudi Arabia being a more globally accessible country than Iran. if Iran does not open up itself to the world then this much vaunted Iranian liberalism could be at risk of disappearing completely

[Abdülmecid I]

Well, unfortunately, it seems like that the Iranian people in 1979 were more concerned about the torturous interrogation techniques of SAVAK, the oppressive absolute monarchy and their taxed money not wasted into propaganda parades than female attire in sports. You are, of course, free to have a different hierarchy of priorities, but I'll take the Islamic Republic, where elections, despite being castrated, are actually held, over the Shah and his secret police any time. Regarding your collection of images, I don't think that comparing national sports teams with the upper class' privacy is very valid. If you really insist on sports, I believe that an image like that:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

compared to an article like this:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

http://www.nbcolympics.com/news/saud...e-athletes-rio

is more appropriate, although admittedly less suitable for an American ultra-nationalist interpretation of geopolitics.