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Thread: [UNITS] The Iberians

  1. #41
    Visarion's Avatar Alexandros
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    Default Re: [PREVEW] Iberians and Celtiberians

    Amazing amount of wor and tesearch!

  2. #42
    Visarion's Avatar Alexandros
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    Default Re: [PREVEW] Iberians and Celtiberians

    Quote Originally Posted by ABH2 View Post
    I think people will be pleased with the full roster. A lot of diversity, and we plan to implement this as an AOR system so you get access to them all if you unite the Iberian tribes. The Roman player will also be thrown into Iberia right away so hopefully they make interesting enemies. We have some plans on overall combat to make them play a bit differently.

    The only thing I'd like to improve, after a first release, are the shields. Mainly, the scutum models. There are three distinct boss types found in the peninsula. The CA Iberian scutum model isn't quite right and we'd like to do it right when we get a chance.

    I'd like to eventually go into this sort of depth for some other barbarians that don't get a lot of love. We have a lot of depth with our Hellenistic factions, Romans (obviously). The Celts are a blackhole where there's not much to distinguish tribes or areas from one another, but the Germans are one group I'd like to give a similar treatment down the road. Have a few other ideas, as well.
    I just found the answer to my question... great stuff if as Arevaci or Lusitani you can have access to all the other units

  3. #43

    Default Re: [UNITS] The Iberians

    Lusitanian women have been reported to have fought ferociously alongside the men. Will you add some females to their ranks?

  4. #44
    Willhelm123's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Re: [UNITS] The Iberians

    Quote Originally Posted by JPrice94 View Post
    Lusitanian women have been reported to have fought ferociously alongside the men. Will you add some females to their ranks?
    Well can you show us these reports.
    AE Dev, mainly units

  5. #45

    Default Re: [UNITS] The Iberians

    One question: is it known that iberians shaved their beards like romans how do you made it in the mod or did they let them grow atleast in parts like celts or orher barbarians?

    Gesendet von meinem SM-G925F mit Tapatalk

  6. #46

    Default Re: [UNITS] The Iberians

    Lusitanian women reference is likely from wikipedia:
    Apiano claims that when Praetor Brutus sacked Lusitania after chasing Viriathus, the women fought valiantly next to their men.[3]
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lusitanians


    Reference is in spanish though and I am not sure which time period it refers to:
    Luciano Pérez Vilatela. Lusitania: historia y etnología, p. 14, at Google Books (Spanish). [S.l.]: Real Academia de la Historia, 2000. 33 p. vol. 6 of Bibliotheca archaeologica hispana, v. 6 of Publicaciones del Gabinete de Antigüedades.



    There's a Greek to English translations of the Roman histories starting with the early days of Rome:
    https://archive.org/stream/romanhist...iuoft_djvu.txt

    This has a reference to war with Lusitani and Bracari and probably is where this originates from. Bearing in mind the first reference refer to siege and the second part about the Bracari I am not sure. It indicates that the women where war like fighting alongside the men but I doubt it was much more than a last resort due to being under attack/under siege rather than formed military units.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    88 APPIAN'S HISTORY [Bk. VI, Ch. XII B.C.

    614 renewal of open hostilities against Viriathus. When war 140
    was publicly declared Caepio took the town of Arsa, which
    Viriathus abandoned, and followed Viriathus himself (who
    fled and destroyed everything in his path) as far as Car-
    petania, the Roman forces being much stronger than his.
    Viriathus deeming it unwise to engage in battle, on account
    of the smallness of his army, ordered the greater part of
    it to retreat through a hidden defile, while he drew up the
    remainder on a hill as though he intended to fight. When
    he judged that those who had been sent before had reached
    a place of safety, he darted after them with such disregard
    of the enemy and such swiftness that his pursuers did not
    know whither he had gone. Caepio turned against the
    Vettones and the Callaici and wasted their fields.

    616 71. Emulating the example of Viriathus many other gue- 138
    rilla bands made incursions into Lusitania and ravaged it.
    Sextus Junius Brutus, who was sent against them, despaired
    of following them through the extensive country bounded
    by the navigable rivers Tagus, Lethe, Durius, and Bsetis,
    because he considered it extremely difficult to overtake
    them while flying from place to place after the manner of
    robbers, and yet disgraceful not to do so, and a task not
    very glorious even if he should conquer them. He there-
    fore turned against their towns, thinking that thus he should
    take vengeance on them, and at the same time secure a
    quantity of plunder for his army, and that the robbers would
    scatter, each to his own place, when their homes were
    threatened. With this design he began destroying every-
    thing that came in his way. Here he found the women
    fighting and perishing in company with the men with such
    bravery that they uttered no cry even in the midst of
    slaughter.
    Some of the inhabitants fled to the mountains
    with what they could carry, and to these, when they asked
    pardon, Brutus granted it, taking their goods as a fine.

    617 72. He then crossed the river Durius, carrying war far ,37
    and wide and taking hostages from those who surrendered,
    until he came to the river Lethe, being the first of the
    Romans to think of crossing that stream. Passing over this
    he advanced to another river called the Nimis, where he
    attacked the Bracari because they had plundered his pro-
    vision train. They were a very warlike people, the women

    THE WARS IN SPAIN 89

    V.R. B.C.

    617 bearing arms with the men, who fought never turning, never 137
    showing their backs, or uttering a cry. Of the women who
    were captured some killed themselves, others slew their
    children with their own hands, considering death preferable
    to captivity. There were some towns that surrendered to
    Brutus and soon afterwards revolted. These he reduced to
    subjection again.

    Another reference in regards to the siege of
    Petilia by Hannibal:

    THE HANNIBALIC WAR 1 25



    R. '*-'^-

    18 of the Roman allies and, having devastated it, laid siege 216
    to Petilia. The inhabitants, although few in number, made
    courageous sallies against him (their women joining in the
    fight) and performing many noble deeds of daring. They
    burned his siege engines unceasingly, and in these enter-
    prises the women were in no wise inferior to the men.
    But their numbers were reduced by each assault, and they
    began to suffer the pangs of hunger. When Hannibal per-
    ceived this he drew a line of circumvallation around them
    and left Hanno to finish the siege. As their sufferings in-
    creased they first thrust outside the walls all those who were
    incapable of fighting and looked on without grieving while
    Hanno slew them, considering the dead better off than the
    living, for which reason the remainder, when reduced to
    the last extremity, made a sally against the enemy, and
    after performing many splendid acts of bravery, being
    nearly starved and completely exhausted, they were unable
    to return and were all slain by the Africans. Thus Hanno
    possessed himself of the town. But yet a few escaped, who
    had sufficient strength to run. These wanderers the Romans
    carefully collected, to the number of about 800, and re-
    placed them in their own country after the war, being
    moved by kind feeling toward them and admiration for
    their exceptional fidelity.
    Reference to amazons in Pompey's conquest across anatolia towards Caspain sea (Ibera here is a reference to Georgia I believe as Artoces of Iberia was king of the area around Georgia) the sheepskin into the streams shouldbe a clue given that the golden fleece tale is likely to have originated from the area:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artoces_of_Iberia

    398 APPIAN'S HISTORY [Bk. XII, Ch. XV

    Y.R.

    688 was fastened to Mount Caucasus. Many streams issue from 66 '
    Caucasus bearing gold-dust so fine as to be invisible. The
    inhabitants put sheepskins with shaggy fleece into the
    stream and thus collect the floating particles. Perhaps
    the golden fleece of ^tes was of this kind. All the neigh-
    boring tribes accompanied Pompey on his exploring expe-
    dition. Only Orceses, king of the Albanians, and Artoces,
    king of the Iberians, placed 70,000 men in ambush for him
    at the river Cyrtus, which empties into the Caspian sea by
    twelve navigable mouths, receiving the waters of several
    large streams, the greatest of which is the Araxes. Pom-
    pey, gaining knowledge of the ambush, bridged the river
    and drove the barbarians into a dense forest. These people
    are terrible forest fighters, hiding in the woods and darting
    out unexpectedly. Pompey surrounded this forest with his
    army, set it on fire, and pursued the fugitives when they
    ran out, until they all surrendered and brought him hos-
    tages and presents. Pompey was afterward awarded one of
    his triumphs at Rome for these exploits. Among the hos-
    tages and prisoners many women were found, who had suf-
    fered wounds no less than the men. These were supposed
    to be Amazons, but whether the Amazons are a neighbor-
    ing nation, who were called to their aid at that time, or
    whether certain warlike women are called Amazons by the
    barbarians there, is not known.


    The majority of references refer either to the minor exceptions or sieges but rarely to formed war units of women with the exception of the amazons and possibly the Bracari but likely also in a siege/last resort scenario.
    Last edited by Rejenorst; February 27, 2017 at 12:32 AM.

  7. #47

    Default Re: [UNITS] The Iberians

    Really cool looking units! I do however have to agree with what was mentioned in an earlier post. For the sake of variety, I get why you choose to isolate this group with quite a lot of uniqueness. However, these Celtiberians appear quite darker than one would imagine, and in addition to this, they're placed in a desert like environment... I don't remember the Iberian maps in vanilla appearing so "Sahara desert" like and hope this wont be reflected in the mod. Why this setting was chosen to display the units is questionable, but be that as it may, I respect your wishes and also do not want to turn this into a racial debate.

    That being said, I think these units could use some variety in hair styles (like the Celts have).

    While I don't agree with some of your decisions (please don't take offense to this), I think your work is great and I really enjoy the attention to detail.

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