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Thread: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

  1. #201

    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    Germanic club infantry - armor rating of 2, but no armor, not even thick clothing.
    What should be the armor rating for such troops? 1 or 0?

  2. #202

    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    About the unarmored troops... are you folks looking into this?
    I find it umbalanced that some unarmored troops have an armor rating of 2 (even as much as 3!), while others have 1 or 0.

  3. #203

    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    Iranian medium cavalry - armor rating of 4 - seems too high.

  4. #204

    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    You are making a great job here. Hope the EB team use it.

  5. #205

    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    Thureopherontes Hippeis - shield rating of 2 - too low, compared to other similarly shielded cavalry units?
    Last edited by Rad; December 16, 2017 at 04:21 AM.

  6. #206

    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    I think that the Spartiates are underpowered.

    And before you all roll your eyes, this isn't me being an annoying 300-fanboy.

    In EB I (which, I know, is a completely different game and I should in no way be comparing EB II to it), Spartiates were, essentially, Epilektoi Hoplitai. The one difference was that they had an extra point of moral, at the cost of one point of defence. They also had higher stamina.

    Now, take EB II's Spartiates compared to EB II's Epilektoi.



    Not only do EB II's Spartiates have less defence, they also have less morale, and less stamina (although their shield rating is better).

    Now I know that its 272 BC and Sparta's heyday is long gone, but this doesn't make sense to me. Surely Spartiates should be at least as good, if not better, than the standard elite hoplites of other city-states?

    As it stands, it looks to me like the Spartiates are just a sub-par version of the Epilektoi, but slightly cheaper and only recruitable in Sparta itself. Why use them at all, if not for role-play purposes?

    I just don't understand why such an exclusive elite unit would be inferior to the generic elite unit that you can recruit anywhere (relatively speaking).

    Again, not being a Spartan fanboy (well, maybe a just little). Just curious as to why the Spartiates were nerfed relative to the Epilektoi.

  7. #207

    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    Apologies, it seems that the images of the Spartiate's/Epilektoi's stats didn't come up on my last post.

    Spartiate:

    Primary Weapon


    Type: spear
    Attack: 11
    Charge: 6
    Lethality: 1
    Attributes: light_spear, spear_bonus_6
    Defence


    Armour: 9
    Shield: 7
    Skill: 9
    Recruitment


    Soldiers: 48
    Cost: 1620
    Upkeep: 405
    Turns: 1
    Mental


    Morale: 7
    Discipline: disciplined
    Training: highly trained
    Other


    Hit Points: 1
    Mass: 1.2
    Attributes: Can board ships, Can hide in forests, Hardy, Power charge
    Formation: square
    Side/Back spacing: 0.93/1.13
    Ownership: Koinion Hellenon

    Epilektoi:

    Primary Weapon


    Type: spear
    Attack: 11
    Charge: 28
    Lethality: 1
    Attributes: light_spear, spear_bonus_6
    Defence


    Armour: 11
    Shield: 6
    Skill: 9
    Recruitment


    Soldiers: 48
    Cost: 1800
    Upkeep: 450
    Turns: 1
    Mental


    Morale: 8
    Discipline: disciplined
    Training: highly trained
    Other


    Hit Points: 1
    Mass: 1.3
    Attributes: Can board ships, Can hide in forests, Inspires nearby units, Hardy, Frightens cavalry
    Formation: square
    Side/Back spacing: 1.13/1.86
    Ownership: Koinion Hellenon




  8. #208
    QuintusSertorius's Avatar EBII Hod Carrier
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    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    Spartiatai aren't Epilektoi, nor are they meant to be equivalent. Epilektoi are the very best from all the Greeks, Spartiatai are just the best of Lakonike (the very best would have been added to the Epilektoi). They're veteran hoplites, not elites. That's why they're cheaper.

    Once again, however they were in EB1 is irrelevant, it's not suggestive or indicative of how things should be in EBII.

  9. #209

    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    Quote Originally Posted by QuintusSertorius View Post
    Spartiatai aren't Epilektoi, nor are they meant to be equivalent. Epilektoi are the very best from all the Greeks, Spartiatai are just the best of Lakonike (the very best would have been added to the Epilektoi). They're veteran hoplites, not elites. That's why they're cheaper.

    Once again, however they were in EB1 is irrelevant, it's not suggestive or indicative of how things should be in EBII.
    Ah, I see. So they'd be a "Tier-2" unit, as opposed to the "Tier-1" units such as the Epilektoi, or the Hyapasti?

  10. #210

    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rad View Post
    Thureopherontes Hippeis - shield rating of 2 - too low, compared to other similarly shielded cavalry units?
    Their thureos is actually a smaller version. The thureopherontes hippotoxotai also have a small shield with a rating of 2.
    The Mezenai on the other hand carryy normal thureos shields, that's why they are sporting a 3.

  11. #211

    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    I thought that might be the case, so I compared them to other thureos cavalry. Doesn't look like there's much of a difference.

  12. #212

    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mac Tire View Post
    Ah, I see. So they'd be a "Tier-2" unit, as opposed to the "Tier-1" units such as the Epilektoi, or the Hyapasti?
    If you are using 1 as the highest tier, yes.

  13. #213
    Marvzilla's Avatar Ducenarius
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    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    Is there a reason for the Pontic Spearmen to have such low ratings, even in defense while carrying quite a big shield ?

  14. #214
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    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rad View Post
    Germanic club infantry - armor rating of 2, but no armor, not even thick clothing.
    What should be the armor rating for such troops? 1 or 0?
    Quote Originally Posted by Rad View Post
    About the unarmored troops... are you folks looking into this?
    I find it umbalanced that some unarmored troops have an armor rating of 2 (even as much as 3!), while others have 1 or 0.
    I'll have to look them over, now we have good images of them from this thread so I don't have to keep firing up the game to review.

    0 is for naked units with no protective accessories at all. 1 is often enough for those with cloaks, thick clothing, some head coverings that aren't just hats. 2 is for those with some proper helmets mixed in with clothing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rad View Post
    Iranian medium cavalry - armor rating of 4 - seems too high.
    Possibly, same goes the Anatolian mediums, who have the same equipment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rad View Post
    Thureopherontes Hippeis - shield rating of 2 - too low, compared to other similarly shielded cavalry units?
    Consistent with other cavalry wielding non-aspides and smaller thureoi.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marvzilla View Post
    Is there a reason for the Pontic Spearmen to have such low ratings, even in defense while carrying quite a big shield ?
    They're levies with basic equipment, carrying regular-sized thureoi. The shield is only one of the defensive stats, and it's standardised based on the type of shield (5 for a thureos). They're hardly wearing any armour (thus the 2) and they're a levied unit (thus the 3 defensive skill).
    Last edited by QuintusSertorius; December 25, 2017 at 06:14 AM.

  15. #215
    Marvzilla's Avatar Ducenarius
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    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    Yeah, I can see that, but most of the Anatolian Levies have a higher rating with similar equipment, is it due to the small scale endemic warfare theyre used to ? Not quite sure if Sindi and Maoetians wouldnt have known it aswell, despite being under the Aegis of Scythians, Sarmatians or Hellens ? Or do the Bosporan Doryphokoi represent something else ?

  16. #216
    QuintusSertorius's Avatar EBII Hod Carrier
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    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marvzilla View Post
    Yeah, I can see that, but most of the Anatolian Levies have a higher rating with similar equipment, is it due to the small scale endemic warfare theyre used to ? Not quite sure if Sindi and Maoetians wouldnt have known it aswell, despite being under the Aegis of Scythians, Sarmatians or Hellens ? Or do the Bosporan Doryphokoi represent something else ?
    The Anatolians represent the highland communities who are raiders - so yes, small-scale endemic warfare. This unit represents the settled farming communities in the Pontic littoral, they're the people who might be raided for the most part.

  17. #217
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    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    Quote Originally Posted by QuintusSertorius View Post
    The Anatolians represent the highland communities who are raiders - so yes, small-scale endemic warfare. This unit represents the settled farming communities in the Pontic littoral, they're the people who might be raided for the most part.
    Hm, one could pose the theory that due to being the raided the Maeotai would have quite the tradition of warfare as well. Though there were often protected by others like the hellenes as far as I understood. Maybe I just like these communities and want to see them be a bit stronger, personal bias

    Are there other specific units planned for the region, maybe something like the Tauricoi or Sindi ? I love AOR units and this region is just really interesting.

  18. #218
    QuintusSertorius's Avatar EBII Hod Carrier
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    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marvzilla View Post
    Hm, one could pose the theory that due to being the raided the Maeotai would have quite the tradition of warfare as well. Though there were often protected by others like the hellenes as far as I understood. Maybe I just like these communities and want to see them be a bit stronger, personal bias

    Are there other specific units planned for the region, maybe something like the Tauricoi or Sindi ? I love AOR units and this region is just really interesting.
    The Maiotian Infantry are used to represent the Sindoi, and the late heavy infantry will be coming soon too (the Bosporitai Logades). There's also a heavy Hoplitai unit for Mikra Skythia kai Pentapolis/Olbia/Khersonesos.

  19. #219
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    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    Quote Originally Posted by QuintusSertorius View Post
    The Maiotian Infantry are used to represent the Sindoi, and the late heavy infantry will be coming soon too (the Bosporitai Logades). There's also a heavy Hoplitai unit for Mikra Skythia kai Pentapolis/Olbia/Khersonesos.
    Nice, the last one is not implemented as of yet ? I really lack some Epilektikoi as Bosporus, or something similar.

  20. #220

    Default Re: Rad compares units - a thread for balancing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marvzilla View Post
    Hm, one could pose the theory that due to being the raided the Maeotai would have quite the tradition of warfare as well. Though there were often protected by others like the hellenes as far as I understood. Maybe I just like these communities and want to see them be a bit stronger, personal bias

    Are there other specific units planned for the region, maybe something like the Tauricoi or Sindi ? I love AOR units and this region is just really interesting.
    Sindoi are already in through the Doryphoroi Pontikoi. For representing the Tauroi one should use the Særægwækha. Though they're translated as maiotian swordsmen they're meant to encompass the Tauroi as well(that's why they're recruitable in Khersones btw) because unit slots are quite tight due to engine restraints and I was givn to understand that there's not enough archeological data justifying another distinct unit.
    In fact, the area is very well covered for the moment and the variety will only further increase once the steppe regionals are done.I you're interested in the north(west)ern pontic littoral you should keep an eye on the twitter feed in the near future

    Edit: Too slow

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