Faith Idea.

[ficenzi]

After some digging I managed to find this thread in the archives http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...of-Barrowlands
Why did I search for it? Because currently upon requesting a conversion roll for the populace of a location, if you roll a straight 20, you convert 5% of the populace (also, charisma isnt a modifier). Why is this a problem? Because it would take 20 years to convert a place which is 5 months in real time if you rolled 17-20 every time and that's really demotivating for me (not that I'm considering dropping my Red Priest).

What's my proposition? Bring back the system demonstrated in the thread which I linked. The conversion rolls go like d20% + charisma + other modifiers such as the buildings the red faith used to have available.

[Pontifex Maximus]

A 100% conversion of the population should be nigh unattainable anyway. At most a supermajority of like 66-75% seems logical.

[ficenzi]

Then put a cap of 70% but still implement the old roll. Converting one high lordship shouldn't take up to a RL year or more.

[Lord Dread]

Then put a cap of 70% but still implement the old roll. Converting one high lordship shouldn't take up to a RL year or more.

You converted Rosby to your cause already by going directly to his HL and being successful in convincing him to follow your faith - why don't you aim for this.
Conversion on the capital only cause citizens to follow you directly, if you command them, far by my knowledge.

[ficenzi]

Only lord Rosby follows me. All the population of his HL is still FotS, meaning that it can be used against me in the future in rolls.

[Lord Dread]

Only lord Rosby follows me. All the population of his HL is still FotS, meaning that it can be used against me in the future in rolls.

Yeah there's risks for revolts, but otherwise Rosby is the overlord. If he commands them to fight for his cause and his beliefs, the majority of his levies follow.
Plus, it would only be relevant if you confront the High Septon directly.

[Pontifex Maximus]

Also you didn't find the old rules, you found an old roll. This still doesn't give us much to go on at all. What I recommend you do is find the old ruleset (then do whatever you want to them, you could even just copy/paste) and then propose they be brought back.

[ficenzi]

Found old rules and suggestions threads that were made before the rules. http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...-Septons-oh-my http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...e-Rules-Thread

Here's what I believe should be brought back (note I'm only posting sections regarding the Red Faith):

Starting Income for Priesthood:
Septon (or equiv): 12,000 (Players start as a Septon (or equiv), and this class has no associated promotion money)

Red Priests

1. Red Priest. Starting rank. 8,000 Dragons salary. Requires conversion of a minor lord to establish a small temple.

2. Veteran Red Priest. Requires Medium temple. 16,000 Dragons salary. Only one may exist per High Lordship, which necessitates the conversion of a High Lord.

3. High Priest. Requires Large temple. 30,000 Dragons salary. Only one may exist per Lord Paramountcy, which necessitates the conversion of a Lord Paramount

Promotions in the Red Faith are determined by the position of the Priest relative to the political structure of Westeros. Advancement depends upon the priest's ability to find and convert a coopeerative lord that consents to the establishment of temples.

Religious Role Abilities

Red Priests

The Red Faith epitomizes the more mystical nature of religious belief. Exported from Essos, the Red Faith has a slight foothold in Westeros that may be broadened by demonstrating the power of the Red God.

Necromancy

Red Priests can ask R'hllor to intervene and banish death.

1-3 = failure
4-8 = grants one year of extra life
8-12 = grants 2 years of extra life
13-16 = grants 3 years of extra life
17-19 = grants 4 years of extra life
20 = grants 5 years of extra life

Assassination

The Lord of Light gives life, and he takes it away. For each roll a Red Priest requests, death rolls for the priest will be moved forward by two years.

1-5 = failure
6-11 = a shade is generated to be consumed by the target and killed by poison (10% chance of success)
12-14 = a shade is generated to cause an accident to kill the target (20% chance of success)
15-17 = a shade is generated in the form of a wild animal (30% chance of success)
18-19 = a shade is generated in the form of a woman/boy who issues a kiss of death (40% chance of success)
20 = a shade is generated in the form of a man clad in black with a dagger (50% chance of success)

Tithe
D20 x (.005 x province income) = the donation

Fire Gazing (UNOLOCKABLE with Red Temple)
1-5 = failure
6-12 = hazy vision depicting something of yearly importance
13-16 = A less hazy vision depicting something of yearly importance
17-19 = A clear vision depicting something of yearly importance
20 = A completely accurate vision of something of yearly importance

Red Temples

Small Temple - Free.
Medium Temple - 40,000 Dragons. Grants +2 to all religious rolls made.
Large Templet - 80,000 Dragons. Grants +3 to all religious rolls made.

Upgrades
Small Temple Upgrades:
Bonfire Pits (15,000) - Essential to spreading ceremonial practices, converts 10% of the population per year for RP purposes. RP is required for the conversion to take place.

Medium Temple Upgrade:
Great Hearth (15,000) - Unlocks the skill gazing into the fire for the Red Priest

Large Temple Upgrade
Occult Following (20,000) - D20 roll for the generation of a military force that puts itself at the Priest's disposal. moderators will determine who compposes the force

Also, I was looking at several other threads from the past and their conversion rolls. All were done on the d20% principle. One example http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...n-of-Sunspear)

[Pontifex Maximus]

very nice, thank you for posting that.

I am in favor of bringing these rules back

[Dirty Chai]

Yeah I dont know why we got rid of them. The mods have a weird habit of thinking they must delete rules if they aren't used as often as others. This is why the spy rules were deleted.

[Lord Dread]

Kinda feel though we should rework at least the Red Faith rules at some point.
Imo Assassination seems too powerful, while in entire GoT it happened at one single time and never again.
While Tithe is kinda lame.
Feel like Necromancy should be the endgame of a Red Priest's aim of career abilities, while he has inbetween the vision thing (though fortune telling is in my eyes something you barely can RP - rather would go with the solution that it generates some random modifiers, the Red Priest can add/remove at any point within a year, either on himself or the character, whom he told the future).

Kinda would love it, if abilities are gained on some kind of blood metre, so you have to burn people at some point officially to gain more power.
So the real big dudes only get real, the scarier they get.

[Pontifex Maximus]

It's powerful because the red faith is always at a disadvantage really. The red priests are highly susceptible to being killed themselves

[Lord Dread]

It's powerful because the red faith is always at a disadvantage really. The red priests are highly susceptible to being killed themselves

That's true. Though I kinda feel how things are going now, it might change, at least for the moment.
I anyways like that we had so far not to burn anyone with Larraq and Ser Thorgen, while being more like the representants of the people.
So more like Anti-Faith rather than Blood-for-the-Red-God or The-Night-is-dark-and-full-of-terrors - now fetch me some people to burn!

@ficenzi, for the meantime it would be nice, but I would suggest not killing anyone via shadow assassination. Most games I experienced died or became anti-climatic due to assassination by one roll.

[ficenzi]

I agree, this stuff should be reworked but in the meantime these old rules should be implemented because they were deleted without a reason in the first place.

[Pontifex Maximus]

^ agreed

[ficenzi]

Yeah, I know.

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[Pericles of Athens]

If you found these rules did you find the ones for the Old Faith and the Faith of the Seven? I know followers of the Old Gods used to be able to be Greenseers at game start. While The faith of the Seven could convert and raise militants, and the Old Faith had a passive bonus to faith increase in any place still ruled by old God faithfuls.

[ficenzi]

Click the link I posted Peri and youll find them

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[Pericles of Athens]

Oh cool I say we bring back all faith rules. And the passive buff that was added later to the North to protect it from those converting the populace.

[Trot]

We got rid of the old rules because it always saw red priests converting provinces far to fast. If we lower the conversion rate then I say go for it.