Ok, convince me

[RakeinWaiting]

Hello all,

I am going to lay my cards down from the start: I have no interest in fantasy games.

I am, however, a huge total war fan and have been following the release of Warhammer with interest.

This coincides with a curious lack of enthusiasm for my current total war titles. I have seen the map of Europe so many times im sick of it and even Shogun 2 is looking a bit stale (Easily my favorite thus far).

So, convince me this game is worth buying. The graphics look fantastic but I hesitate. Would you get more out of the game if your knew the Warhammer lore? How deep are the factions? (there are only 4) Are Chaos Warriors not to OP? (I got so tired of realm divide in Shogun 2 and want and end game that dosent crush me) How big is the campaign map? Are the objectives on it achievable?

I have been burned recently in the past with my purchases (Rome 2 was lackluster and star wars battlefront is empty) so I want to talk to players of the game before I do anything.

Regards,

Rake

[Shadow88]

Well on the lore front; you probably would get a bit more out of it if you're familiar with it as very little of the lore is conveyed in-game. You could probably enjoy it just fine without knowing any of the lore, though, at least beyond some of the basics you can find on websites like Lexicanum. I wouldn't go on there just to research the game, more use it to answer any questions you might have while playing (like why the dwarfs are so hell-bent on avenging even minor slights against them).

There may be far fewer factions compared to other TW games, but keep in mind that each one plays very differently to the others.

• The Empire are the closest to a traditional TW faction and are something of an all-rounder race.
• The Dwarfs have high morale and are almost universally heavily-armoured, but they are lacking in both cavalry (having none) and speed. This means that even when they're the aggressors in a fight, they're best taking a defensive position and forcing the enemy to come to them, while making them slog through hell to reach you, being constantly bombarded by artillery and ranged fire (of which they have some of the best in the game). Their melee troops are less for killing the enemy and more to pin them in place while Quarrellers and Thunderers (crossbow and rifle troops, respectively) fire over their heads into the enemy's rear ranks. Their only fast units are Gyrocopters and Gyrobombers - the latter requiring a fair bit of micro-management as its bombs must be dropped manually while it's over the enemy ranks.
• The Greenskins are the exact opposite of the Dwarfs - low morale, lacking in armour, but with large unit sizes and their low morale also means they're quicker to recover from routing (it doesn't have to recover as far for them to return to player control). They also have a variety of monstrous units at their disposal that can require a significant investment on the enemy's part to bring down (and the Giant works well for breaking down gates in sieges, so you don't have to build battering rams). Some of their augmentative spells are also some of the best in the game, with one giving a unit about a +55 increase to Melee Attack. Their goblin wolf rider cavalry units are also incredibly fast, able to harass the enemy's flanks or pepper them with arrows while skirmishing.
• The Vampire Counts have zero ranged units, not even artillery. Their morale mechanic, however, is totally different. They will never route, never flee from the battle and each one will fight to the last. At the point where a unit would normally start running, however, the magic keeping them animated starts failing and the unit begins crumbling, taking damage over time until the whole unit dies or their "morale" is restored. Many of their units cause fear or terror, weakening the enemy's morale, and their ready access to flying units (namely the expendable Fell Bats) can let them quickly tie up enemy missile troops or artillery and keep them from firing on the bulk of the army. One of their Legendary Lords, Mannfred von Carstein, is both a potent melee combatant and a powerful spellcaster. One of his spells, Spirit Leech, has gotten something of a bad reputation in multiplayer because it is very good at sniping the enemy general (being a potent, direct-damage, single-target spell). Beyond Mannfred, just about every Lord available to the VC is a spellcaster. Those with access to the Lore of Death (like Mannfred and the generic Necromancer) can raise units of zombies or skeleton warriors mid-battle, having them rise from the ground in areas that, in a traditional TW game, would be considered safe - like right behind the artillery or in the perfect spot to get a rear-charge on the weakest point of the enemy's front line. Not to mention some of the best monstrous units available, two of which can fly.
• The Warriors of Chaos (playable as a DLC faction) also lack missile troops save for the Hellcannon artillery piece and Marauder Horsemen with throwing axes (short-ranged light cav). Unlike the VCs, however, a vast majority of their roster is armoured and many are shielded (armour requires the attacker to have armour-piercing capabilities unless they want to be bogged down for a long while, while shields negate a percentage of ranged shots), making them very durable on their approach and, when combined with their good morale, can keep them in the fight for a while. They also have access to dangerous monstrous troops and a variety of spellcasters to support the infantry.
• Bretonnia is currently only playable in custom battles, but current speculation is that they will be enabled for campaign play as a free update in the future (along with getting the rest of their roster from the tabletop). Their units generally tend towards two extremes - cheap, poorly-trained, expendable peasants meant to provide missile support, hold the line or harass the enemy as light-cavalry, and the elite mounted knights who steal all the glory from the peasants when they charge into the enemy's flanks or rear. Their Pegasus Knights also give them a fair degree of flexibility, being airborne heavy cavalry who can descend on the enemy wherever they'll do the most damage (provided, like a lot of flying units, that they don't get shot down in the process).

With the campaign; Chaos can be OP and they can be a non-issue, it really depends on the political situation in the northern human lands at the time they start invading. If Kislev's already at war with a lot of other human nations, then they're probably screwed as Chaos will swoop in while their armies are elsewhere and raze their settlements. If everyone's pretty chummy with each other, then the northern nations will be able to provide a united front against them. And if you're playing as the Dwarfs or Greenskins, then there's every chance they'll be too busy tearing up the Empire and Vampire Counts to bother coming into your mountains or the Badlands. Even if they do decide to come for you, passage out of the human lands is limited to a number of chokepoints you can sit armies in to hold them off.

Biggest flaw with the campaign, though, is that the AI likes to spam lots of Heroes* and uses them frequently to screw your armies and settlements over. So, if nothing else, don't neglect getting your own Heroes and training them up quickly.

*Heroes are this game's equivalent of Agents. Heroes can either act on the campaign map as Agents or join an army and fight alongside them on the battlefield; don't be fooled by them only being a single person on the field in the latter case, though, as each one is either a powerful warrior or has access to magic that more than makes up for their lack of numbers. The Empire's Warrior Priest, for instance, may just be a lone bald guy in heavy plate with a huge hammer, but he can unlock abilities that let him greatly buff your troops, if only by boosting their morale to keep them in the fight. The Empire's Witch Hunter, as well, can be used as an assassin on key enemy targets with his Accuse ability (a single-target ability that deals a lot of damage). I don't think I need elaborate on the benefits of having spellcasters in your army.

[Humble Warrior]

Hello all,

I am going to lay my cards down from the start: I have no interest in fantasy games.

I am, however, a huge total war fan and have been following the release of Warhammer with interest.

This coincides with a curious lack of enthusiasm for my current total war titles. I have seen the map of Europe so many times im sick of it and even Shogun 2 is looking a bit stale (Easily my favorite thus far).

So, convince me this game is worth buying. The graphics look fantastic but I hesitate. Would you get more out of the game if your knew the Warhammer lore? How deep are the factions? (there are only 4) Are Chaos Warriors not to OP? (I got so tired of realm divide in Shogun 2 and want and end game that dosent crush me) How big is the campaign map? Are the objectives on it achievable?

I have been burned recently in the past with my purchases (Rome 2 was lackluster and star wars battlefront is empty) so I want to talk to players of the game before I do anything.

Regards,

Rake

I have seen statements like this before and never understand them.

1. There are a dozen topics on the pros and cons of this game and you can`t read them?

2. You need someone to convince you? Really? Don`t you have independent thought? I have a golden bridge at the end of a rainbow for sale for £1000, cheap and yours forever. It`s golden and at the end of a rainbow. Just send a cheque to HUmblesarcasm at makedumbassthreads@hotmail.com

3. Perhaps you see yourself as too good to read other threads and decided you need people to form a line in front of you and beg you to buy the game like some high and mighty Emperor?

I certainly have no need to convince and nobody should. You alone know what you like and no one here can tell you.

[ostendadler]

A. Races really have a different play style which is really a breath of fresh air

B. You're no longer in pre-order fog of war so try it at some friends or something ... or buy it and get your money back if you don't like it. You're not getting married for 20 years and having two kids here ;-)

C. You don't need to be lore friendly (I wasn't) simple really - each race represents a different shade of good or evil.

D. Why do you have to be condescending to the OP? Its forum life not your neighbor moving furniture at 4am.

E. If you're afraid vanilla might not just cut the mustard (eh?) wait for the mods. Rome 2 DEI saved the day and so did other mods in previous titles.

F. Hodor !


D.

[RakeinWaiting]

Thank you Shadow88 for the informative post and thank you Humble Warrior for the *ahem* passionate response.

After more online research and a day looking at the box in my local store, I have decided against buying it for now. Will wait for the sales/more FLC

Thanks all,

Rake

[Shadow88]

Thank you Shadow88 for the informative post and thank you Humble Warrior for the *ahem* passionate response.

After more online research and a day looking at the box in my local store, I have decided against buying it for now. Will wait for the sales/more FLC

Thanks all,

Rake

Normally I'd also suggest you make use of the Steam refund system to get about an hour and a half of gameplay yourself in to see how it goes (I know the refund cut-off is two hours, but if you're just playing to test it then you're not going to actually get two hours of gameplay). But with a Total War game, you might need more time than that.

[Campaigner]

If it really does not entice you. Waiting until they release a few expansions would not hurt in the slightest. In conclusion do not buy until the game convinces you.

[TheRomanRuler]

Thank you Shadow88 for the informative post and thank you Humble Warrior for the *ahem* passionate response.

After more online research and a day looking at the box in my local store, I have decided against buying it for now. Will wait for the sales/more FLC

Thanks all,

Rake

That is good decision certainly. This game feels like Paradox game, decent at launch but (hopefully) great after plenty of patches and DLCs and expansions.