Why Don't Cannons Have Grapeshot?

[Viva Espana!]

See Title. Why.

[Carl Jung was right]

First of all, this isn't 4chan's /v/, so please take the trouble to write a proper thread opening post.

Second I'm not quite aware of this, but is there grapeshot for cannons in the tabletop game? Or just because it was present since Empire and up, means it should be here as well?

I agree that the basic cannons are kind of underwhelming with their solid shot lobbing, and are essentially exactly the same as catapults except for the damage values they inflict. The cannons in M2TW were much more fun to use, due to their destructiveness, but they were perhaps somewhat unbalanced.

[drillmaster]

All cannons have grapeshot in the tabletop game. However TWW has literally 0 unit abilities. So no big surprise there. And yes cannons are a big let down. 2 batteries cant even stop an Arachnarok Spider. Really?

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[emcdunna]

The design choices in this game are to remove any ability that isn't used by a character, like spells and rally abilities.
You have enough of those as it is.

Now in some cases units have automatic abilities. What they could have done is made cannons capable of automatically firing grapeshot at close ranges

The reason they didn't do this is because they want each unit to have a purpose. Cannons are not anti infantry. Hellblasters, hellstorms, etc. Serve this role instead.

They don't want all artillery to have the same use. Cannons are supposed to be anti-large, but CA didn't give them enough damage to actually kill monsters.

This again is because they are worried about spam. If they balance the effectiveness of 2 batteries against a monster, then taking 6 batteries is overpowered, you'll insta-kill any monster.

Imagine if on top of all that, your cannons began shooting grapeshot so they were perfect anti-everything killing machines...

[AlliedZero]

The design choices in this game are to remove any ability that isn't used by a character, like spells and rally abilities.
You have enough of those as it is.

Now in some cases units have automatic abilities. What they could have done is made cannons capable of automatically firing grapeshot at close ranges

The reason they didn't do this is because they want each unit to have a purpose. Cannons are not anti infantry. Hellblasters, hellstorms, etc. Serve this role instead.

They don't want all artillery to have the same use. Cannons are supposed to be anti-large, but CA didn't give them enough damage to actually kill monsters.

This again is because they are worried about spam. If they balance the effectiveness of 2 batteries against a monster, then taking 6 batteries is overpowered, you'll insta-kill any monster.

Imagine if on top of all that, your cannons began shooting grapeshot so they were perfect anti-everything killing machines...

The chaos hellcannons have two cool down abilities. I don't know if a lot of people have noticed this. I wonder...do other non-leader units have cool down abilities?

[♘Top Hat Zebra]

Hard counters are silly, though.

Cannons are great against infantry. And cavalry. And monsters.

They're big guns shooting big, metal balls at things at high speeds. Everything in your army should have to worry about them.

[emcdunna]

Okay well it's pretty rare. Like the gyrobombers have the drop bomb abilities too.

But maybe 5% of units have them now instead of attila where maybe 65% of units had 1 or in many cases several abilities like shieldwall, headhunt, quick reload, etc.

I like total war warhammer's approach better. Far too many abilities that were unnecessary

[Vanders]

Okay well it's pretty rare. Like the gyrobombers have the drop bomb abilities too.

But maybe 5% of units have them now instead of attila where maybe 65% of units had 1 or in many cases several abilities like shieldwall, headhunt, quick reload, etc.

I like total war warhammer's approach better. Far too many abilities that were unnecessary

Quite frankly, it sounds like you just couldn't handle it so you want it dumbed down. As for me, I like as much tactical flexibility as possible. Things like formations and different shot types for my cannon are all conducive to a fun and dynamic battlefield. It's not like they were of such importance that you had to use them in order to win.

[♘Top Hat Zebra]

Shot types don't have to be abilities, though. I hate the way shrapnel shot was handled in Fall of the Samurai.


Empire did it great. You toggled what kind of shot you wanted to use.

[Viva Espana!]

Shot types don't have to be abilities, though. I hate the way shrapnel shot was handled in Fall of the Samurai.


Empire did it great. You toggled what kind of shot you wanted to use.

Empire being the artillery, pike, and shotte game, I expected it to. As the Empire is, technologically, "just before" Empire Total War, I expected to see grapeshot and was sorely disappointed. Cannons are practically useless without it.

And for the guy talking about how certain artillery is anti-large, anti-infantry, etc... Who gives a crap? I don't get access to Hellstorm Rocket Batteries and Volley Guns before I unlock cannons. Cannons should be the shorter range (grape shot) and less damaging alternative. Mortars provide long-range anti-infantry firepower, while cannons can fire off a volley of grapeshot into the enemy's face before the charge. Hellfires and Hellstorms should be an upgrade on the cannon, not an alternative.

[Karnil Vark Khaitan]

Neckbeard coming though!!!

Ahhmm they did have it in the table top, but by Lunaris it was useless!
A normal cannon shot would still do more dmg then that, so it doesn't suprise me they removed it.

BUT! it should still have been there.

[drillmaster]

Ummm cannons fire cannoballs primarily. Hellblasters fire grapeshot primarily. They are toally different in range power and capability. You cant use a field cannon to fire only grapeshot.

[Viva Espana!]

Ummm cannons fire cannoballs primarily. Hellblasters fire grapeshot primarily. They are toally different in range power and capability. You cant use a field cannon to fire only grapeshot.

Hellblasters don't fire grapeshot.

And in previous Total War titles, you could toggle the cannon to fire solid shot or grapeshot (obviously depending on what your engineers loaded into the gun). Don't be silly.

[AlliedZero]

Hellblasters don't fire grapeshot.

And in previous Total War titles, you could toggle the cannon to fire solid shot or grapeshot (obviously depending on what your engineers loaded into the gun). Don't be silly.

You have to remember that with the introduction of the Warhammer universe...most of the people here haven't actually played a Total War game before or maybe just one.

[Campaigner]

They should add grapeshot to cannons and any other type of shot that is appropriate. I do not care if the TT had it or not. It should not be an ability it should be an ammo toggle like a formation toggle. They should add formations in as well. The only reason I cannot say this is the "BEST" Total war "EVAR" is because of all the missing features and mechanics from the previous titles. It does not need be complex what I want is depth. As for "Pokemon" abilities for all units now that would be unnecessary, If an ability makes sense to be "passive" it should be. They can do it. Ask for it loudly. Ask for it often. Educate all non believers. The preferred method of course being logic and reason but if that does not produce desired results a few well placed whacks to the head cannot damage what is not there while also eliciting some form of compliance. They can also Make units unbalanced. I am fine with that. Solution? Unit Caps. Now all the units that should be amazing are. While not being game winners due to scarcity of supply.

I think I am roughly on Target here. Let me know if I am off base.

[MarcoRossolini]

Not a fan of the lack of unit abilities in general.

Pike wall/ schiltrom is another glaring weakness. I struggle to see any point for spearmen except as early game cannonfodder.

[Viva Espana!]

Not a fan of the lack of unit abilities in general.

Pike wall/ schiltrom is another glaring weakness. I struggle to see any point for spearmen except as early game cannonfodder.

Even then, little point, as swordsmen do the job better. Hell, the "anti-large" bonus of common spearmen is hardly noticeable.