"Awaken tribe" Why not Vassals?

[Seiker]

Why when you awaken a tribe as Chaos the are millitary allies and not vassals?
it would make more sense to be their overlord just because you have "awaken them"

[AlliedZero]

Why when you awaken a tribe as Chaos the are millitary allies and not vassals?
it would make more sense to be their overlord just because you have "awaken them"

I wish there was a way to fix the chaos campaign and this might be one of the ways.

For example, in order to get certain Legendary lords you have to awaken 4 tribes...so you want to go out and awaken the tribes right? Wrong. Go out and awaken 4 tribes, subjugate the former tribes and prepare for your invasion of the low lands. Except...by the time you do this your awoken tribes decide to start declaring war on eachother forcing you to take sides. It is extremely frustrating.

So maybe by making them become your vassal AND allied with other vassals, etc. That'd be great.

Also, I agree with this because it is frustrating having the awoken tribes and then as you are ready to invade the south you see them allying with Kislev or refusing to attack or declare war on any factions that you want them to.

As of right now, I awaken and then destroy, leaving only 1 awoken tribe...who still declared war on me eventually.

[the_mango55]

It's kind of gamey, but if you awaken a tribe and then attack them again next turn you can make them a vassal.

[Dorkus_Malorkus]

It is amazing that this kind of problem was missed. I played chaos for a few turns and immediately thought "these alliances are going to fall apart after 30 turns tops". It's the same type of problem that keeps resurfacing over and over again in these kinds of games. The problem with forcing vassals will be the fact chaos will get insanely strong because they can just get bankrolled by their vassals as well as the big bonuses they get for looting.

[Arimahn]

The whole "Release faction, get betrayed 10 turns later" issue has been a thing since... At least Rome 2, really. How hard is it to add a flag in the files "diplomacy = 0" for say 50 turns.

[Troubleshooter]

Awaken > Attack > Vassalize seems to be the recommended strategy.

[Floppinger]

I didn´t have issue with that. You awaken them, they start going at eachothers throat and instead of lots of weak tribes you have 2-3 strong tribes in norsca. They go south and wreck the empire anyways, they don´t need to be your vassals or allies to do that. As Chaos you get so much income from battles and sacking that you don´t need anything from vassals.

Sure you could just leave the Varg and Skaeling up there and not bother, but battling your way through norsca first is a good way to get money and build up your hordes early game.

Let them fight eachother, the weak die, the strong emerge stronger, that´s the way of Chaos.

[Shadow88]

It's kind of gamey, but if you awaken a tribe and then attack them again next turn you can make them a vassal.

I dunno; maybe the first time, you demonstrate the true power of Chaos. Then you beat their heads in again to remind them who's top dog.

[AlliedZero]

I didn´t have issue with that. You awaken them, they start going at eachothers throat and...

Let them fight eachother, the weak die, the strong emerge stronger, that´s the way of Chaos. poor A.I.

Lol. Don't have that issue but then go on to explain how your campaign panned out exactly like ours...

The only difference is you wrote off the poor A.I. as expert lore mechanics.

[Floppinger]

Lol. Don't have that issue but then go on to explain how your campaign panned out exactly like ours...

The only difference is you wrote off the poor A.I. as expert lore mechanics.

I didn´t say that it didn´t happen to me, I said that I don´t have a problem with that.
They´re not eachothers friends, I don´t see what that has to do with the AI being poor. They just don´t behave like you want them to. They have their own goals, and their main objective, wrecking the Empire, coinsides with yours. And imo, that´s all you need them for.

And my campaign panned out nicely. The Aesling dominated the other tribes. They let the Skaeling live with 3 settlements and took the rest of Norsca and went on to become the most powerful faction. They where number 1 in military and a massive help against the empire. At that point they wheren´t my allies anymore because I chose to not get involved when the tribes fought eachother and focused on Kislev and did Archaons quest battles instead. Them not being my allies anymore didn´t matter, when they where done, their stacks started pouring south like locusts.

I´ll admit, the norscans help wasn´t great while they where fighting eachother. They sent some stacks against Kislev and the Empire here and there, but their main forces where occupied in norsca. But if you support the right tribe(s) you can speed up the process quite a bit I think. But awakening them all and expecting them to get along doesn´t work. Maybe there´s an ideal way of awakening only some tribes that are friendly towards eachother but I don´t know.

[Dorkus_Malorkus]

Awaken > Attack > Vassalize seems to be the recommended strategy.

Doesn't all the vassals hate you for betraying everyone though?

[Dorkus_Malorkus]

The whole "Release faction, get betrayed 10 turns later" issue has been a thing since... At least Rome 2, really. How hard is it to add a flag in the files "diplomacy = 0" for say 50 turns.

Not even that. Just make sure all the chaos factions are permanently at war with the humans and dwarfs. Seriously, that's all they needed to do. It really annoys me that CA can make such a stupid mistake after putting in all this effort to make a game.

[AlliedZero]

I didn´t say that it didn´t happen to me, I said that I don´t have a problem with that.
They´re not eachothers friends, I don´t see what that has to do with the AI being poor. They just don´t behave like you want them to. They have their own goals, and their main objective, wrecking the Empire, coinsides with yours. And imo, that´s all you need them for.

And my campaign panned out nicely. The Aesling dominated the other tribes. They let the Skaeling live with 3 settlements and took the rest of Norsca and went on to become the most powerful faction. They where number 1 in military and a massive help against the empire. At that point they wheren´t my allies anymore because I chose to not get involved when the tribes fought eachother and focused on Kislev and did Archaons quest battles instead. Them not being my allies anymore didn´t matter, when they where done, their stacks started pouring south like locusts.

I´ll admit, the norscans help wasn´t great while they where fighting eachother. They sent some stacks against Kislev and the Empire here and there, but their main forces where occupied in norsca. But if you support the right tribe(s) you can speed up the process quite a bit I think. But awakening them all and expecting them to get along doesn´t work. Maybe there´s an ideal way of awakening only some tribes that are friendly towards eachother but I don´t know.

LOL. I love it. So maybe you haven't realllllyyyy played Chaos yet. So the opening missions tell you to subdue and conquer the tribes by awakening them before your assault on the Old World.
How can you subdue what cannot be subdued? Have you actually played a Total War game or is this your first one? I am going to assume this is your first one. Everyone always writes off poor mechanics as being totally in line with what they want. Next we will hear "Oh I love how the AI never flanks and just charges its general in blindly, it just goes so well with the lore. Perfect job CA!" hahahahah. Welcome to Total War.

[Floppinger]

LOL. I love it. So maybe you haven't realllllyyyy played Chaos yet. So the opening missions tell you to subdue and conquer the tribes by awakening them before your assault on the Old World.
How can you subdue what cannot be subdued? Have you actually played a Total War game or is this your first one? I am going to assume this is your first one. Everyone always writes off poor mechanics as being totally in line with what they want. Next we will hear "Oh I love how the AI never flanks and just charges its general in blindly, it just goes so well with the lore. Perfect job CA!" hahahahah. Welcome to Total War.

All I read from you is: "Whaaa, whaaa, all the aggressive norscan tribes don´t want to be my little minions and do as I say. Whaaa, they won´t let me control them. Poor AI! Bad A!"

I´m not fine with everything the AI does, not by a long shot, but this one doesn´t bother me at all. Kislev not having its own unit roster, and imo dying a bit to fast, takes away much more from the Chaos campaign than not having pet norscans.

Far more concerning are the AIs of Estalia, Tilea, the Border Princes and Bretonnia. Estalia, Tilea and the Border Princes got nothing to do in their corner of the world and noone to keep them in check so they always snowball into bretonnian lands and into the Empire. Bretonnia, supposedly a major faction, is ultra weak and simply gets torn apart by its own douchies most of the time, pretty much as if the Empire got killed off by the other empire provinces all the time. The norscans actually do what they´re supposed to do, whether they´re your little pets, allies or not.

[AlliedZero]

All I read from you is: "Whaaa, whaaa, all the aggressive norscan tribes don´t want to be my little minions and do as I say. Whaaa, they won´t let me control them. Poor AI! Bad A!"

I´m not fine with everything the AI does, not by a long shot, but this one doesn´t bother me at all. Kislev not having its own unit roster, and imo dying a bit to fast, takes away much more from the Chaos campaign than not having pet norscans.

Far more concerning are the AIs of Estalia, Tilea, the Border Princes and Bretonnia. Estalia, Tilea and the Border Princes got nothing to do in their corner of the world and noone to keep them in check so they always snowball into bretonnian lands and into the Empire. Bretonnia, supposedly a major faction, is ultra weak and simply gets torn apart by its own douchies most of the time, pretty much as if the Empire got killed off by the other empire provinces all the time. The norscans actually do what they´re supposed to do, whether they´re your little pets, allies or not.

So the Brettonian allies betraying Brettonia is where you draw the line? HAHAHAHA

refer back to my post where you think the AI is bloody brilliant in one instance but flawed int he exact same instance just with a different banner. Holy crap my sides hurt.

[Dorkus_Malorkus]

All I read from you is: "Whaaa, whaaa, all the aggressive norscan tribes don´t want to be my little minions and do as I say. Whaaa, they won´t let me control them. Poor AI! Bad A!"

I´m not fine with everything the AI does, not by a long shot, but this one doesn´t bother me at all. Kislev not having its own unit roster, and imo dying a bit to fast, takes away much more from the Chaos campaign than not having pet norscans.

Far more concerning are the AIs of Estalia, Tilea, the Border Princes and Bretonnia. Estalia, Tilea and the Border Princes got nothing to do in their corner of the world and noone to keep them in check so they always snowball into bretonnian lands and into the Empire. Bretonnia, supposedly a major faction, is ultra weak and simply gets torn apart by its own douchies most of the time, pretty much as if the Empire got killed off by the other empire provinces all the time. The norscans actually do what they´re supposed to do, whether they´re your little pets, allies or not.

My problem is not having 'pet norscans', just that it is pretty strange to rely on dice roles instead of some kind of internal mechanic. I just think the Chaos campaign is a bit broken or unfinished. An easy work around would just be to set all the Chaos factions at war with humans and dwarfs. This would give a good reputation bonus. There are some factions (Dwarf and Human) that Chaos are not enemies with (maybe ones that form after the start?). That has to be an oversight, since I think I could have probably allied with some human factions that were being attacked by other humans/dwarfs.

[Floppinger]

So the Brettonian allies betraying Brettonia is where you draw the line? HAHAHAHA

refer back to my post where you think the AI is bloody brilliant in one instance but flawed int he exact same instance just with a different banner. Holy crap my sides hurt.

Do you know the difference between a medieval kingdom and a bunch of savage tribes? That aside, I clearly saying that Bretonnia (Louen Leoncoeur) is to weak, and gets bullied by its subjects. You must have missed that in your funny little forum crusade to control the norscans.

Also, I never once said the AI was "brilliant", I merely said I had no problem not overlording the norscans. But I find it highly amusing that it causes you to throw such a tantrum.