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Thread: Out of curiosity, could someone list all the settlements where KH can build Allied League and Supervised Hellenic governments?

  1. #1
    Roma_Victrix's Avatar Call me Ishmael
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    Default Out of curiosity, could someone list all the settlements where KH can build Allied League and Supervised Hellenic governments?

    Allied democracies and oligarchies are great and all, but sometimes I dissolve them and luck out to find that they are regions where Koinon Hellenon can actually build more Allied League governments. Other times I'm not so lucky and it's a Supervised Hellenic government, or worse, I have to rebuild the allied democracy or oligarchy, because those are the only two options available! Sometimes it's obvious where you can build these core government building types, in areas that were traditionally Hellenistic in culture and close enough to the Greek mainland.

    Other times they are as far away as Massalia (in France) and Emporion (in Spain).

    Does the EB II team keep lists of these provinces at all? Or do you guys not care to maintain such things?

  2. #2

    Default Re: Out of curiosity, could someone list all the settlements where KH can build Allied League and Supervised Hellenic governments?

    Not possible to list the locations, because they're dependent on the buildings present in the settlement.

    An Allied League can be built anywhere there is a polis, but not an Allied Government or Native Colony. That list changes over time, as the other Hellenistic factions choose to construct polis' around the place. Massalia and Emporion start with one, so they can be constructed there.

    The Supervised Hellenic government is for anywhere that doesn't have a polis (nor Allied Government or Native Colony), but has rel_h 50%+. It's to give a polis-like option for those Hellenised places that KH can't establish a new polis in (because they can't).

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    Roma_Victrix's Avatar Call me Ishmael
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    Default Re: Out of curiosity, could someone list all the settlements where KH can build Allied League and Supervised Hellenic governments?

    Thanks for the reply! So KH is very much like they were in v. 2.1 then, unable to build Hellenistic poleis.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Out of curiosity, could someone list all the settlements where KH can build Allied League and Supervised Hellenic governments?

    I've got to admit I do not understand why KH can't found new poleis. The greeks did, after all, colonize large parts of the world. Athens alone was attempting to build a colony to control the black sea trade near Macedonia during the reign of Philip II. I suppose there is a good reason behind it though.
    The only thing you cannot do with a bayonet is sit on it. Charles Maurice de Talleyrand-Périgord,1st Prime Minister of France, Prince of Benevento.

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    Default Re: Out of curiosity, could someone list all the settlements where KH can build Allied League and Supervised Hellenic governments?

    Quote Originally Posted by Roma_Victrix View Post
    Thanks for the reply! So KH is very much like they were in v. 2.1 then, unable to build Hellenistic poleis.
    Yes, but that inability is ameliorated somewhat by them having actual functional governments (half of them didn't work, thanks to using "and not hidden_resource greek1" in them) and some real options for places without a polis being present. The Supervised Hellenic government you pointed out imitates the polis_two, so get somewhere Hellenised enough and it's as though you had access to one. Their Native Administrations have the broadest selection of any faction, because it is constructible virtually everywhere a polis occurs (southern Gaul, Iberia, Libya, Anatolia, Baktria, etc).

    Quote Originally Posted by Seimour View Post
    I've got to admit I do not understand why KH can't found new poleis. The greeks did, after all, colonize large parts of the world. Athens alone was attempting to build a colony to control the black sea trade near Macedonia during the reign of Philip II. I suppose there is a good reason behind it though.
    Because all that colonisation petered out over a century before our period. Even the notion of Koinon Hellenon as a faction is a contrivance owing as much to gameplay as historicity. Colonisation by Greeks from Hellas, and even secondary colonisation by the places they'd founded elsewhere, was done.
    Last edited by QuintusSertorius; June 14, 2016 at 06:39 PM.

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    Roma_Victrix's Avatar Call me Ishmael
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    Default Re: Out of curiosity, could someone list all the settlements where KH can build Allied League and Supervised Hellenic governments?

    Quote Originally Posted by QuintusSertorius View Post
    Yes, but that inability is ameliorated somewhat by them having actual functional governments (half of them didn't work, thanks to using "and not hidden_resource greek1" in them and some real options for places without a polis being present. The Supervised Hellenic government you pointed out imitates the polis_two, so get somewhere Hellenised enough and it's as though you had access to on. Their Native Administrations have the broadest selection of any faction, because it is constructible virtually everywhere a polis occurs (southern Gaul, Iberia, Libya, Anatolia, Baktria, etc).
    Excellent! Thanks for clarifying.

    Because all that colonisation petered out over a century before our period. Even the notion of Koinon Hellenon as a faction is a contrivance owing as much to gameplay as historicity. Colonisation by Greeks from Hellas, and even secondary colonisation by the places they'd founded elsewhere, was done.
    Agreed. However, this mod starts in 272 BC and by the time you reach the early 2nd century BC (and you're not playing as Rome), then your map is most likely not going to mirror the historical reality of that period at all. Although it is true to the period and very grounded in historical reality, a game like this is historical fantasy by default. If the Carthaginians, Macedonians, Greeks, or one of the eastern Hellenistic powers managed to conquer much of the Mediterranean world instead of the Romans, you're pretty much changing the whole course of world history. Does it make sense to continue handicapping KH at that point? Wouldn't demographics under a giant unified empire change dramatically over time, with considerble expansion of the population thanks to internal stability? It certainly did for the Roman Republic by the time it became an empire.

    Regardless, though, you're right, they have a wide range of areas to build native governments and on top of that the enhanced supervised governments (sounds much better than v. 2.1), in addition to the allied governments, both democratic and oligarchic.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Out of curiosity, could someone list all the settlements where KH can build Allied League and Supervised Hellenic governments?

    Quote Originally Posted by Roma_Victrix View Post
    Agreed. However, this mod starts in 272 BC and by the time you reach the early 2nd century BC (and you're not playing as Rome), then your map is most likely not going to mirror the historical reality of that period at all. Although it is true to the period and very grounded in historical reality, a game like this is historical fantasy by default. If the Carthaginians, Macedonians, Greeks, or one of the eastern Hellenistic powers managed to conquer much of the Mediterranean world instead of the Romans, you're pretty much changing the whole course of world history. Does it make sense to continue handicapping KH at that point? Wouldn't demographics under a giant unified empire change dramatically over time, with considerble expansion of the population thanks to internal stability? It certainly did for the Roman Republic by the time it became an empire.

    Regardless, though, you're right, they have a wide range of areas to build native governments and on top of that the enhanced supervised governments (sounds much better than v. 2.1), in addition to the allied governments, both democratic and oligarchic.
    EBII isn't freeform alt-historical fantasy. If we remove the constraints that apply very specifically to individual factions, then all the things that make them distinctive and unique disappear. For KH that challenge is how do you unify all the poleis' across the map and weld them into something. If you want to create something new, then there are five other flavours of colonising Hellenistic power to try, each with their own particular spheres of influence and styles of governance.

    Ultimately, it's not even difficult to make it so for yourself, if you'd like KH to be able to colonise in your own local installation. That code I posted before is still valid. But in doing so you undermine the design intent of the very broad applicability of the kh1 and kh5, and the entire purpose of the kh6.

  8. #8
    Roma_Victrix's Avatar Call me Ishmael
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    Default Re: Out of curiosity, could someone list all the settlements where KH can build Allied League and Supervised Hellenic governments?

    Quote Originally Posted by QuintusSertorius View Post
    EBII isn't freeform alt-historical fantasy. If we remove the constraints that apply very specifically to individual factions, then all the things that make them distinctive and unique disappear. For KH that challenge is how do you unify all the poleis' across the map and weld them into something. If you want to create something new, then there are five other flavours of colonising Hellenistic power to try, each with their own particular spheres of influence and styles of governance.

    Ultimately, it's not even difficult to make it so for yourself, if you'd like KH to be able to colonise in your own local installation. That code I posted before is still valid. But in doing so you undermine the design intent of the very broad applicability of the kh1 and kh5, and the entire purpose of the kh6.
    Eh. I'd rather play the game as you guys intended it. I did all sorts of stuff to change v. 2.1, but I'd rather just play the damn game as everyone else does this time around.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Out of curiosity, could someone list all the settlements where KH can build Allied League and Supervised Hellenic governments?

    Quote Originally Posted by Roma_Victrix View Post
    Thanks for the reply! So KH is very much like they were in v. 2.1 then, unable to build Hellenistic poleis.
    Actually I would say its nowhere close. Before there was a very selected amount of alces where you could buid the league goverment. Right now is everywhere with a poleis...so you are getting your best goverment in lots of places (that can expand with AI help). I think that makes a great difference for them compared to previous versions.

    Theres several factions right now that cant have their top notch goverments that far spreaded from the very start.

    When I play KH te feeling I have preciselly different. Uniting the existing greeks under the league...expanding the league influence outside its borders and completing the hellenization of the members. I dont play them like an all colonizing and conquerin power. And I must say I dont feel handicaped at all. They seem pretty strong.

    We will either find a way, or make one.


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