Medieval Kingdoms Total War: "Byzantine Empire" HIGH and LATE ERA units

[zsimmortal]

@zsimmortal, Latin Empire?

No for the Late Byzantines. Genoese soldiers fought with the Empire, most notably in 1453. But Chios was given to the Republic, as was Galata.

[sobaos]

Why the heavy infantry cost more than the skoutatoi swordmen when their stats are worst ?

And is it going to be more units to nicaean empire or its definitely done, because in my opinion the roster lacks late heavy cavalry.

[FrozenmenSS]

My take on the greek fire is keep it as late tech unlocked naval and arty unit.Total war is about reinventing history.Its perfect for the greek fire.

Sent from my GT-I9301I using Tapatalk

[Ingen175]

I am not sure about that. In given period there were slowly showing a new technologies vastly reducing the effectiveness of Greek fire - cannons. No longer ships had to come close but could be damaged from further range. Greek fire should be closer to the middle of tech tree, not too early but reserving it for late stages might render it useless against more modern Genoese/Venetian/Spanish ships.

[paulyo122]

I said this on another thread but i feel like this needs to be addressed.

I know its still being worked on but for Nicaea, having heavy infantry as of right now is pointless when theres a cheaper same offensive stat and better defensive Scoutatoi. Unless heavy Infantry gets a buff in offence then its pretty pointless. I don't think heavy infantry will be used ever. Giving it a buff will surely add some variety to the mix of using tanky infantry like Scoutatoi and a Stronger but weaker heavy infantry for an offensive present rather than no present at all

[Visarion]

@Ltd. Sorry for spamming. I'll simply edit my posts on the already existing threads from now on and avoid using Ospray. I'll try using only primary sources. I found a way to avoid these damn site errors but there are still pretty much limitations, for instance if you write too much time it automatically exits, limited 100 pictures, 10 attachements and so on. I wrote to you in the Proposed Additional Units thread but that was closed and I am the only one to blame for that because of posting Osprey images, trolling and spamming regardless of the good intentions so my appologies for you guys. Anyway my thought is that there should be some different units for tier 3, late guard troops as Nicaea, Morea and Epirus formed the Byzantine Empire of Constantinople while Trapezous and Theodoro formed the Empire of Trebizond in the location of the former Mithridatic Pontus. For further info check the updated Research Thread! All the best! It was a pleasure reviewing the Byzantine previews!

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Edit: @Ltd. Moved the info from Proposed Additional Units thread in the Research Thread. I spent the last couple of nights searching for possible additional units and these would be the options:

At first I thought the persons carry hoplon and roman shields but no, indeed there are depictions of hoplites and legionaries but most likely the cavalrymen started using smaller shields similar to western knights including oblong, "V" shaped, square and tear drop concave ones. First I thought that they are depicted as such to show the models on their margins but they are shown on their back as well.

Legionaries large rectangualar shield:

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Small concave square shield:

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Used by both cavalrymen, archers and foot troops:

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And the kite and tier drop concave one:

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Empire of Constantinople:

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Tier 3: Introduction of square concave shields and small hand shields instead of the traditional kite and tear drop shield. Even oblong and concave tear drop shape. A total of 7,000 very elite so limited, especially archers and swordsmen, guard spearmen too. Few native cavalry, the imperial guard, the rest regula and irregular made from Tyrkic allies and mercs. Also 2,000 western allies and mercs, mostly ranged and the Varangian guard. Reintroduction of Vardariotai, foreign settlers and Paramonai native palace guards both foot and mounted and wielding swords. Cretan diaspora recruits as guards. Morean Desopt allied with Constantinople but autonomous and leading his own wars and anti-Ottoman struggle. The break away of Trapezous means fewer, limited and worse cavalry, intriduction of western mercs and gear. Strong foot guards and excellent foot archers both native and western allies. A mix of cultures. Less heavy native troops, open Macedonian dome helmets, no face protectors, open face, introduction of western helmets, especially Italian open helmets. Mostly Italian gear. I propose a different look, the death of the cataphracts, lighter and no face masks, swift guard troops. Also no more heavy shields except for the round one, concave small square, tear drop, straight small oblong, "V" shaped, round buckler like hand knight shields. A mix of spatha and curved swords and introduction of polearms and greatswords. Death of the cataphracts and classic Varangians. Venetian, dismounted English knights and Varangopouloi in full plate, the rest mixed plate and chain or lamellar armor, Greek plate decorated cuirass, Greek plate cuirass and padded with chain or scale underneath, western cuirass, leather decorated cuirass. No more full cataphract suits, except few for Trapezous. Mostly Macedonian and western helmets, some troops without armor. Introduction of cloaks and tabards to most units. Horse tabards too but not all horses. A new look, very important, having tabards as units from tiers 1 and 2 look obsolete from the Nikephoros and Alexios Comnenus period or even Justinian. Also you put Kontaroi with pikes but those are in fact Menavlatoi and kind of obsolete. Kontaroi was the later name for the skoutatoi and were more heavily armed.




Swords:



Varangopouloi

Greatsword, western armor




Spatharoi (Tier 3)

Kite and square concave shields and sword, longsword, traditional armor including Greek cuirass, maybe with chain underneath or even scale and padded over chain and scale as well

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Skutatoi (Tier 3)

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Paramonai (Tier 3)

Native palace guards or Excubitores, reintroduced in late era, elite native swordsmen, mixed plate and lamelar armor, tabards, greatsword, large round shields on their backs, Macedonian open helmets. Even small round wrist bucklers or shoulder square concave shields like some cavalrymen have for dual wielding

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Spears:






Tzakones (all tiers)

Imperial militia

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Kingsguards (tier 3)

Large round, small round buckler round, tear drop, kite, small oblong shields, a greater diversity in the late era to show the massive mobilisation of native, diaspora and foreign forces of Michael. Square concave and tier drop concave shield as well because Paramonai fought both mounted and dismounted

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Kontaroi Excubitores (Tier 3)

Greek plate cuirass and padded with chain and scale underneath, also mixed plate and scale armors, tabards, cloaks, western knight helmets and Macedonian open helmets, large round, oblong, tear drop and kite shields, small knight like hand shields, concave square, concave oblong and concave tear drop shaped shields, spear, longsword

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Skutatoi Spearmen (Reformed, Tier 3)

Greek plate cuirass, large round shield, spear and longsword

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Archers:




Mourtartoi (Tier 3)

Kite concave shield, spear and bow, traditional ARMOR

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Guard Archers of Constantinople (Tier 3)

Elite mixed western and native archer-swordsmen

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Tzangratoi (Tier 3)

Native crossbowmen




Sphendonatai (Tier 1)

Slingers




Toxotai (Tier 1)

Archers






Cavalry:




Prokoursatores (tier 1 and 2)

Light native, Steppe mercenaries and Vlach allies horse archers




Vardariotai (tier 1 and 2)

Foreign palace guards or Excubitores, no armor, Turko-Magyars (Hungarians or Onogurs (ten arrows, tribes) namely seven Magyar trives and 3 Khabar of the Khazars), they replaced the Paramonoi native palace guards or Exubitores during tiers 1 and 2




Vardariotai (Tier 3)

Foreign palace guards or Excubitores, small round shield, lance and bow, traditional Byzantine armor

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Paramonai Equites (Tier 3)

Native palace guards or Excubitores sword cavalry, Paramonoi were again mentioned in late times as sword wielders and mounting cavalry after being replaced before and during the Latin crusaders came by the Vardariotai settlers of Vardar, new citizens of mixed Turkic and Magyar origin

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Pronoia Strateia (Tier 3)

Replacers of the cataphracts, native style, scale armor, round, square and kite shields, mostly round and square shields, also small oblong, heart shaped, "V" shaped hand knight like shields, lance and sword

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Pronoia Strateia (Tier 3)

Dismounted, large round shield and the other smaller hand shields, longsword, Greek plate armor, scale and lamellar, tabards

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Pronoia Kataphraktoi Strateia (Tier 3)

Missing or replaced with horses without armor, late scale armor including the circullar lamellar and scale Anatolian one for the riders, natives, lance and sword

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Athanatoi ton Basileia (Tier 3)

Former cataphracts, western full plate armor, lance and sword, similar to the Gendarmes, possibly Turkish like horse armor or no horse armor but tabards

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Kavallaroi (Tier 3)

Square concave shield, lance and sword, western style, western helmets, padded armor, similar to the Serjeants

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Allied Troops:





Diaspora:

Morean Despot Pronoiaroi

Mounted, western armor

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Morean Despot Kontaroi

Spearmen, western armor

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Morean Skutatoi Spearmen

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Morean Despot Spatharoi

Longsword, large round shield, lamellar armor

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Cretan Excubitores

Large round shield, longsword, Greek plate cuirass with chain underneath loke in picture bellow

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Cretan Kontaroi

Guard spearmen





Foreign:

Danish Varangians (tier 1)

Axe, longsword, chainmail shirt, lamellar armor



Venetian Heavy Archers

Full plate armor


Venetian Crossbowmen

Plate cuirass


Venetian Condontieri

Plate cuirass, spears and polearms




English Archers

Plate cuirass


English Crossbowmen

Padded


English Dismounted Knights

Spears and polearms, western armor


English Varangians

Greataxe, bardiche, poleaxe, chainmail shirt



Stradiots Allaghion



Catalunian Company about 6,500 (early tiers)


Mongols and Tartars of the Golden Horde

Provided 4,000 troops and again 30,000 in tier 1


Mongols of Ilkanate


Knights of Rhodes

Serbs

Bulgarians

Turks

Ottomans

Genoans

Venetians

Italians

Vlachs

Empire of Trebizond:

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Late Trapezuntian Kontaroi

Small hand oblong, round, "v" shaped or heart shield, spear and longsword

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Late Trapezuntian Kavallaroi

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Late Trapezuntian Pronoia Strateia

Dismounted

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Guard Equites Sagitarri of Trapezous

Small round shield, spear and bow, Anatolian Greek plate cuirass and circullar lamellar armor

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Late Trapezuntian Mourtartoi

Round and oblong shield, spear and bow, Anatolian Greek plate cuirass, scale and lamellar including circullar scale and lamellar

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Guard Archers of Trapezous

Elite archer-swordsmen

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Elite Guard Troops:


Late Trapezuntian Pronoia Strateia

Concave kite shield, lance, longsword, cataphract horse armor, scale and lamellar armor, Anatolian Greek plate and chain underneath

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Pronoiorai Kataphraktoi of Trapezous

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Athanatoi of Trapezous

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Allied Troops:


Theodorid Mourtartoi Archers

Archer-Spearmen


Guard Archers of Theodoro

Archer-Swordsmen



Theodorid Mariners



Moldavian Razesi Archers

Archer-Spearmen, 300 elite guard sent by Stephen the Great to his brother-in-law alongside warships


Moldavian Mariners



Georgian Allied Troops {I'm no expert here}

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Also some Turkoman and Karamanian allies for Constantinople and Zengid for Trapezous

Cuman and Tartar also for Nicaea and Constantinople

Vlach for Epirus and Nicaea and Constantinople

Serb for Nicaea and Constantinople

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http://z15.invisionfree.com/Byzantium_TW/ar/t241.htm

https://byzantineoplomachia.wordpres...antine-armors/

http://grecoroman-army.blogspot.ro/2...armed.html?m=1

https://deadliestblogpage.wordpress....-of-history-2/

[alex33]

I really love this! Will you include a heavy cav unit like the dynatoi from Tsardoms? You allready have the veil and helmet from the imperial guard cav.
early:

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late:

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i hope we will see a recruitable version with this veil and helmet combo =) I think you could in general use some of their unit research as basis.
cheers! Keep up the great work

[Visarion]

Dinatoi!? Never heard of them! More details please!

[alex33]

Dinatoi!? Never heard of them! More details please!

The Dynatoi which means something like "powerful" were a social class in public and military life during the byzantine empire. They were a kind of landed nobility and owned estates throughout the empire. They amased quite some wealth and also influence which the emperors tried to negate with various land reforms. So they are kinda knights. This would translate well as a similar heavy cav replacement for the cataphracts. I would imagine them to be similary equipped as the emperors cav here in the preview as they are quite rich.

[Phyrrus the Great]

Dinatoi!? Never heard of them! More details please!

Don't waste your time,it's not a title it just means those that have power(money,land,armies) and influence

[Visarion]

Do you have any reliable sources?

[alex33]

Sadly all the stuff i have is mostly based on internet research and the stuff i read in the tsardoms preview. You may want to ask a team member of them.

[Visarion]

Ty

[Teutonic]

The "dynatoi" were mentioned in the writings of Kantakouzenos. E.g. when the people of Didymoteichon rose against the local dynatoi. What alex33 @67 writes is about right, they seem to have been aristocrats. My source is Bartusis (The Late Byz Army).

[alex33]

The "dynatoi" were mentioned in the writings of Kantakouzenos. E.g. when the people of Didymoteichon rose against the local dynatoi. What alex33 @67 writes is about right, they seem to have been aristocrats. My source is Bartusis (The Late Byz Army).

Ah thy for backing this up! Yeah the late roster would really benefit from such a unit.

[Douchebag]

Question...will this be the final roster for the byzantine empire? or will they be getting more units?

[Ltd.]

More units will be added

[LEG-IV]

Byzantines. A must play faction!

[Ltd.]

Updated the first post with the following unit additions and edited a couple of the other units, like the tier 1 varangian guard:


HIGH ERA


Anglovarangoi

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Dynatoi / Nobles

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LATE ERA



Militia Archers

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Heavy Archers

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Handgunners

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Scoutatoi Spearmen

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Scoutatoi Swordsmen

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Byzantine Cavalry

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Dynatoi / Nobles

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[warman222]

Awesome work dude!