Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

[Shoebopp]

There are two units (Scutarii Swordsmen and Galatianised Swordsmen) that have a few unarmored models, and a majority of armored ones. Thus their armor of 5 seems consistent, but some of those armored models have chainmail. EBII seems to value chainmail more than linothorax (the full linothorax Thracian Colonists have an armor of 6 while the full chainmail Marian Cohort have an armor of 9), so those two units could have their armor buffed from 5 to 6. For the Galatianised Swordsmen, their mass could also be buffed to 1.1 just like other 6-armor units.

[QuintusSertorius]

Eh, nobody really worked all day except slaves on average, even peasants, during planting and harvest weeks they wouldn't have much free time, but like the other half of the year, especially winter would be quite filled with free time for everyone, except slaves ofc.

A visit to the gymnasion wasn't an hour or two of exercise; but a half-day affair where you'd train, get a massage, bathe and spend long hours in conversation with your peers. Men who actually have to work for a living don't have that kind of free time regularly.

[randy_cat]

I think general's bodyguards need to be nerfed, too many campaigns across many mods/games have been made easy by just hoarding generals and use them as either battlefield super shock troops or overpowered flanking units. At least it works well in the early game and saves you a lot of trouble. The ai is dumb and doesn't realize the potential so only the player can take advantage of it.

[Mamlaz]

A visit to the gymnasion wasn't an hour or two of exercise; but a half-day affair where you'd train, get a massage, bathe and spend long hours in conversation with your peers. Men who actually have to work for a living don't have that kind of free time regularly.

You wouldn't drill or train for war in the gymnasium, that was for sports?

Secondly you could still go to the gymnasium even if you had little time, it is not as if it was a societal rule that unless you had the day off to socialize, you shouldn't even come there lol?

Thirdly again, during late fall and winter, most people really wouldn't have that much to do.

[randy_cat]

If conflict was imminent, the citizens in arms would probably have some time to drill and train their bodies before the actual battle. Even if it was only 1 month let's say, it's still better than nothing i guess. Then, just marching and gathering wood, costructing camps with all their armor on, since there was always the possibility of a surprise attack thus soldiers did all their duty while wearing their panoply, was training enough. In fact the romans kept the soldiers in shape by doing regular marches while wearing their armor and shields, they constructed camps, gathered wood, drill themselves with heavy wooden swords to keep their arms strong. I dunno about the greeks but it is likely they did something similar to keep the troops in shape. An army that could quickly make a camp, construct siege engines, march for miles without exhausting themselves, was much valuable and needed in times of war.

[QuintusSertorius]

You wouldn't drill or train for war in the gymnasium, that was for sports?

Secondly you could still go to the gymnasium even if you had little time, it is not as if it was a societal rule that unless you had the day off to socialize, you shouldn't even come there lol?

Thirdly again, during late fall and winter, most people really wouldn't have that much to do.

There was no distinction between war and sports, many of the original Olympic events, like the run in full panoply (hoplitodromos), were designed to replicate war-useful activities.

If you wanted to be thought of as a churl, and not be invited to the right symposia, fail to make important social connections and so on, sure. Greeks were not like Romans, their societal rules prized gregariousness.

The prominent men were there all year-round, not just when planting or harvest weren't occupying their time. That's the difference between the upper part of the hoplite class and those lower down.

[randy_cat]

Many sports had probably their origins in military practices, like marching, running, throwing javelins, wrestling, pancratium, weight lifting... most of all the cohesion of the phalanx formation was valued by the greeks. They prized gregariousness for a reason, it made them capable not only in social life but also in battle. This kind of organization was beaten by roman professional troops tho.

[Mamlaz]

Regardless, I would very much wager that even the lowest ranking troops in the region would have quite a bit of training over the years, just not structured.

I would very much doubt that even the skirmishing troops would not be trained, since their lives quite depended on speedy attacks and retreats in large groups.

The main argument imo is the notion of tactical training, fighting in large set armies being lacking.

In the sense of smaller troops or individual soldiers by themselves, the training was, at least in my opinion, there.