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Thread: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

  1. #301

    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    don't know if this thread serve of this kind of comparisson. but IMO . Váru(both versions)>Dranik Gund> everything else. In a case of Dranik Gund, you get fair odds for auto-battles, unfair outcome from manual battle. They need more love to degrade them from demigods into ''just'' elites.

  2. #302

    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maroslav View Post
    don't know if this thread serve of this kind of comparisson. but IMO . Váru(both versions)>Dranik Gund> everything else. In a case of Dranik Gund, you get fair odds for auto-battles, unfair outcome from manual battle. They need more love to degrade them from demigods into ''just'' elites.
    On battlemap, oxybeles beats them all.

  3. #303

    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    Regarding the Bosphorian Horse Archers, why do they have a measly armor of 3? Some of them are clearly wearing chainmail yet they have the same armor stats as the Aorsi and Alan Horse Archers who described as wearing "leather armor".

    Would it make sense if they have the armor level of 4, similar to the Siraces Riders?

  4. #304
    QuintusSertorius's Avatar EBII Hod Carrier
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    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tactics Mayers View Post
    Regarding the Bosphorian Horse Archers, why do they have a measly armor of 3? Some of them are clearly wearing chainmail yet they have the same armor stats as the Aorsi and Alan Horse Archers who described as wearing "leather armor".

    Would it make sense if they have the armor level of 4, similar to the Siraces Riders?
    Possibly, I'll have another look.

  5. #305

    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sar1n View Post
    On battlemap, oxybeles beats them all.
    I found myself good with oxybeles in siege fights. on fields they are just good for lure enemies from high positions.

  6. #306

    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maroslav View Post
    I found myself good with oxybeles in siege fights. on fields they are just good for lure enemies from high positions.
    Then you're not using it right. Oxybeles+phalanx=crispy enemies. I score 300+ kills with one unit of oxybeles almost every large battle.

  7. #307

    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    I'm not a fan of siege units, but that sure does sound nice, Sar1n. Might give it a try.
    I recommend a pugio rather than a spear, because in close quarters combat, a dagger will serve you better than a spear.

    Rad, 2016.

  8. #308

    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sar1n View Post
    Then you're not using it right. Oxybeles+phalanx=crispy enemies. I score 300+ kills with one unit of oxybeles almost every large battle.
    Yes, and how much of that is friendly fire, really man. or you just do crazy micro in battles, that is not something i enjoy. in narrow streets + katapeltai lithoboloi, they may do even more, pure enemy kills.

  9. #309

    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maroslav View Post
    Yes, and how much of that is friendly fire, really man. or you just do crazy micro in battles, that is not something i enjoy. in narrow streets + katapeltai lithoboloi, they may do even more, pure enemy kills.
    Not much micro, and if you pay attention, you won't cause FF.

    It's simple positioning. Let me demonstrate. The battle is on hard difficulty, on completely flat terrain, against top notch Romani polybian army, consisting of roughly 50% Roman troops, 50% high quality/elite allied (pedites extraordinarii, cohors sociorum, sabelli and tarantine cavalry, balearic slingers).

    Initial positioning. Four phalanx units, five ranks deep as front line. On each flank, recessed heavy spearmen unit to protect the flanks of phalanx, and unit of thracian colonists to act as reserve. Notice how the two oxybeles units are positioned-I used two in this battle to demonstrate, usually my offensive armies have one lithoboloi unit and one oxybeles. They're a bit behind friendly troops to get some cleareance, and aiming at the opposite flank.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    After some initial bombardment as armies close, here we see how it works once lines close. The oxybeles aims at opposite flank, shooting nearly parallel to its phalanx line into narrow, elliptical beaten zone in front of the phalanx unit at the flank. At this range, oxybeles is accurate enough to avoid FF unless you mess up and target unit that's charging into your phalanx, in which case the oxybeles might improperly compensate for their movement and send a bolt into own ranks, or unit too close, so there isn't enough clearance to lob the shot over your troops.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    The results are quite impressive. Notice the unusual killed/captured ratio, I let the battle grind on a bit longer before decisive action, and did not pay attention to cavalry when taking screenshots and stuff, to demonstrate the damage. You can see part of one "beaten zone" that was against my right flank...Pontic Fried Romans.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    And that concludes brief introduction to the art of artillery.

  10. #310

    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    Yesterday, I was defnding a bridge with 2 phalangitai + 1 Agema Phalangitai. Then I shot at the ennemy with my Katapultai (fire bullets). Massive friendly though they were 50 metters behing. Battle lost. I think I'll reverse back to Oxybeles, or maybe just stop the auto-fire altogether.

  11. #311

    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    I always use catapults when i want t conquer a city,this means that during the "campaign" i face massive land battles,in my opinion and strategy first of all disable the "fire at will",find an elevated territorry if possible and put them just behind the first or second lone,if there is no hill etc.put them in your flanks just outside the lines,but have light infantry or cavalry to cover them.also enable the fire ammo
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  12. #312

    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    Lithoboloi and onager have quite narrow zone for precision firing, after which the accuracy drops off significantly and it's dangerous to target units close to yours, and large dead zone too close where they can't hit at all, but they do huge damage with flaming shots if they hit dead on. Oxybeles has rather wide zone for precision firing and no dead zone, but fast shots that can hit friendlies in the way if there isn't enough clearance, less kills per shot, but faster rate of fire. Scorpion is rather mediocre TBH...it can hit over longest distances, but kills only one enemy per shot. It needs more launchers, and be more abundant to serve as standard ranged complement to legions, as it was IRL.

  13. #313

    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    I noticed Gaisatoi are like, really, really fast. allowing them to outrun and keep up with any routing infantry unit. Is this intended? There are many other units similiarly lightly equipped and physically conditioned, including ones that are also naked, but none of them seem to be as fat as Gaisatoi.

  14. #314
    QuintusSertorius's Avatar EBII Hod Carrier
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    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    Quote Originally Posted by nvm View Post
    I noticed Gaisatoi are like, really, really fast. allowing them to outrun and keep up with any routing infantry unit. Is this intended? There are many other units similiarly lightly equipped and physically conditioned, including ones that are also naked, but none of them seem to be as fat as Gaisatoi.
    Yes they are, and intentional. All elites have a higher movement speed than regular units, and they have a little boost for lacking armour.

  15. #315

    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sar1n View Post
    Scorpion... ...It needs more launchers, and be more abundant to serve as standard ranged complement to legions, as it was IRL.
    This.

  16. #316

    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    It's about time I contribute.

    Someone has a little mancrush on the Cretan archers.

    Most of Cretan archers wear helmets, and one model is sporting a linothorax. Their armor rating is 5.
    The Hemithorakitai are a bit better armored - all models have helmets, one linothorax. Their armor rating is 4.
    The Jewish spearmen are armored equal to the Hemithorakitai. Their armor rating is 3.

    The Cretans win wars for me, but this does not add up.

    Round them all to 4, maybe?
    Last edited by Rad; January 15, 2019 at 12:44 PM.
    I recommend a pugio rather than a spear, because in close quarters combat, a dagger will serve you better than a spear.

    Rad, 2016.

  17. #317
    QuintusSertorius's Avatar EBII Hod Carrier
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    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rad View Post
    It's about time I contribute.

    Someone has a little mancrush on the Cretan archers.

    Most of Cretan archers wear helmets, and one model is sporting a linothorax. Their armor rating is 5.
    The Hemithorakitai are a bit better armored - all models have helmets, one linothorax. Their armor rating is 4.
    The Jewish spearmen are armored equal to the Hemithorakitai. Their armor rating is 3.

    The Cretans win wars for me, but this does not add up.

    Round them all to 4, maybe?
    That's a reasonable shout, lines up with their relative costs as well.

  18. #318

    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    I had to google what reasonable shout means
    I recommend a pugio rather than a spear, because in close quarters combat, a dagger will serve you better than a spear.

    Rad, 2016.

  19. #319
    QuintusSertorius's Avatar EBII Hod Carrier
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    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rad View Post
    I had to google what reasonable shout means
    Sorry, I should know better than using British-isms on an international forum.

  20. #320

    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    Since I've been fighting the Sabeans lately, I decided to check their roster.

    I have some suggestions:

    1. Nerf the armor rating of the Bedouin axemen, archers and camel riders to 1 - they don't wear any helmets, body armor or thick clothing.

    2. Bump the armor of the Arabian east coast levies to 3 - They have a lot of helmets and at least two forms of body armor.

    3. Nerf the armor rating of the Sabaen commune levy to 1, very arguably 2 - 3 is way too much for a unit that doesn't have armor/thick clothing and only has one helmet model.
    I recommend a pugio rather than a spear, because in close quarters combat, a dagger will serve you better than a spear.

    Rad, 2016.

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