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Thread: Can't make out how to play with Dwarves... :(

  1. #1

    Default Can't make out how to play with Dwarves... :(

    As the title says.

    I'd observed in my Empire & VC campaigns (On H & VH each) that the dwarves were been massacred all the time. I'd posted about that as well and was told that it's mostly luck of the draw about Confederations so I didn't mind it then. But my next Chaos campaign also had the dwarves wiped out in record time.

    I loaded up a H/H Dwarf campaign for myself.

    It's 60 turns in my second campaigjn (1st was a rage-quit after 50 turns) and I just can't make out how to handle these guys. Their units are crap, they seem to be wearing paper armour, and they run at the first sign of trouble. The Orks are OP for their cost; I haven't lost a single battle yet with them either with Multiplayer or the Custom battle AI. Dwarven artillery is horrible; the artillery tactics that chewed up enemy armies in my Empire campaign do nothing here. Thorgrim is level 20 and has enough buffs to light up half the battlefield like a christmas tree but unarmoured, inexperienced orks still cut through my battle line like cake. Upkeep is excruciating. And then there's the problem of cavalry; I can't even kill half of the routers and they come back good as new, better than new with the experience, in a single turn. My allies seem to be in a race to commit suicide the fastest. In the end, I'm simply getting overwhelmed by all the Waaghs.

    I find that H dwarfs is tougher, far more tougher than VH Empire, Chaos, and VC.

    Plese advice. This campaign isn't challenging. It's just irritating.

    My Tactics:- Warrior line. Crossbows. Artillery. No flankers because I never have the numbers but when I can manage it- miners. Upkeep never allows for better units except for a longbeard or two.

    My Strategy:- Turtle mostly. I take Silver Road and start fending off all the Orks coming along raiding. They chew through everything less than Level 3 defence and are faster than me so I have to babysit settlements to grow them. Within a short time, Zhufbar is wiped out by VCs and Orks and I'm attacking from both sides. I grind down all attackers, expand, turtle again, the process repeats.

    Then Grimgor confederates everything and Waaghs wipe me out.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Can't make out how to play with Dwarves... :(

    I'm playing a co-op game on VH as the dwarfs and using loads of crossbows supported by catapults (nearly half the army), but it's a lot of micro involved to get them to effectively focus fire. Course when they do it makes a lovely mess of people.

    Also there's a skill on the lords that at level 3 makes your basic warriors into proper fighting machines.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Can't make out how to play with Dwarves... :(

    For the dwafs, there is only one tactic: hold the line. Most of the dwarfen units are heavily armoured, so most of the enemy's range units would prove ineffective. Dwarfen range units, on the other hand, are amazing and could somewhat hold themselves in melee (albeit only for a short period of time). My army composition is 1-2 lords, 6-7 crossbows and the rest heavy infantry. I position the crossbow and heavy infantry units in alternating order, so the crossbowmen still have clear view of fire and when the enemy gets close I charge my heavy infantry forward, why the crossbow keeps constant barrage.

    Dealing with cavalry might be difficult. My favourite tactic is concentrated crossbow fire, which seems to drop Orc riders like fly. Be sure to keep some melee unit as back up for the case they get in too close.

    On campaign map, it's a good idea to upgrade all important towns with wall. A rather small number of dwarfs could hold the wall, with the help of Gattling gun-armed towers, against a very large force.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Can't make out how to play with Dwarves... :(

    Quote Originally Posted by RGA View Post
    Most of the dwarfen units are heavily armoured, so most of the enemy's range units would prove ineffective. Dwarfen range units, on the other hand, are amazing and could somewhat hold themselves in melee (albeit only for a short period of time).
    Even goblin archers with zero experience chew up my warriors within 2 minutes. I can break them with concentrated fire from 2 crossbow units but they soon return. And fire from even one of them is enough to kill my crossbows if I'm not careful.

    Dealing with cavalry might be difficult. My favourite tactic is concentrated crossbow fire, which seems to drop Orc riders like fly. Be sure to keep some melee unit as back up for the case they get in too close.
    Maintaining concentrated fire on Ork cavalry units is impossible. They're constantly goin gout of range and the crossbows keep on shifting slowly in nice lines and get chewed up by archer fire if I don't baby sit them.

    On campaign map, it's a good idea to upgrade all important towns with wall. A rather small number of dwarfs could hold the wall, with the help of Gattling gun-armed towers, against a very large force.
    How? Growth is very slow. It takes me almost 30 turns to even get Lvl 2 settlements in Silver Road. It's lvl 60 and I still don't have lvl 3 ones in the province. This is with two lords boosting growth there for almost 40 turns and the Empower guilds switched on.

  5. #5
    M2TWRocks's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Can't make out how to play with Dwarves... :(

    I feel your pain. Dwarf battles were like "ok, I'll just create a battle line with infantry, put some ranged units in front, and flank with my....oh wait." You can build up a decent income in the campaign, but the battles can be aggravating.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Can't make out how to play with Dwarves... :(

    I suppose the simplest way to look at it is that a dwarf army wins by ranged combat. You'll probably win your fair share of brawls too, but the best way for dwarfs to win is force the enemy to engage with you by hitting them with artillery, then shooting them when they approach so that they have to close to melee, then chopping their legs off. There's no movement to be had really, just have to force the enemy to come to you. Even on the attack.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Can't make out how to play with Dwarves... :(

    Check out youtube channel by Surrealbeliefs https://www.youtube.com/user/Surrealbeliefs.
    He has a pretty decent Dwarf campaign videos. But yes - walls are your best friend and longbeards asap

  8. #8

    Default Re: Can't make out how to play with Dwarves... :(

    The dwarf campaign definitely seems relatively difficult compared to the others. Their capital region also can't grow as fast as say the Reikland or Sylvania. Plus it is constantly being attacked by orcs so you may be set back significantly in a campaign if it is raided or sacked early on.

    That said the strength of the Dwarfs is their crossbowmen. Compared to the orc counter parts they are better in melee, better missile defense, better range, and better morale. They are your counter to any orc missiles (infantry or cavalry). You need to protect them with miners or warriors. In a 20 v 20 battle vs orcs early on you should be able to win relatively consistently. You can field effective armies without having to invest a lot into your military buildings early on.

    The orcs want to be constantly fighting so their AI will be hunting down poorly defended settlements to sack and to build up their WAAAGH! This means they will attack other dwarfs and each other. I have had some success with confederation but it has also backfired at times. Other dwarfs will want to confederate if they start losing so pay attention there. Try not to let them get overwhelmed but if they do it is better if you own those regions than the orcs. Especially the capital.

    Don't hesitate to sack some cities yourself and invest that money into your capital region. There is a temptation to try and expand but that is hard to do.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Can't make out how to play with Dwarves... :(

    Thanks. I'll take a look at the videos. Maybe I can get a few pointers.

    I'm thinking of modding in walls for Lvl 2 Dwarf settlements. If they're the best builders and completely focussed on defence, it should make sense that they get early access to walls as well.

  10. #10
    Civitate
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    Default Re: Can't make out how to play with Dwarves... :(

    Weird. I play on Normal, and the Dwarves just wreck the Orks. Just recruit mostly quarrelers and dwarf infantry for a while. Your armies are gonna be smaller, like 12 to 15 units, but they'll still destroy Ork armies. Once you get Thunderers they do even more damage. I think they're one of the easier campaigns. You do have to keep fighting the Orks, though. You can't sit back too long.

  11. #11
    M2TWRocks's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Can't make out how to play with Dwarves... :(

    Quote Originally Posted by Cathal View Post
    Weird. I play on Normal, and the Dwarves just wreck the Orks. Just recruit mostly quarrelers and dwarf infantry for a while. Your armies are gonna be smaller, like 12 to 15 units, but they'll still destroy Ork armies. Once you get Thunderers they do even more damage. I think they're one of the easier campaigns. You do have to keep fighting the Orks, though. You can't sit back too long.
    I think it just depends on how you define difficulty. My Dwarf campaign was relatively easy - their initial location is secure if you wipe out the orcs to the east. And on the battle map, their units are pretty hardy. BUT, you can never wipe an army after defeating them. You route the enemy and they just retreat and return in a few turns. That drives me nuts and makes the campaign a nightmare.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Can't make out how to play with Dwarves... :(

    Quote Originally Posted by Cathal View Post
    Weird. I play on Normal, and the Dwarves just wreck the Orks. Just recruit mostly quarrelers and dwarf infantry for a while. Your armies are gonna be smaller, like 12 to 15 units, but they'll still destroy Ork armies. Once you get Thunderers they do even more damage. I think they're one of the easier campaigns. You do have to keep fighting the Orks, though. You can't sit back too long.
    In my experience it is by far the most difficult or really the one where it seems things they are the most likely to go wrong.

    Orcs is probably the easiest once you learn to think like an orc and just keep fighting and sacking. Just keep fighting until you get a WAAAGH! army and then take a capital city. More enemies means more sacking and more WAAGH! Only really worry about putting money into your major cities and your armies. Get another army, get another WAAAGH! get another capital city. Then the confederations will come in and the green tide just keeps building momentum. If there is a rebellion? Great more fightiness for your next WAAAGH!

  13. #13

    Default Re: Can't make out how to play with Dwarves... :(

    I think Dwarfs on H are tougher than Empire or VC on VH. Try and see.

  14. #14
    craziii's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Can't make out how to play with Dwarves... :(

    if you can't handle hard, try normal?
    fear is helluva drug
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    “The only rule that ever made sense to me I learned from a history, not an economics, professor at Wharton. "Fear," he used to say, "fear is the most valuable commodity in the universe." That blew me away. "Turn on the TV," he'd say. "What are you seeing? People selling their products? No. People selling the fear of you having to live without their products." freakin' A, was he right. Fear of aging, fear of loneliness, fear of poverty, fear of failure. Fear is the most basic emotion we have. Fear is primal. Fear sells.” WWZ

    Have you had your daily dose of fear yet? craziii
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

  15. #15

    Default Re: Can't make out how to play with Dwarves... :(

    Quote Originally Posted by craziii View Post
    if you can't handle hard, try normal?
    Neither helpful nor informative.

  16. #16
    M2TWRocks's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Can't make out how to play with Dwarves... :(

    The grudges were irritating as well. "Attack the army of Gristlebutt Hornswaggler." That guys is like halfway across the map through enemy territory. I guess that's not getting done.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Can't make out how to play with Dwarves... :(

    A bit but they don't seem to affect gameplay much. The diplomacy hit is easily remedied because of all the wars being fought and the public order is easily maintained by making the pub line.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Can't make out how to play with Dwarves... :(

    Well playing VH as Dwarves it's similar to the Empire in that before you actually venture out you need to develop walls in all of your settlements. Once that's done THEN you can move out.

    Also utilize the underway to catch Orc armies which allows you to destroy them.

    Starting off I pretty much had 2 quallerers and grudge thrower and the rest dwarf warriors to give me something to work off of and it seems to be fine even against the goblin archers as the quallerers are able to send them off.

    Once the walls are built I conquered the north part that has a gold mine with my main army and fortunately the dwarves in the south were able to keep the Orcs occupied so by the time I returned I had my main army fending off Orc raiders.

    Now I've upgraded to Longbeards and switching to thunderers (I like guns so sue me. Yes they have less range but I like the fact that they do more damage plus AP).

    Probably will run with 6-8 gunners and the rest longbeards with 1-2 grudge throwers.

    Pretty much when dealing with Orcs you need to tackle their boss. Once he's down the rest will rout easily.

    Also, Dwarves are not MEANT to charge. They are MEANT to HOLD the line. They have a bonus or at least some of them that allows them to negate charges so you never ever want Dwarves to charge unless they are flanking.

  19. #19
    M2TWRocks's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Can't make out how to play with Dwarves... :(

    Quote Originally Posted by Chromium View Post
    A bit but they don't seem to affect gameplay much. The diplomacy hit is easily remedied because of all the wars being fought and the public order is easily maintained by making the pub line.
    Not if you're an obsessive lunatic and want to role-play as a legitimate Dwarf Lord!

  20. #20

    Default Re: Can't make out how to play with Dwarves... :(

    Quote Originally Posted by Cathal View Post
    Weird. I play on Normal, and the Dwarves just wreck the Orks. Just recruit mostly quarrelers and dwarf infantry for a while. Your armies are gonna be smaller, like 12 to 15 units, but they'll still destroy Ork armies. Once you get Thunderers they do even more damage. I think they're one of the easier campaigns. You do have to keep fighting the Orks, though. You can't sit back too long.
    I found that as well Zhufbar to the North is a goner but I actually found that you need a bit of luck, and peace with other Greenskin tribes. A full stack of Dwarves beat a full stack of Greenskins. Once you get going with Greenskins it gets easier but if Hreenskin don't have WWAAGH or lvl 3 infantry, theyvare actually pretty poor.

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