POPE and how to deal with him (diplomacy, reputation)

**Nemesis2345** · January 16, 2021, 10:02 AM

I just use the console command : surrender_regions papal_states everytime the pope goes on a conquering spree since he ruins my immersion greatly when he conquers half of europe lol.

**RodriguesSting** · January 16, 2021, 11:36 AM

Another reason reputation is important for catholic faction is because most of them don't have a good access to a good assault infantry, other than knights. Therefore, holy orders are very important for them, and you can only recruit from these when your reputation is positive.

**stefdim7** · January 16, 2021, 09:28 PM

Many thanks for your replies. Attached a save from year 1296 when I was practically already doomed attacked on all sides: France, Denmark, Hungary, Venice and of course the instigator of all this, our beloved pope! Interesting detail my faction was destroyed by ca. 1303 and this happened incredibly fast, since 30 years before or so I was the strongest faction on the map! Seriously! Nearly all of the German regions were mine including a foot in Italy (I had already lost the French territories in a previous quarrel with the pope). Sadly I have no save from that fair period...

**Jurand of Cracow** · January 17, 2021, 03:45 AM

Originally Posted by stefdim7

Many thanks for your replies. Attached a save from year 1296 when I was practically already doomed attacked on all sides: France, Denmark, Hungary, Venice and of course the instigator of all this, our beloved pope! Interesting detail my faction was destroyed by ca. 1303 and this happened incredibly fast, since 30 years before or so I was the strongest faction on the map! Seriously! Nearly all of the German regions were mine including a foot in Italy (I had already lost the French territories in a previous quarrel with the pope). Sadly I have no save from that fair period...

Thanks @stefdim, I've even included it in the download page describing the difficulty of the mod ;-)
I'll have the HRE file as the reference how the situation looks like after those 300 turns. Very useful for me. You've used the version with or without KCC? Patch E or F/G?

**RodriguesSting** · January 17, 2021, 10:17 AM

Something you have to keep in mind is that the bigger your nation gets, the more neighbors it will be forced to interact with. If you completely forgo diplomacy, or just don't give it enough attention, you will quickly find yourself overwhelmed by the sheer amount of invading forces. Make alliances with all your neighbors, and send them occasional gifts to keep their relations above Very Good (a 10k bag should suffice), and you will be safe from invasions. An alliance is also a non-aggression pact. Sure, they are broken way more often in this mod than, say, in EB2, in which they are rock solid, but different games.

**stefdim7** · January 17, 2021, 05:36 PM

Originally Posted by Jurand of Cracow

Thanks @stefdim, I've even included it in the download page describing the difficulty of the mod ;-)
I'll have the HRE file as the reference how the situation looks like after those 300 turns. Very useful for me. You've used the version with or without KCC? Patch E or F/G?

Because I had problems with the installation following the steps you describe in the download page, I downloaded the full pack version of Kostic that was shared by him in a post at about the beginning of December(?) or so. The info you get when you start the game, related to the contributors, difficulty level etc. refers to Patch E...

**Jurand of Cracow** · January 17, 2021, 05:43 PM

Originally Posted by stefdim7

Because I had problems with the installation following the steps you describe in the download page, I downloaded the full pack version of Kostic that was shared by him in a post at about the beginning of December(?) or so. The info you get when you start the game, related to the contributors, difficulty level etc. refers to Patch E...

ok, so it's SSHIP 097 patch E + KCC. I'll have a look.

**Blackader** · February 12, 2021, 03:58 PM

I wonder if it not just possible to take the "papal state" lines from the descr-campaign-ai of vanilla and to integrate them in the descr-campaign-ai of the mod, replacing current "papal state" lines. Or it will completely mess up everything ? Another option would be to do the same from the original SS descr-campaign-ai (as far as I remember, the SS pope is not so aggressive).

**robbyh** · April 07, 2021, 03:41 AM

Any scenarios when you give the pope settlements and why?

**Jurand of Cracow** · April 07, 2021, 04:13 AM

cheesy tactics, IIRC, you can give him Sardigna et Corsica to keep him at bay (and do something else, I don't remember, it's somewhere in the @Alavaria entries).
But I would think it's unhistorical so one should deal with him without resorting to such things... see the link in my sig.

**robbyh** · April 07, 2021, 04:31 AM

Originally Posted by Jurand of Cracow

cheesy tactics, IIRC, you can give him Sardigna et Corsica to keep him at bay (and do something else, I don't remember, it's somewhere in the @Alavaria entries).
But I would think it's unhistorical so one should deal with him without resorting to such things... see the link in my sig.

Good point, which prob end my question i would say

I never seen that list before, like it and have to admit im guilty of point 2 and 3, without that im pretty good, playing like this will even make the game more fun. Thanks

**FragBait** · April 26, 2021, 09:01 AM

Yeah, he backstab-ed me as well playing as Pisa, wasn't happy with ally doing that and then getting excommunicated! Fortunately was able to swing enough troops back to defeat his army, just, and over next few turns drove him back to Rome. He wouldn't get the message so captured Rome and even then he would not accept piece, even if I offered to return Rome and pay 20k. I was worried he would call Crusade on Rome so ended up selling everything not nailed down in the city and letting it rebel back to him, then waited for him to sally forth and reduced his army to a few dozen men before laying siege to the city again and after about 6 more turns was able to get them to surrender and become my vassal. Was still excommunicated but I got 100,000 florins next turn for my trouble, bit of compensation I guess. About 20 turns later my FL died and I've been reconciled but most of my generals have bad piety traits so that's going to take a while to fix. Anyway now he's got a shell of a city and I get all his excess cash. Just to be sure I keep the surrounding cities with good garrisons but so far after 50 turns he's been a good little pope. HRE still at war with me but I'm slowly hollowing them out. Most other factions not happy with me but that seems to come with increasing size so no great issue there - it is Total War after all right.

**Just let me post** · April 26, 2021, 04:21 PM

Originally Posted by Blackader

I wonder if it not just possible to take the "papal state" lines from the descr-campaign-ai of vanilla and to integrate them in the descr-campaign-ai of the mod, replacing current "papal state" lines.

I did just that, it seems to work fine so far

You can test this CAI by downloading it from this thread