The Elder Scrolls IH, Take II - World/Lore-Building Thread

[Pyrrhus the Molossian]

I'll vote for the Cyrodiil-only RP-IH, but I'll play and mod either.

Ditto.

[Barry Goldwater]

Updated again.

[Xion]

Well, here's what I've been doing with my potential faction claims, besides Markarth while waiting for the vote to end. Making an internal composition map to represent the various vassals of each faction. It's mostly only for rp. I used Dominion for the Ayleid lands as I'm not sure what titles each one would have. Just means what land is controlled by each Ayleid city-state/kingdom/etc. as a vassal to Niryastare or Anutwyll/Nenalata. Used this for a source on the Ayleid location names.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Shornhelm
Dark Purple - Duchy of Shornhelm/Royal Lands
Gold - County of Meir Thorvale/Dawnguard
Lavender - Duchy of White Harbor
Beige - Earldom of the Ykalon Forest
Green - The Ykalon Baronies
Pink - The Ykalon Marches
Orange - Wrothgarian Marches
Red - Earldom of Old Gate

Solitude
Dark Red - Jarldom of Solitude
Blue - Jarldom of Morthal
Rest - Various Thanes of Haafingar or Hjaalmarch

Ayleids of the Niben Bay (lead faction will probably be Anutwyll/Bravil or Nenalata.)
Purple : Dominion of Anutwyll
Orange : Dominion of Sardavar Leed
Gold : Dominion of Wenyandawik
Yellow : Dominion of Nenalata
Light Turquoise : Dominion of Morahame
Pink : Dominion of Bawn
Lavender : Dominion of Atatar
Blue : Dominion of Telepe
Brown : Dominion of Arpenia
Light Green : Dominion of Veyond

Empire of Niryastare
Red - Dominion of Niryastare/Royal Lands
Purple - Dominion of Beldaburo
Blue - Dominion of Varonda
Green - Dominion of Garlas Agea
Light Green - Dominion of Mal Falas
Brown - Abacean Nede tribal vassals
Beige - Deathlands Nede tribal vassals
Pink - Yokudan vassals
Orange - Dominion of proto-Taneth
Yellow - Warden of the Brena/Dominion of proto-Rihad

[Barry Goldwater]

Quite a bit of radio silence here As Xion just demonstrated, us being in the middle of a poll shouldn't get in the way of you starting developing the lore & relationships (both domestic & foreign) of your faction(s), guys. And as I have said, even if we go with the Cyrodiil-only setting your non-Cyrodiilic factions can still have a presence in the game via an events/'News of Men & Mer' thread.

I'll conclude the poll once we have enough players for a viable game and to ensure that there's no tie, say 7 people. (1 less than the number of active players at the conclusion of the Diadochi game) Please do invite anyone you think would be interested guys, especially those who had played the first TES game.

[Kip]

Thanks Xion for honoring our efforts in the last game and preserving our old factions!

I won't vote as I'm unsure if I'll participate, but I've told Barry I'll probably be able to step in if you guys ever just need an impartial die/dice rolled.

[Xion]

I've made a map for the Alessian idea, representing the lands of the various Ayleid city states/kingdoms. I used this as a source. Probably isn't 100% accurate.

Map

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:  Rose - Beldaburo (Gold Coast) Dark Purple - Niryastare Lime - Garlas Agea Orange - Trumbe Dark Green - Varonda Dark Teal - Nonungalo Turquoise - Talwinque Brown - Miscarcand Lavender - Lipsand Tarn Green - Hrotanda Vale Aqua- Wendir Plum - Elenglynn Pink - Ninendava Light Turquoise - Moranda Dark Red - Lindai Yellow - Narfinsel Light Gray - Ceyatatar Dark Yellow - Silorn Light Green - Nornalhorst Indigo - Rielle Crimson - Piukanda Mint - Fanacasecul (near the Temple of the Ancestors) Bisque - Windasel Orchid -Nenyond Twyll Beige - Anga Cobalt - Sercen Olive - Vilverin Silver - Sardavar Leed Cyan - Wenyandawik Salmon - Anutwyll Goldenrod - Sedor Magenta - Beldaburo Red - Nagastani Sienna - Nornal Thistle - Culotte Chartreuse - Bawn Emerald - Telepe Dark Orange - Fanacasecul (on the border with Morrowind) Tomato - Kemen Yellow Green - Mackamentain Navy - Nenalata Slate Gray - Morahame Aquamarine - Atatar Indian Red - Arpenia Purple - Veyond Banana - Hame Cadium Yellow - Ondo Tan - Wendelbek Slate Blue - Welke Dark Turquoise - Malada Gold - Temple of the Ancestors/Umaril the Unfeathered

[Dirty Chai]

Thanks Xion, great map, I think we should use it, for sure.

Since we have all this time, we might take a moment to discuss how Ayleid structure might work..
I think they're basically city-states right? And they're called the "wild" elves primarily because they didn't really develop Cyrodiil beyond building their sprawling cities beneath the surface.. Or at least, that's always been my impression.

When writing briefly about Niryastare in the older IH for my Abecean humans who were rebelled slaves, I kind of pictured the Indochinese "mandala" system, with influence and power among the Ayleids being a matter of hegemony and prestige. Different cities rise and fall in power and influence with their monarchs and their victories and defeats. They probably quarrel quite endlessly, with little wars over just about anything.

The humans are most definitely sorted into tribes, as I think the lore seems to suggest; Somewhere in text about Alessia, it says "slave tribes", and others (I think something by Morihaus?) talk about how their own ethnic names were essentially stripped from them or just lost over time, and they became simple, nameless swathes of humans, with first names even given to them by their Elven masters. They called men captured from beyond the Jerall Mountains as literally "men-of-'kreath".

And on men, I'm thinking the best way to picture the Nibeneans at this point and during the early Alessian period would be like... well, jungle Mycenaeans. They're primitive slave tribes in a jungle, but they have to become Romans pretty quickly so..

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On that note, I couldn't contain myself, and started a bio/thingy for Alessia

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Illustration by Michael Kirkbride

AL'ESH

She is not was she once was. Those who are touched by the gods, are changed forever. She departed from that free tribe at a mountain stream in the high northern reaches of that land.. wandered off alone, and came back alien, estranged. They did not know the woman who returned, and wondered where the girl had went.

They thought her mad, at first. Such as it is for all those touched by the et'ada. She could've been left to wander, to become another pariah witch. No, that was not her destiny. Her soul is no longer hers. The stars have touched her eyes, kissed her lips, and have spoken to her ears in tongues in lilting grace.

She will be called many things. She has seen it, just as she has seen many things. Al'Esh, Her Highness, is the foremost of these, which in the great fullness of time will become Alessia. She is also now Paravania, the Perif, the Paravant; the First. The name given her by the mer of Cyrod is long forgotten, for that tortured girl is gone, and now stands in her place, the daughter of the Aka-Tos.

They will say that she arose upon a hill, without tree cover, arising golden as if in summer out of a wintry highland. The peaks of Jer-Al rose high above, seeking to scratch the stars like stone daggers. The girl knelt in the flowing grass of that hill and cried out to the names of the et'ada who once all mer prayed to. She prayed to those gods of men, whom the northern warriors kept faith in. The girl became the Paravant when she heard the tongue of the dragon. She later would liken it to the sound of a battlehorn, echoing in the deep sky.

Promises were made, as a father to an adopted daughter. The slave queen has seen as much as Aka-Tos has let her see. The cruelty of the Cyrodiils will end. Men will take their place, led by the sons and daughters of the divine ones. There will be many after her, and the dragon's children will reign over the Nibeneans for ages, a shining civilization to mimic the starlight above. Hers will be the stars, like jewels on a crown, says the dragon to his daughter.

The daughter of the dragon is afraid, at first, averting her eyes and ears into the tall grass. But then she is pulled to her feet by the unseen, and relief falls over her, as the mysteries of the aurora flow into her. She swears, at that moment, that by all her power and every breath, her people will never betray the divines, and devote their entire beings to the fulfillment of these promises, the terms of this covenant.

They call her Al'Esh, a corruption of a title that elven queens in their white cities use, meaning "high highness". They flock to her in straggling, starving numbers, bearing torn fetters and broken chains. Wolves are among them, eager to bite in the flesh of the foe. Others are wretched things, souls broken, hope lost.. They fall to their knees before their mother, their empress. There are those who cry, as if laying eyes upon an avatar of Mara.

The warriors swell. They keep to the jungles. She has seen what to do. The dragon's daughter knows where to strike. The slavers are decadent, the chain is weak. It will break under the strike of the righteous. The cults of the dark gods will be slaughtered, and the idols dashed against the marble, stone floors of their temple-cities. The Paravant prepares to lead her followers south, back to a place where she was raised as a child for breeding... beaten, raped, and sold. They will start there. They will free their brothers and sisters, her children, one by one. She has seen it happen. It will be done.

Paravania's fate is not her own, her soul is to the dragon. Her life will change the great course of time, as bade by the one who rules it. The King of the Underworld has made alliance with his killer, and the rule of the elf-kings will end.

Kinda cheesy?

[Barry Goldwater]

Looking good so far, guys. The map of Ayleid petty kingdoms & statelets will certainly save me quite a bit of work Good call of the 'jungle Mycenaean' idea as well BF, originally I was going to propose something akin to the Etruscans (who after all were Italians along with the first Romans/Latins, AKA the future Imperials' obvious influence) but then decided they may well look too advanced for the time period. I'd imagine the Nedic slaves of Cyrodiil to look like a composite of the various Copper to Bronze Age Mediterranean peoples with their own little regional variations & quirks (accounting for whatever Ayleid influence might be left on them) - as you mentioned they're still divided into tribes, are far from being a unified race, and even if their individual tribal roots & traditions have been completely torched by the Ayleids they'd likely at least partially reflect the customs of their regional Ayleid masters, who are similarly politically and geographically fragmented - though finding images of anyone from Etruscans to Mycenaeans to Minoans hanging out in anything resembling a jungle (Cyrodiil has yet to be terraformed from a tropical jungle into a temperate 'European' land by Septim, after all) is proving to be quite the challenge.

And @BF naw, Al-Esh is looking fine so far IMO. As the leader of the rebellion and one touched by the Divines she'd need a suitably epic write-up Speaking of which, that 'high king/nominal sovereign' system I talked about will apply to her if we do the Alessian setting: all other players will start out as vassals or allies of Alessia, though they can of course break away from her later.

[Adamat]

I need to polish my TES lore but this looks interesting.

[Dirty Chai]

@Barry,
Well, let's keep in mind that as a largely enslaved populace (there are however probably pockets of defying tribes that are either too far into the Nibenean jungle or the Colovian jungle [great forest in Oblivion] that are created from escaped slaves or originally tribes that were just never subdued), they won't have much in the way of finery, and the Ayleids most definitely don't let them keep weapons or armor. So to be honest, you'd be hard pressed to find pictures of them at all, because it's basically "Romans who originate as jungle slaves". That said, I think the idea is that as they get independent, they'll probably take a lot from the Ayleids, and much of any finery they might craft will be highly Ayleid influenced, at the very least. Same for weapons they create themselves, and so forth.

They clearly had their own language(s) still though, as the Ayleid language has been shown to be most similar to Tolkien's elvish languages (worth noting that the other Mer peoples do not speak anything like that), while the later Imperials have Romanesque names and European medieval names (from cross-pollination with Skyrim and High Rock and Colovia?).

@Adamat,
Welcome aboard, please do stay

[Barry Goldwater]

@Adamat Welcome! I echo BF's sentiments, please do stay around.

@BF Yep, that's what I meant - as the human slave masses begin to rebel one by one, they'd take on influences from their regional Ayleid overlords (who I'm guessing will also at least slightly differ from kingdom to kingdom, there was no single unified Ayleid state to my knowledge & it stands to reason that they wouldn't be exactly the same, just as Athens & Sparta & Pherae were all distinct despite all being Greek) and if any of them are serving the Ayleids as smiths, weavers etc. they've probably already internalized knowledge on how to do their craft in the Ayleid style, which as you've said is sure to influence anything they make for the rebellion.

Also: as it stands now nobody has claimed the role of Alessia for either the faction-based or the mixed games, and the latter is still ahead in the tally. If nobody else steps up to contest it, BF can have the role no matter the game.

[Pyrrhus the Molossian]

I do call Morihaus as well btw. A winged minotaur is just too good to pass up.

[Barry Goldwater]

I dunno how to implement Morihaus & Pelinal in the game, tbh, though I do think there are several options. IIRC these two were demigods & basically 'I Win' buttons for Alessia so ensuring that they don't end up becoming the focus of the game & doing everything is a concern. I had originally planned to make them ancillaries for the Alessia player, but especially in an Alessian Rebellion-only game I think they might work as playable characters in their own right: either solely as individual characters (in essence you would only be controlling Morihaus or Pelinal themselves, not a faction led by them that can build armies or collect income - that kind of stuff would be left to Alessia, your 'host', who could assign you to lead armies or go on quests - or IOW, these two are basically RPG characters) or leaders of small sub-factions of sorts, which are permanently bound to Alessia.

Either way though, I don't think that there can be any question about their power on the battlefield: as I said above, they're both pretty much walking, talking nukes. Being able to take on Ayleid regiments on their lonesome and winning or at least tying would probably be the minimum of their capabilities: Pelinal canonically ripped through Ayleid petty-kings like an agitated, starved pitbull through wet steaks (not to mention he killed Umaril even after the latter cheated) & essentially committed genocide without breaking a sweat when he became so pissed off that he was overtaken by 'Madness', and while Morihaus' feats aren't as well-recorded he was said to be just as much of a BAMF as Pelinal, only less insane.

[Pyrrhus the Molossian]

Probably separate characters, but I don't see a need for armies when you're a demi god. Maybe Alessia can send troops if she sees fit, but that's about it lol.

[Xion]

I will probably play as the ruler of a Ayleid city-state or a leader of Nord forces if allowed.

[Dirty Chai]

That's probably the way to go, Barry, with Morihaus and Pelinal as characters reliant on their host.

As for actually depicting them physically and characteristically, well, I suppose that's up to the players.
If I was Morihaus, I'd probably depict him as an very hirsute, tall Nordic warrior who wears large bull horns on a helmet. Otherwise, Alessia was really into minotaurs..

[Pyrrhus the Molossian]

That's probably the way to go, Barry, with Morihaus and Pelinal as characters reliant on their host.

As for actually depicting them physically and characteristically, well, I suppose that's up to the players.
If I was Morihaus, I'd probably depict him as an very hirsute, tall Nordic warrior who wears large bull horns on a helmet. Otherwise, Alessia was laying with a beastman

Well he's literally a demi god. It's said that he was the father of minotaurs through Alessia. So I would be playing him as what he is. A winged minotaur demi god lol,

[Dirty Chai]

Yes, Belharza the "man bull" was Alessia's successor

Cringey, but alright, Alessia, if that's what you're into..

[Pyrrhus the Molossian]

Aha, yes peculiar tastes for your character BF.

[Barry Goldwater]

Righto, the players who pick up Pelinal/Morihaus are free to depict them however they wish, so long as their interpretation is reasonably grounded in canon so we don't get silliness like Morihaus being a levitating gerbil in a horned helmet. Besides Morihaus, Pelinal was also said to be a time-traveling cyborg by Kirkbride (his creator & writer for a ton of ES lore, in addition to Morrowind & Oblivion/Knights of the Nine). Whether you decide to cast Pelinal as 'merely' a magical knightly Shezzarine or the Terminator though, please do try to couch it in terms the average Nede would understand: he probably shouldn't start babbling about how he's got living tissue over his metal endoskeleton around Alessia or w/e unless he intends to clear up any confusion he may have caused using terms & analogies that a Bronze Age human would understand very soon afterwards

@Xion Yeah, playing as an Ayleid or Nord ally of Alessia's will be allowed.