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Thread: Official Historical Army Compositions for 2.2

  1. #1

    Default Official Historical Army Compositions for 2.2

    Hi guys.

    As was previewed online a few months back i started working on a sort of EBII manual focusing on historical army compositions. Since there was a lof of issues with the process i've chosen and very little time, i wasn't able to continue working in that format for the time being.

    However, so you are not left out wondering what good army compositions look like, i've put all the info i've gathered so far from our historians in a easy to read file.

    Keep in mind it's still WIP, and it will be updated as more info is gathered for more factions, but hopefully it will be helpful for you guys already in the state it is in right now.

    Enjoy!

    http://docdro.id/4rh521w
    Last edited by Anubis88; February 10, 2017 at 07:56 AM.

  2. #2
    Darkan's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Official Historical Army Compositions for 2.2

    Thank you!
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  3. #3

    Default Re: Official Historical Army Compositions for 2.2

    Any ideas on Marian armies? I can probably use the camillan/polybian composition as a guide but i would like to hear other opinions too.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Official Historical Army Compositions for 2.2

    Quote Originally Posted by romanius24 View Post
    Any ideas on Marian armies? I can probably use the camillan/polybian composition as a guide but i would like to hear other opinions too.
    Whenever Historians have the time to update the thread i'll update it here and post it so you guys can see it. Ofc this is nowhere near a top priority, so it might take some time.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Official Historical Army Compositions for 2.2

    This is beautiful, and fascinating.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Official Historical Army Compositions for 2.2

    A very pleasant read, thank you, I'm personally more used to fielding more cheap, light, levy troops per stack myself, will have to see if the heavy expensive units make up for their upkeep cost in performance.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Official Historical Army Compositions for 2.2

    Quote Originally Posted by wojtekimbier View Post
    A very pleasant read, thank you, I'm personally more used to fielding more cheap, light, levy troops per stack myself, will have to see if the heavy expensive units make up for their upkeep cost in performance.
    I can assure you they do if used properly

    We will either find a way, or make one.



  8. #8
    Iron Aquilifer's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Official Historical Army Compositions for 2.2

    Still WIP and a great read. Thank you


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  9. #9

    Default Re: Official Historical Army Compositions for 2.2

    Love it, definitelly using this for my games hehe.

    Im a bit confused at the KH composition though. Specially regarding Hemithorikatai. I havent still played 2.2 (as I cant use torrent right now) but this troops used to be widely avaible in good numbers and not too expensive too field but it gets stocked on mercenaries here and pretty low numbers as they seem to share their spot with others. Thought they would have higher presence due to the availability presented in game.

    Also it confuses me how the compsotition seems to sway so much in the further regionalistic info, seeming in all case the proportion of hoplites/thorakitai and hemithorikatai goes up by a lot in smaller armies. Specially in the second case as they seem to feature mroe of thsoe untis that in the actual complete ones.

    Also "non" kretan toxotai arent featured at all. Archers were rare in greece aside from kretans?
    Last edited by Jervaj; June 06, 2016 at 03:04 AM.

    We will either find a way, or make one.



  10. #10

    Default Re: Official Historical Army Compositions for 2.2

    Quote Originally Posted by Jervaj View Post
    Also kretan toxotai arent featured at all. Archers were rare in greece aside from kretans?
    Short story, yeah. Hellenic factions would use archers only in small numbers, either mercenary archers (like Cretans) or in small numbers among those from psiloi (peasants recruited into army in need) that were already familiar with its use, like hunters. Slings were more common, but still rarely used in set peice battles, as hellenic martial culture shunned long ranged weaponry.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Official Historical Army Compositions for 2.2

    Quote Originally Posted by Sar1n View Post
    Short story, yeah. Hellenic factions would use archers only in small numbers, either mercenary archers (like Cretans) or in small numbers among those from psiloi (peasants recruited into army in need) that were already familiar with its use, like hunters. Slings were more common, but still rarely used in set peice battles, as hellenic martial culture shunned long ranged weaponry.
    That's BS, sorry. Peltasts were an integral part of the hoplite based armies and the Greek hoplites had a healthy fear of them, as well as cavalry. They routinely used light forces to harass, raid and ambush the enemy light troops and hoplites.

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  12. #12

    Default Re: Official Historical Army Compositions for 2.2

    Quote Originally Posted by Mythos View Post
    That's BS, sorry. Peltasts were an integral part of the hoplite based armies and the Greek hoplites had a healthy fear of them, as well as cavalry. They routinely used light forces to harass, raid and ambush the enemy light troops and hoplites.
    I believe you misunderstood. He clearly meant bows and slings as long range weapons. Not javelins.
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  13. #13

    Default Re: Official Historical Army Compositions for 2.2

    Mythos: sorry, you've misread him. He said they shunned long-range weaponry, but peltasts are medium-range at best, and short-range is probably the most accurate description.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Official Historical Army Compositions for 2.2

    Based on the numbers presented here, looks like EB2 with huge unit scale is around a 10:1 representation of reality? Maybe closer to 11:1 actually, but it's just cleaner and easier to do quick calculations in your head about battle sizes and casualties and all that with 10...

  15. #15
    QuintusSertorius's Avatar EBII Hod Carrier
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    Default Re: Official Historical Army Compositions for 2.2

    Quote Originally Posted by Dooz View Post
    Based on the numbers presented here, looks like EB2 with huge unit scale is around a 10:1 representation of reality? Maybe closer to 11:1 actually, but it's just cleaner and easier to do quick calculations in your head about battle sizes and casualties and all that with 10...
    That's what I assume when looking at Huge unit scale, 1:10 scale.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Official Historical Army Compositions for 2.2

    A pair of questions:

    One is about garrisons. Im never too sure what to sue for them and in what numbers. I dedicated usually small amounts of levy/citizien troops (hoplites and psiloi for hellenic factions mostly). 3-4 units, most of them usually on the free upkeep type (although not all beneifitting from it). Also later with factions as KH I used to have one epilektoi per league member representing the elites of the given poleis (very rarelly getting out of their region).

    For non hellenic though I always have more doubts.

    The other question is about Spartan bodyguards. It seems spartans now use the spartiate hoplitai unit instead of the general KH bodyguard. I like it because its flavourful but Im not fully satisified witht he implementation because it makes those FM actually weaker.
    The spartans hoplites although strong are weaker than the elite hoplites the other FM get. The advanatage is you get full unit members which compensates until you realise you get to pay full maintenance for it and the numbers dont refresh overtime liek the other bodyguards. Making it quite weaker in the long run specially given the difficulty of retraining spartan hoplitai.

    We will either find a way, or make one.



  17. #17
    QuintusSertorius's Avatar EBII Hod Carrier
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    Default Re: Official Historical Army Compositions for 2.2

    I tend to use free upkeep units for the bulk of a garrison (whatever's local), but particularly in foreign locales, 2-3 factional units to protect the governor.

    Hmmm, they're going to have to use regular KH bodyguards, non-standard ones create issues you've highlighted in not being restored properly, or being influenced by FM Influence.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Official Historical Army Compositions for 2.2

    For the Camillian armies there is a cavalry unit called "BG aka extrodinarii" but I cant find anything like that ingame?

  19. #19

    Default Re: Official Historical Army Compositions for 2.2

    BG= Body Guard unit/General. Extraordinarii are not in the game. I think they are meant to be the Polybian cavalry if still planned.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Official Historical Army Compositions for 2.2

    I see, so one general only per army? if so Im abusing that pretty hard.

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