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Thread: The garrison script suggestion

  1. #1

    Default The garrison script suggestion

    I know, for those who have played The Third age total war, these words would create some unpleased thoughts. For those who don’t know what the “The garrison script” is, It’s a script in the Medieval total war mod The Third age where settlements of the Ai get a army stack automatically spawned inside when a enemy forces besiege them. These garrisons where mostly large and full of elite troops. The reason why this script was in the mod was because the Medieval TW Ai failed to protect is settlements.

    The reason why I am bringing this up is because In my last EB2 campaigns I see nations get destroyed to fast, sometimes even before turn 60. This mostly happens because the poor deployment of the Ai that result in the other Ai army taking there (last) settlement. Think about small countries like Pergamon or Massylim (Numidia). Or factions that are close to each other, like one of the 3 Greek factions in Greece.

    A garrison script should prevent that. I am not talking about the same size of the Third age (The script in that mod was to large and full of elite troops), more like a small band of militia or city guard of 2,4 or 6 units for all the faction capitals and the large important Cities.
    So, what do you people think? I am curious.

  2. #2

    Default Re: The garrison script suggestion

    The closest thing we ever had to an agreement on this internally was that if we ever implemented it, it would only be for the capitals, or settlements of particular significance to a faction. Having it happen in every single settlement is out of the question.

  3. #3

    Default Re: The garrison script suggestion

    That could be interesting as QS for very improtant settlements. Like trying to take Rome or Carthage, although I will be against full elites.

    Having it for every sttlement would be just extremelly hard and ridiculous forcing you to play unrealistically. Also I find that sicne the update the AI protects a lot better their settlements. I think is mainly due to minor settlement removal. I have to face at least half stack in any settlement assault, and most time more.

    We will either find a way, or make one.


  4. #4

    Default Re: The garrison script suggestion

    I dont think its necessary. If they are added, they shouldnt be full stacks and definitely just for the capitals.

  5. #5

    Default Re: The garrison script suggestion

    Awwww hell no.

  6. #6
    Ἀπολλόδοτος Α΄ ὁ Σωτήρ's Avatar Yeah science!
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    Default Re: The garrison script suggestion

    I'm not fond of garrison scripts. If I'm not mistaken those units can't be removed by script which enables AI to use them offensively.
    "First get your facts straight, then distort them at your leisure." - Mark Twain

    οὐκ ἦν μὲν ἐγώ, νῦν δ' εἰμί· τότε δ' ούκ ἔσομαι, ούδέ μοι μελήσει

  7. #7

    Default Re: The garrison script suggestion

    Quote Originally Posted by Rad View Post
    Awwww hell no.
    2X

  8. #8

    Default Re: The garrison script suggestion

    Quote Originally Posted by QuintusSertorius View Post
    The closest thing we ever had to an agreement on this internally was that if we ever implemented it, it would only be for the capitals, or settlements of particular significance to a faction...
    i'd love that. however hard you beef up the AI and make a player's life harder, AI still isnt smart enough to defend its core settlements properly and needs this, imho. i've played a few mods that use the system and cant complain. if anything, this make campaign even harder and more demanding in terms of assembly and deployment of a proper invasion force (and all the associated improvements to infrastructure etc that precede this), makes game more entertaining and more satisfying when the crucial city is finally yours. besides, there are historical precedents when important cities did deploy their citizens in time of need.
    Last edited by Sarkiss; June 22, 2016 at 02:43 PM.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: The garrison script suggestion

    a small voice meekly suggests possibly making it an optional feature? i don't love how these things tend to "ruin" army compositions/recruitment by remaining in play after their intended purpose...

  10. #10
    Libertus
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    Default Re: The garrison script suggestion

    I hated in "Third Age TW" how the garrison script spam spawns experienced full armies to help capitals. And Mordor respawning out of nothing while my ring bearer was on the other side of the map 30 turns away from destroying the ring. I considered it a win and stopped playing lol
    If ppl want it here it should at least be realistic and spawn weak freshly recruited units (weak armor spearmen, weak archers) and only on important key settlements (Rome, Athenai, Pella, Memphis, Alexandria) it would be useful to stop you from taking both Sparta and Athenai on 2nd turn when playing as Makedonia lol

  11. #11

    Default Re: The garrison script suggestion

    Is it possible in any way to give a specified unit zero campaign movement points? IIRC cavalry has more movement points than infantry. Is this harcoded?
    I'm asking, because if it's possible then garrison could be added at the beginning of campaign.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: The garrison script suggestion

    Quote Originally Posted by Venetus View Post
    Is it possible in any way to give a specified unit zero campaign movement points? IIRC cavalry has more movement points than infantry. Is this harcoded?
    I'm asking, because if it's possible then garrison could be added at the beginning of campaign.
    That'd be interesting, especially if those specific units only could have 0 upkeep so as not to throw off economy in general. But how would you account for faction thinking they have those troops and recruiting beyond that accordingly... might throw things off. I'm sure these and a million other reasons are why the team haven't reached a consensus on adding the feature, for which I'm glad selfishly.

  13. #13

    Default Re: The garrison script suggestion

    I should add, I don't think there's any real desire in the team to take this forward. We don't want to encourage Siege: Total War that EB1 was guilty of. Even if we did, they'd be balanced and realistic stacks, not a load of elites.

    As to zero-movement armies, not possible. Campaign movement is hardcoded, I'm guessing there's a multiplier that having cavalry or infantry armies applies to the movement of FMs and Captains leading. The only way you can remove movement is as a trait for characters, and as we've already seen in tests, that just stops the garrison commander leaving, not his troops.

  14. #14

    Default Re: The garrison script suggestion

    having an elite stack spawn is ridiculous. there should probably be 1, 2 elite units to represent mobilisation of local high nobility and elites but the rest made of mid and low tier troops of the free citizenry and poorer classes. restricting this feature to a number of cities that had either a history or a potential for such mobilisaion - Sparta, Rome, Carthage, Athens... would also be sensible. at the end of the day the game is largely about land grabbing and making this more challenging can result is a more rewarding game, as well as demonstrate historically plausible developments.

  15. #15
    The excited one's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: The garrison script suggestion

    it works in RS games why not here?
    war is peace, ignorance is strength, freedom is slavery......
    (george orwell 1984)

  16. #16

    Default Re: The garrison script suggestion

    I understand the team don't want redondant garrison full stacks, but in my Arverni 2.2a campaign I've very exploited the fact AI Aedui didn't garrison correctly Bibrakte(their capital and their main source of power). Despite their armies were quite big in comparison to mines, they were dispatched, and the capital itself has only five units, so I've launched all my forces(one full stack+ 10 units)on Bibrakte, defaiting the five units placed in garrison, then the only full stack they had near Bibrakte.

    Only remained 2 Aedui full stacks balading in their client regions(Sequani region mostly). Without their capital and its capacity of recruitment the next battle was the decisive one that sanctionned the end of Aedui hegemony in Eastern Gauls.


    What I suggest for Barbarians

    -five spawnable units in capitals(saying 2 elites and 3 medium)
    -then represents how the clients and tribal allies want to help the capital by spawning 10 units right near the besieged capital.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: The garrison script suggestion

    or uh... you know.... don't very exploit the AI if you don't want it to prematurely collapse...

  18. #18

    Default Re: The garrison script suggestion

    Quote Originally Posted by Dooz View Post
    or uh... you know.... don't very exploit the AI if you don't want it to prematurely collapse...
    The only problem with this suggestion is that it's hard to feel like a general when you have to tell yourself not to attack your enemies poorly defended capital so that they can survive for a little while longer.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: The garrison script suggestion

    Quote Originally Posted by Tuuvi View Post
    The only problem with this suggestion is that it's hard to feel like a general when you have to tell yourself not to attack your enemies poorly defended capital so that they can survive for a little while longer.
    Rationalize and justify it. Or rationalize and justify doing so and losing a faction from campaign. If we as humans can rationalize and justify the horrible things we do everyday, this shouldn't be too much of a stretch.

    If you take the poorly defended capital, great. The commander who did so (not you but the character in the game) was a brilliant strategist and perhaps a bit conniving, perhaps not honorable. But quick thinking and goal oriented. Ending the reign of an enemy and liberating countless from their yolk. Makes sense.

    If you choose not to, your faction leader or otherwise warlord might not be the best military strategist. Or maybe has too much honor to take the shortcut, and would prefer to battle the enemy face to face at their best, like a true warrior. Depends on the characters and their traits, how you want to play them.

    Think less like yourself and what you would do at the top of your intelligence playing a game, and more like the characters you control. You're never in the game. You're the all seeing all knowing controlling hand. Your characters come and go, live their lives, make their decisions. But they need you to do that for them. You're the constant and if you're always making the same kinds of decisions, the characters don't end up mattering beyond being necessary mechanical tools. That's your choice whether to be satisfied or not by it. But you can do more. You can do anything you want.

  20. #20

    Default Re: The garrison script suggestion

    @Dooz, ok super, cool suggestion[translation: I don't care about your poor approach of the problem, stop to interact with me, thanks]

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