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  1. #1
    Big War Bird's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Clinton Spied on Di?

    Did the Clinton Administration Engage in “Domestic Spying” Against Princess Diana?
    What the new revelations could mean.

    By Byron York

    The first thing to remember in trying to evaluate reports that U.S. intelligence services wiretapped Princess Diana is that British press accounts can be notoriously unreliable. We’ll know more about the story on Thursday morning, when results of the Lord Stevens inquiry into Diana’s death are released to the public. But if the reports out now are accurate, the Diana case could raise questions for veterans of the Clinton administration similar to those facing the Bush administration today.

    Some versions of the story say simply that the U.S., without consulting British intelligence, was monitoring Diana’s phone conversations in Paris on the night she died, in August 1997. If American intelligence did that, and if the conversations tapped were between Diana, who was a foreign national, and some other person who was also a foreign national, then the action, although perhaps needlessly antagonistic to the British, would not raise questions of whether the administration sought a warrant under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, or FISA.

    But the Evening Standard reports that American intelligence agencies “were bugging Princess Diana’s telephone over her relationship with a U.S. billionaire” — identified as American businessman Theodore Forstmann. That report suggests the surveillance took place over a period of some time. If that is accurate, then the story could be quite different.

    Forstmann is what is known in the intelligence/legal world as a “U.S. person.” If there were a conversation between him, in the United States, and Diana, outside the United States, it would resemble, at least in structure, the conversations between people in the United States and those in foreign countries that have been at the center of the controversy over what President Bush calls the terrorist-surveillance program and what Democrats call “domestic spying.” (The difference, of course, would be that the Bush administration says it has listened to conversations involving people with known connections to a foreign enemy, al Qaeda; neither Diana nor Forstmann, a public-minded financier who was quite active in Republican politics, appears to fit a comparable description.)

    If the Clinton administration did engage in surveillance of Diana/Forstmann, it is not clear if it was done with or without a warrant. “To get a FISA warrant, they would have had to believe that either Forstmann or Diana was an agent of a foreign power,” says one former Justice Department official. That, the official adds, would be an unlikely scenario. “To get a criminal warrant, they would have had to had a proceeding going on in which they got a judge to give them a warrant” — another unlikely scenario. “Or perhaps,” the official concludes, “the NSA did it.”

    The National Security Agency released a statement last night saying, “NSA did not target Princess Diana’s communications.” A spokesman for the Central Intelligence Agency told the Washington Post that any suggestion the CIA wiretapped Diana was “rubbish.” Neither statement seems to be a definitive denial.

    If the Clinton administration did engage in surveillance of Princess Diana and Theodore Forstmann, without a warrant, it would appear to run contrary to statements made by former administration officials during the Bush warrantless-wiretap controversy. After the existence of the Bush program was made public last December, some high-ranking veterans of the Clinton administration said they had not engaged in similar efforts to by-pass FISA. “Both before and after the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act was amended in 1995, the Clinton-Gore administration complied fully and completely with the terms of the law,” former Vice President Al Gore said.

    The amendment to which Gore referred was an action by Congress that included physical break-ins under the FISA law, requiring the executive branch to seek a warrant before carrying out a break-in. Wiretaps were already covered by the law.

    When Congress was considering the break-in measure, top Clinton administration officials argued that the president had the “inherent authority” to order such break-ins — including break-ins at the homes of U.S. citizens — on his own, without a warrant. Even after the administration agreed with Congress’s decision to place the authority to pre-approve such searches in the FISA court, President Clinton still maintained that he had sufficient authority to order such searches on his own.

    “The Department of Justice believes, and the case law supports, that the president has inherent authority to conduct warrantless physical searches for foreign intelligence purposes,” Deputy Attorney General Jamie Gorelick testified before the House Intelligence Committee on July 14, 1994. Later, after Congress took action, Gorelick told Legal Times that, “Our seeking legislation in no way should suggest that we do not believe we have inherent authority.”

    Nevertheless, the law required that the administration seek a warrant if it intended to wiretap a U.S. person’s — in this case Forstmann’s — communications. The Clinton administration could have argued, as the Bush administration would later, that the president had the authority to do it on his own under certain circumstances, like the presence of a foreign enemy. But it’s hard to see how Diana and Forstmann would have fit that description, and in any event that is something Al Gore and other Clinton veterans say they never did.
    http://article.nationalreview.com/?q...NjYjI4NWQ3ZWE=

    Now this is an invasion of privacy. Why in the heck would Slick Willy want to keep tabs on Di? I can only imagine
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  2. #2
    Erik's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Clinton Spied on Di?

    Newsflash: Governments are spying on each other all the time.
    Wasn't Britain recently caught spying on France?
    And everybody knows Israel spies on everybody else, including their so-called "allies".
    I would be surprised if America hasn't put taps on every other Royal family in Europe.



  3. #3

    Default Re: Clinton Spied on Di?

    Well I think the point here is alot of Clinton era officals have come out and attacked the Bush admin for their wire tap scandal so its a bit hypocritical of them if this is true. Regardless you are right it shouldnt be much of a suprise, everyone spies on each other even allies. I cant however imagine Di was the actual target of any wiretaping though and probably someone she knew or was associated with was and she was just in the middle of it.

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    Erik's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Clinton Spied on Di?

    Quote Originally Posted by danzig View Post
    Well I think the point here is alot of Clinton era officals have come out and attacked the Bush admin for their wire tap scandal so its a bit hypocritical of them if this is true.
    There is a huge difference between mass wiretapping civilians and wiretapping high ranking officials.

    I know a guy who used to be high up in the Dutch communist party.
    Needless to say he got wiretapped by our government.
    But he wasn't even bothered by it, he actually thought it was convenient because if there was a power failure his home was the only one in his block that still got electricity. (this is also how he found out).
    Getting spied on is just part of being a politicians.
    If you don't like it you should choose a different job.

    The recent scandal in America was that normal people, who don't have high profile jobs, also get spied on.
    Even you can be spied on, and your job/life choices have nothing to do with it.

    I cant however imagine Di was the actual target of any wiretaping though and probably someone she knew or was associated with was and she was just in the middle of it.
    She was in the middle of all politics.
    If somebody farted in parliament she would probably hear about it.
    And being the *ahum* outgoing type she was she would probably open her mouth about sensitive issues all the time.
    I'll bet you can learn a lot about all aspects of British politics from her conversations.



  5. #5

    Default Re: Clinton Spied on Di?

    Quote Originally Posted by Erik View Post
    The recent scandal in America was that normal people, who don't have high profile jobs, also get spied on.
    Even you can be spied on, and your job/life choices have nothing to do with it.
    Not really since I dont make out of country calls to the middle east or other 'suspected' areas in the world which was the focus of the wiretaping 'scandal' here in the US. It was overblown that my call to Pizza Hut for a large pie and chicken wings would be picked up by the NSA That said I do think the attacks on the program were warranted to a degree, no oversight = open to abuse.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Clinton Spied on Di?

    Interesting to note that America's closest ally, Israel, had one of there spys caught in the pentagon a few months back!

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    Carach's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Clinton Spied on Di?

    "closest ally" coverstory gets more and more deformed every day.

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    Idwayreth's Avatar Centenarius
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    Default Re: Clinton Spied on Di?

    Word on the street was Diana thought Clinton was kinda cute and he wanted to see if it was true so he sent his homie out there to see if he can get some scoop on the story see if it's true so he can mac on her
    Last edited by Idwayreth; December 12, 2006 at 11:40 AM. Reason: grammar
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  9. #9

    Default Re: Clinton Spied on Di?

    Quote Originally Posted by Idwayreth View Post
    Word on the street was Diana thought Clinton was kinda cute and he wanted to see if it was true so he sent his homie out there to see if he can get some scoop on the story see if it's true so he can mac on her
    Diana would sleep with any one with a whiff of power/fame.She had no qualms about sleeping her way to power and fame.When her little games where uncovered, she arranged an interview and put on the little soppy eyes look and had a little cry to get some sympathy.

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    Carach's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Clinton Spied on Di?

    Quote Originally Posted by The DUKE View Post
    Diana would sleep with any one with a whiff of power/fame.She had no qualms about sleeping her way to power and fame.When her little games where uncovered, she arranged an interview and put on the little soppy eyes look and had a little cry to get some sympathy.
    enlighten us Duke, were you her butler? is that how you apparently know so much about the Princess?

    or are you just another one of the millions of clueless spectators reading papers and then thinking "hey i know it all!" ?

    i think ill go for the latter

  11. #11

    Default Re: Clinton Spied on Di?

    Quote Originally Posted by Carach View Post
    enlighten us Duke, were you her butler? is that how you apparently know so much about the Princess?

    or are you just another one of the millions of clueless spectators reading papers and then thinking "hey i know it all!" ?

    i think ill go for the latter
    No.I dont know everything,and i do get information from papers,and they are semi right most of the time.

    stop defending her!
    you hippie liberal!





  12. #12
    Tom Paine's Avatar Mr Common Sense
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    Default Re: Clinton Spied on Di?

    First thought: Did this come from the Mirror, obsessed with Diana and conspiracy as it is?

    Do we trust the denials (which seem pretty definitive to me....) and if it happened, are there records, which can be released to the public as definite proofs of it happening? There should be records, logiclly speaking...

  13. #13
    Tom Paine's Avatar Mr Common Sense
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    Default Re: Clinton Spied on Di?

    At least he's not one of the mindless who hero-worshipped her and cried at the loss not of a woman but at the loss of a semi-saint, the so-called People's Princess (yes, I'm amused by the title, so?)

  14. #14
    Carach's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Clinton Spied on Di?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
    At least he's not one of the mindless who hero-worshipped her and cried at the loss not of a woman but at the loss of a semi-saint, the so-called People's Princess (yes, I'm amused by the title, so?)

    i, like hundreds of thousands of others, went to see her funeral (obviously not close.. but meh..) i was no "heoworshipper" (you like using this word recently on me dont you, no matter how innacurate you are).

    whether she is a saint, semi saint, princess, whatever, she was an important person that did a lot for charity and tragically died. Its disgusting that you almost think its good that she died just because she had a few boyfriends?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidin View Post
    In other news, the sky is blue and water is wet. Can we get York to check on those later?

    I mean, come on. Prominent political figure. What kind of major world power *wouldn't* keep tabs on her.

    she was worthless to the american intelligence, there is NO excuse for it.
    Last edited by Carach; December 13, 2006 at 02:47 PM.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Clinton Spied on Di?

    Quote Originally Posted by Carach View Post
    she was worthless to the american intelligence, there is NO excuse for it.
    Sorry, but prominent political figures get watched whether you agree with it or not. It's general policy for any intelligence agency in this world. If you don't like it and you're born into a naturally political role, go live on a remote farm somewhere or slit your wrists. I care not which. You'll still be watched, but now you're making it a total waste for them, instead of just the mostly waste that this was.
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    Tom Paine's Avatar Mr Common Sense
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    Default Re: Clinton Spied on Di?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidin View Post
    Sorry, but prominent political figures get watched whether you agree with it or not. It's general policy for any intelligence agency in this world. If you don't like it and you're born into a naturally political role, go live on a remote farm somewhere or slit your wrists. I care not which. You'll still be watched, but now you're making it a total waste for them, instead of just the mostly waste that this was.
    Actually there was massive controversy in Britain over offices being bugged by the intelligence services. The offices of the Prime Minister. Oh, this was what 30 years ago now, but the point remains: when the Cold War was raging, even then the PM's office remained unbugged...

  17. #17
    Last Roman's Avatar ron :wub:in swanson
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    Default Re: Clinton Spied on Di?

    For what reason would the Clinton administration have to spy on princess Diana? I'm not saying it didn't happen, but I find it unlikely.
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    aduellist's Avatar Push the button Max!
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    Default Re: Clinton Spied on Di?

    I find it highly unlikely that the US was targeting Diana. I don't find it unlikely that some of her communications were picked up in the course of spying on someone else, most probably the Fayeds.

    On another level I don't have a problem believing that Bill "The Zipper" Clinton had an interest, because Diana was after all a babe.
    Last edited by aduellist; December 12, 2006 at 08:36 PM.
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  19. #19

    Default Re: Clinton Spied on Di?

    In other news, the sky is blue and water is wet. Can we get York to check on those later?

    I mean, come on. Prominent political figure. What kind of major world power *wouldn't* keep tabs on her.
    One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
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  20. #20

    Default Re: Clinton Spied on Di?

    Why not?
    Britain is not going to be a US ally forever, so there is no point in not spying on them to gather information now.





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