Equipment Reworking

[Pontifex Maximus]

Our Armor/Weapons rules are a bit out of date. Here's a proposal to bring it more in line and a few modest changes for simplification. The original equipment options can be found here.

Any changes would probably need to take effect after the next payday out of fairness. All characters would have the option to "sell back" equipment for a full refund.

Personal Equipment
These are items equipped to characters to improve their traits.

Short Weapons

(Less damage, can be used with shields) +1 Duels; Tempered steel, 10,000 dragons +2 Duels; Folded steel, 20,000 dragons +3 Duels; Castle forged 30,000 dragons

Bastard Swords or Hand-and-a-half Longsword

(Less damage, can be used with shields) +4 Duels; Castle Forged 40,000 dragons

Greatswords

(High Damage, cannot be used with shields, requires some skill) +5; Tempered steel, 25,000 dragons +6; Folded steel, 35,000 dragons +7; Castle forged, 45,000 dragons

Valyrian Steel

These swords cannot be purchased or created. They are listed here only for convenience as other weapons are listed here. List of VS weapons Weapons are one handed swords unless specified as Greatswords. The single axe on the list is to be regarded as a one handed sword. - Heartsbane (Greatsword) - House Tarly of Horn Hill - Longclaw (Bastard Sword) - House Mormont of Bear Island - Lady Forlorn - House Corbray of Heartshome - Red Rain, House Drumm (Probably the stolen ancestral sword of House Reyne) - Nightfall, House Harlaw of Harlaw - Crab Pincer (Axe - One Hand Sword for stat purposes), House Celtigar of Claw Isle - Ice (Greatsword), House Stark of Winterfell - Blackfyre (Bastard Sword), ancestral sword of House Targaryen/Blackfyre, processed by Maelys Blackfyre location unknown. - Dark Sister, ancestral sword of House Targaryen, location unknown. - Vigilance, House Hightower of Oldtown - Orphan Maker, House Roxton of the Ring - Dawn (Greatsword), House Dayne of Starfall (not technically a Valyrian Steel weapon, but said to be as sharp as one, and still magical) - Lamentation - Ancestral sword of House Royce. Location unknown, rumored to lie in the Dragon Pit. Reforging and Renaming rules They can be re-forged once acquired for RP purposes at a cost of 40,000 Dragons per reforging. --- Can be reforged into the same thing (eg 1h to 1h) to give it a new name and look. You cannot rename without reforging. --- Reforging a Greatsword can give you either one new Greatsword or two new Swords. --- Reforging two Swords can give you either one new Greatsword or two new Swords. ---Reforging a Greatsword may yyield one bastard sword and one smaller +3 knife of Valyrian Steel. --- Reforging will be subject to decent RP being done. House Tarly wouldn't just decide to melt down their ancient family heirloom and reforge two new swords, for example. One handed sword, +4 Duels Bastard Sword, +5 Duels Greatsword, +8 Duels

Armor

Armor is an RP element. Each piece of armor adds +1 health points in a Duel. Iron shield, 5.000 Helm, 5.000 Greaves, 5,000 Chest-plate, 10.000 Pauldrons, 10,000 Gauntlets, 10,000 Plackart, 15,000 Sabaton, 15,000 Complete set bonus: +2 Duels and +2hp in a duel. Therefore total stat increase for a full set is +10hp in duels and +2 Duels. Note bene: When wielding a Greatsword, a shield cannot be used, therefore no full set bonus may be applied when using a Greatsword.

*Greatsword prices increased by 5k each. Reflects a 5k/+1 duel point gained to bring it more in line with the 1h weapon/armor buying route.
*Bastard sword class added, updated VS weapon list to reflect Blackfyre and Longclaw as Bastard swords
*Reflected new reforging possibilities
*No changes for armor, I think it is fine just as is. Not perfect, but close enough.

[Trot]

I don't get the benefit, Bastard Swords can also be used as 2 handed weapons so what would a player get if they decided to use their bastard sword forgoing a sheild? Plus it screws the balance.

Currently the player has a choice between +5 Duels and +12 health or +7 duels and +7 health

Under this proposed rule set it is a choice between

+6 duels and +12 health or +7 duels and +7 health.

Overall it is a drastic change that really only effects to weapons and offers little tangible benefit.

[Pontifex Maximus]

What's stopping a character from buying a shield anyway and a 2h sword and 1h sword and deciding what equipment to use based on the situation? Also, can doesn't mean must.

Also, an additional +1 duels for spending 10k more for a sword counts as a "drastic" change to you...?

[Poach]

I agree with Trot. I don't see why this is necessary.

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[Lord Dread]

Thing is, I don't like the prizes and in general how armour is handled, as given by the current rules you can buy straight away a full armour set with best weapon as a rich House like Targaryen, Lannister, Arryn or Hightower for a single character,
while a sworn sword takes at least 5 years to achieve it, hedge knights longer.
While same applies for the Kingsguard, as we have seen recently - technically these guys should gain automatically a set of armour which the King can buy them or is implied to be bought by the King, whenever a Kingsguard is recruited.

So, I rather would lower the prizes, while making armour sets entire.
Each set would variete in terms of HP/Attack, as more heavy plated armour grants you more HP, but won't give you more attack.
Choosing lighter armour or leather sets, would grant your character a more Dornish fight style, so also offer you a small attack bonus, but less HP.

For example:

Leather set - 20,000 gold (available for anyone, grants +4 HP +1 Attack)
Militia set - 25,000 gold (available for anyone, grants +3 HP +2 Attack)
Scout set - 25,000 gold (available for anyone, grants +3 HP, +1 Scout +1 Logistician)
Knight set - 30,000 gold (available for any kind of Knight, Swornsword or Lord as well as for mercenaries, grants +5 HP)
Tourney Knight set -30,000 gold (available for any kind of knight, swordnsword or Lord, grants +4HP, but a bonus of +1 for joust)
Steel plated set - 45, 000 gold (available for any Swornsword or Lordly character, grants +7HP)
Dornish garments - 35,000 gold (available for any Dornishman or Essosi Swornsword, Lord or sellsword captain, grant +5 HP, +2 Attack)

(women only)
Modest dress - 10,000 gold (available for knightly and lordly characters, -1 Charisma +1 wealth)
Noble dress - 15, 000 gold (available for Lordly characters, +1 Charisma +1 to Escape rolls)
Noble gown - 25,000 gold (available for Lordly characters, +2 Charisma -1 to escape rolls)

Shields (work only with 1-handed weapons):
Buckler - 10,000 gold (available for everyone, +1 HP)
Knightly Shield - 20,000 gold (available for every Knight, Swornsword or Lord as well as Sellswords, +3 HP -1 Attack)
Tower Shield - 30,000 gold (available for every Swornsword, Lord or Sellsword captain +5 HP -3 Attack)

Special rules: Kingsguard characters can get their Steel plated set via the King and get a +2 attack bonus due to their passion of defending the king. This bonus exists as long as they hold to their oath or as long as there is a king, whom they can defend and who accepts their oath (said King must at least be from a previous royal family or have a legitimate claim).
Kingsguard Characters, who wield a Valyrian Sword only get a +1 bonus for balance reasons.


It's not balanced out, but imo I would prefer a system, which rather invites you to choose your equipment, while combining stats.
Want to get a pure Defense monster? Get a good sword, Towershield and Steelplated armour, there you go!
You need henchmen, which are not from Dorne, but get more attack than armour? Militia armour and buckler is your choice for swift, speedy attacks on which you can add your duel roll.

So, we should rather go in this direction than making armour pieces more costworthy.
If we continiue this route, nobody ever signs up for a hedge knight or at least a swornsword, because any minor lord can literally do what they can, while getting a better income + more foot soldiers.
In my eyes we should change the system, as we stick with something, which definitly needs an overhaul.

We could technically do a similiar overhaul for swords, though I don't know how much sense this would make.

[ficenzi]

What LD said. Purchasing equipment as a hedge knight and partly sworn sword is nigh impossible due to current prices.

[Pontifex Maximus]

What LD said. Purchasing equipment as a hedge knight and partly sworn sword is nigh impossible due to current prices.

I agree. Let's add a swonswod/hedge knight discount of 33-50% for equipment. That's also long overdue. It shouldn't take a knight 8 years to buy a full set of armor and decent sword.

[Lord Dread]

What LD said. Purchasing equipment as a hedge knight and partly sworn sword is nigh impossible due to current prices.

Plus it also affects minor and High lords. Even with a yearly 30k to 40k income, you're pretty much stuck with building up your economy, barely able to buy yourself an highprized armour, while any LP or similiar ranked lord in terms of income can buy this stuff straight away.
It's just economical injustice, which given by tourneys or duels is . A Tyrell would not win against a Roxton just because he has the better equipment. The duel system has less vareity anyways, so why not link other stuff like traits as well to armour? That way it's not social injustice as anyone can buy a good armour with advantages and disadvantages, while lordships with more money are just free to buy as many variations of clothes as they want to. Characters wear clothes to several occasions - a tourney armour is differently designed, compared with a regular armour you need on open field (though another competitor might just go into the tourney with his regular knight armour).

Giving players vareity is in my eyes the key to even make a simple system more entertaining and tactical.

[Trot]

Plus it also affects minor and High lords. Even with a yearly 30k to 40k income, you're pretty much stuck with building up your economy, barely able to buy yourself an highprized armour, while any LP or similiar ranked lord in terms of income can buy this stuff straight away.
It's just economical injustice, which given by tourneys or duels is . A Tyrell would not win against a Roxton just because he has the better equipment. The duel system has less vareity anyways, so why not link other stuff like traits as well to armour? That way it's not social injustice as anyone can buy a good armour with advantages and disadvantages, while lordships with more money are just free to buy as many variations of clothes as they want to. Characters wear clothes to several occasions - a tourney armour is differently designed, compared with a regular armour you need on open field (though another competitor might just go into the tourney with his regular knight armour).

Giving players vareity is in my eyes the key to even make a simple system more entertaining and tactical.

Actually in Lore buying armor was expensive, when Davos went to the Sisters he met the lord, and the lord complained about the fact that all his sons wanted to be knights and he couldn't afford to get them equipment because his house was poor.

And Armor and weapons aren't used in Tourney's.

[Lord Dread]

Actually in Lore buying armor was expensive, when Davos went to the Sisters he met the lord, and the lord complained about the fact that all his sons wanted to be knights and he couldn't afford to get them equipment because his house was poor.

And Armor and weapons aren't used in Tourney's.

Yet, 105,000 gold for the best armour set is overprized + is balancewise.
If we keep by lore standarts, the Arbor would have a 200 ship fleet and other unbalanced stuff.
Plus, even the Sister lords would at least be able to spend their children some kind of armour, which a regular milita or at least a hedge knight would wear. Given by my proposal I don't see where I would interfere with the system too much, as Steelplated armour would still be costworthy with 45,000 gold.
The main goal is to make characters wearing armour more common, as right now I feel people only buy it, when they have a rich House. While there's no point in buying armour for hedge knights or sworn swords in most cases, given how long games last.
Or would you say it's fair that I can buy for Ser Lyonel Arryn right away a full armour set with best sword, on which Yros Silverhair had to wait several years till he had it complete? Or that when I dueled Selmy with Arryn, that he had no armour - as a Kingsguard!
That's in my eyes desastrous, as more characters run literally around naked, just equipped with 'plot' armour. Even a minor House or regular knight should at least be able to afford half of what a Lord Paramount can obtain HP-wise or get due to his clothing other aspects of which high-prized armour lacks.

I always was under the assumption they partly were. At least armor makes kinda sense and could get utilized with my system, if you limit the armor set choice just for Knight set and Tourney Knight set.

[Pontifex Maximus]

I'd rather have a system that looks like that than the current ones.

And it's necessary because the rules are out of line with lore. Unless we just want to be a generic medieval fantasy game. Which I do not

[Gandalfus]

well to be in line with lore you'd have to make a good sword cost less than building a harbour, for starters

[Pontifex Maximus]

well to be in line with lore you'd have to make a good sword cost less than building a harbour, for starters

Don't mix up lore with economic necessities of a tabletop game. Of course that doesn't make sense. Do you have anything actually useful to add?

[Gandalfus]

Of course that doesn't make sense.

That kinda was my point, really.

Other than the hedge knight/sworn sword discount (which I holeheartedly agree with), I'm pretty indifferent to any changes made here

[Pontifex Maximus]

Buying armor for multiple sons is expensive now and would continue to be expensive. None of that would change.