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Thread: Ethereal Units.... do they suck?

  1. #1

    Default Ethereal Units.... do they suck?

    It took me forever to build up my vampires to get Cairn and Hex Wraiths... and they seem to sort of suck? How are they supposed to be "used"? The description of the unit makes them sound like they would wreck low and mid tier units and trade blows with high tier units only if the opposing unit had a magic weapon. Anybody else have any experience with them? What is the "stat modifier for ETHEREAL" ?

  2. #2

    Default Re: Ethereal Units.... do they suck?

    the cairns are pretty good sick em on elite infantry and watch them work they are also the fastest infantry in the game so they are amazing for flank attacks

    the hex wraiths arent better then the black knights but they have vanguard deployment so i guess you can make em work? but the cairn are amazing

  3. #3

    Default Re: Ethereal Units.... do they suck?

    Playing VC faction they are my main damage unit. Totally much agreed there to fragile but there damage is really and could instill terror. Those unit are good at attacking at the rear to instill terror. The only good ethereal unit will be banshee but it take time to lvl it up.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Ethereal Units.... do they suck?

    That's so silly. They're supposed to literally be ghosts who can go straight through things.

    Like the hex wraiths are supposed to have a hit and run attack where they ride straight through a unit.

    And ethereals are supposed to take literally 0 damage from non magically attacks

  5. #5

    Default Re: Ethereal Units.... do they suck?

    They take 3/4 less damage from non-magical attacks which is "balanced out" by having very low health pool (almost 1/3 of what Grave Guards have). They seem to perform slightly better than Grave Guards with great weapons against elite units with armor piercing attacks but the difference doesn't seem to be that significant.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Ethereal Units.... do they suck?

    They're really vulnerable to mortar fire.
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  7. #7

    Default Re: Ethereal Units.... do they suck?

    Quote Originally Posted by Holy.Death View Post
    They take 3/4 less damage from non-magical attacks which is "balanced out" by having very low health pool (almost 1/3 of what Grave Guards have). They seem to perform slightly better than Grave Guards with great weapons against elite units with armor piercing attacks but the difference doesn't seem to be that significant.
    Slightly better LOL!!! Those unit have terror ability that easily route those low tier infantry even some agents and sometimes lord will run. Grave guards are just meat shield. If you want more damage will be crypt horror. Personally i found crypt horror better.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Ethereal Units.... do they suck?

    I use them pretty well. They mop up people pretty good with the damage that they deal. To me they don't seem squishy.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Ethereal Units.... do they suck?

    For the love of Nehek, don't use them against the Dwarf Lords or even the Dwarfs in general.

    Damned magic resistant stunties.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Ethereal Units.... do they suck?

    They are costly, high tier units yet their performance doesnt reflect that. Whats the point of Ethereal trait if their health pool is so low? It just means they die to physical damage about as quick as regular units and are super vulnerable to magic damage on top of that.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Ethereal Units.... do they suck?

    I was just really disappointed when I got them. So they reduce all non magic attacks by 3/4 but have around 1/3 the health of other elite units?.... I think that defeats the purpose. I played a game against chaos marauders equal price and the cairn wraiths won and lost about the same it was a toss up.... That is starting tier vs final tier. I have had better luck with Hex wraiths... they are great against regen units and the vanguard deployment can result in some really fun Multiplayer games.... They cost more then twice the black knights though.... so you could just buy 2 black knights and do a frontal charge and then have the other do a rear charge. From their description I wanted them to straight up shred low and mid tier units and only have trouble with elites with magic weapons. What I was hoping for was a unit that had to be singled out by the enemies mages or magic weapon wielding enemies. There are magic augments that give units magic attacks right? I think it works like that in the Table top. If they buffed them and made them cost more I would be happy they just do not seem to pay off in campaign when it takes so long to get them.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Ethereal Units.... do they suck?

    They just do not seem to be cost effective as they are. The real problem is I think they should cost more and do more. They are a unit that does not live up to its awesome description at all. I am going to play some more mp games and use them. I have been on a pretty good winning streak not using them.

  13. #13
    valky's Avatar Ducenarius
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    Default Re: Ethereal Units.... do they suck?

    Their vanguard deployment is still pretty darn useful, but otherwise I'd have been better off using black knights instead.
    After using "better combat" by KAM I experiment slightly with their stats and gave the Cairns a tiny boost to their attack & defence & HP model and they do perform better now.
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  14. #14
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    Default Re: Ethereal Units.... do they suck?

    @Campaigner: reading the headline of your topic one thing came into my mind.

    How can anything that is Ethereal suck anyway - explicit beyond imagination
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  15. #15

    Default Re: Ethereal Units.... do they suck?

    They carried my way to victory on my VC campaign, both cairns and cavalry.

    I don't really know how they compare with other units of their tier on multiplayer, but for the campaign they seem pretty good as the AI will rarely target them with spells
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  16. #16

    Default Re: Ethereal Units.... do they suck?

    Quote Originally Posted by gyabo View Post
    Slightly better LOL!!! Those unit have terror ability that easily route those low tier infantry even some agents and sometimes lord will run. Grave guards are just meat shield. If you want more damage will be crypt horror. Personally i found crypt horror better.
    This unit is supposed to better withstand the physical attacks but as of right now its low health pool nullifies the ethereal effect they have, while still making them susceptible to magical damage.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Ethereal Units.... do they suck?

    Quote Originally Posted by Holy.Death View Post
    This unit is supposed to better withstand the physical attacks but as of right now its low health pool nullifies the ethereal effect they have, while still making them susceptible to magical damage.
    But they aren't supposed to be used as frontliners, they have high speed for a reason, to hit flanks and undefended units, usually the moment they connect to the back or side of an enganged enemy that enemy will either die quickly or rout really fast the ethereal thing is mostly flavour but it helps in some situations, in others it doesn't matter, what matters is speed and magical attack which bypasses armor = better flanking charges because of 0 charge deflect and shield blocking.
    Last edited by Emperor Arcturus Mengsk; June 04, 2016 at 02:33 AM.
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  18. #18

    Default Re: Ethereal Units.... do they suck?

    I ran some more tests:

    - Cairn Wraiths are capable of decimating Demigryph Knights (including halberds) despite not being anti-large (2x Skeletal Spearmen are completely wiped out, dealing minimal losses or none at all, depending on Demigryph variant). Very cost-effective.

    - They withstand missile fire (including armor-piercing missile fire, like handgunners) far much better than non-shielded units (about the same as shielded units).

    - Magical defense (buffing units with magic) seems to have no effect on their damage.

    - It's more cost-effective to send 2x Skeletal Spearmen versus Arachnarok Spider than send 1x Cairn Wraiths. Not sure why. Probably because of number of models in a unit.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Ethereal Units.... do they suck?

    There's a mod on the workshop which is tinkering with this but I'm not sure it's finished - Ethereal Units Buff - by Enhanced Schlong

  20. #20

    Default Re: Ethereal Units.... do they suck?

    Well I have played with them a bit more and I have found that in campaign they start to do well when you use buff spells. "Dance macabre" However in mp I played against a dude that bought 3 hex wraith units. I one shot each one with fate of bjuna dark magic spell from my wizard. Killed each unit to the man. 1500. points. Each. To use them effectively it seems like your opponent must not have death magic or magic weapon units. Or they get stomped. They must also be either used for flanking or get magic buffed to stand toe to toe with some other elite units. I would say they do have uses but very dependent on what your opponent allow. Overall I think they need some money or stat tweaking. Make them cost more and do more is what I say.

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