Strategy against Dacia

[Quintillius]

I have a big problem with the barbarian tribe of Dacia. During my campaign I managed to conquer Segestica and Salonae from the Greeks. Since then I've bordered Dacia and they keep sending multiple stacks with silver experienced elite troops... I cannot even defeat them in cities with my best Roman troops, they're too numerous and too good. Now they're even sending stacks to Italy and Greece. I didn't see them invading in previous campaign, but they're a serious problem to my glorious empire.

Does anyone know a particular strategy to defeat these one-eyed monstrous giants?

Current campaign (5 stacks can be counted):

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I'm afraid there is no way other than blitzing their cities. But that will interrupt my wars with Greece, Sparte and Macedon.

[LoGaL]

basically,i bet you are relying too much on your infantry to defeat them, but dacians have armor piercing damage, which chews through your legions: i would suggest tweaking your army composition to add more missiles to kill the falxmen: those missiles, in the open battles, need to flank and shoot the bastards from the rear in order to obtain sensible losses. Cavalrymust be used to protect such missiles
Infrantry must be used to hold their line for enough time

You gotta avoid front to front fight

Moreover, i strongly suggest to have at least 7-8 cities in italy that are able to produce high quality troops, in order to have a steady flow of fresh men joining the fight , expecially infantry that will need to be replaced many many times

[Quintillius]

That's a nice tactic indeed. I am afraid I'll have to give up large parts of Greece in order to stop these smelly barbarians from the Balkans. Just curious... does capturing settlements and destroying barracks or even anything prevent the AI from recruiting troops?

[Alavaria]

Use trap settlements, if you have access to archers they will do good work and will probably be cheaper (even special archers) than your shortswordmen.

Artillery and wooden-walled trap settlements are the best here.

Just curious... does capturing settlements and destroying barracks or even anything prevent the AI from recruiting troops?

Yes, it recruits from barracks like you do. The special scripted stacks only appear when you are taking Sarmizegetusa** and Docidava.

**Treasury city. Priority target.

[Quintillius]

I've never touched those two cities, only Segestica and the stacks keep spawning. I didn't declare war on Dacia as well. They've decided it's time to raze Roman settlements.

[Alavaria]

I've never touched those two cities

The stacks aren't magically spawning then. Torch some barracks.

[LoGaL]

there's no honor on torching barracks True men first torch men, then barracks

[Alavaria]

there's no honor on torching barracks True men first torch men, then barracks

Yes you should also depopulate.

Either way I don't usually plan on letting the enemy take back settlements (unless it's a sally trap) but... if that was the case they wouldn't be asking for help.

[Alavaria]

Roads aren't strategic if all you do is just have 1v1 swordfights face to face in them. Frequently more like 2- or 3-v-1 since the AI just crams everyone in.

Things only change a bit if using pikemen.

[dvk901]

I would do a couple things.....and actually I am to save myself from them. First, as suggested, look for unprotected Dacian cities and send suicide Legions\armies to capture them and destroy every building you can. It will take them a while to recover from the economic loss, as well as the ability to recruit their best troops.

Secondly, I found myself getting chewed up alive in one to one infantry combat with them because: 1. their infantry is as good as mine, and, 2. their horse archers and missile troops just ravage my lines while I'm trying to hold them off. I started setting my Legions up in a very close 'testudo' formation, and providing my armies with a lot of missile cavalry and missile units to counter theirs. Recruit mercs if you have to. The benefit of the testudo formation is that my men can still fight admirably, and also protect themselves from all the missiles raining down on them (you can hear them bouncing off the shields). Once you've outlasted their ammo...they'll all charge, and then you can take your men out of testudo and enable their pila (which will be turned off). I actually started winning battles once I did this.

Next, endeavor to place you troops in positions where they can't be 'backsided' by Dacian armies.....like choke points in the terrain or river crossings. Not always possible, but if they get behind you on the battlefield you might as well run.

Just to 'refine' this issue of attacking their unprotected cities.....you can actually throw a wrench into a faction's AI concept of 'threat' by taking an army or armies, putting them in ships, stealthily going around behind them, and attacking their cities from a different and un-explainable direction. The RTW AI perceives 'threat' largely based on regions that border them....thus, if you are at war with them, and you border them, you are a threat. But if you attack from an area where you have no regions, the AI doesn't understand this. So they will, every time as far as I've seen, divert a bunch of armies in the direction of this new and unexplained threat, and leave them there for a long time.

#22 of SUN TZU's 'Laying Plans' applies here:

"Attack him where he is unprepared, appear where you are not expected."

[Quintillius]

Dang it. Salonae is lost and the battle nearby Patavium as well. Those *** Dacians are so difficult to defeat. A full army is wiped out from earth defending the city while holding strategic roads could only kill 300 soldiers.

[dvk901]

I hate the Dacians....as well as the Gallacei. I remember when we were in development and setting this mod up.....it was obvious to me that Tone had a special place in his heart for the Dacians and the Iberian units...they were not only lovingly crafted as units, but a literal SOB to fight against. Still, our mantra was to have a mod where it was possible to get beat. We came pretty close.

[Alavaria]

I hate the Dacians....as well as the Gallacei. I remember when we were in development and setting this mod up.....it was obvious to me that Tone had a special place in his heart for the Dacians and the Iberian units...they were not only lovingly crafted as units, but a literal SOB to fight against. Still, our mantra was to have a mod where it was possible to get beat. We came pretty close.

Those and other "barbarian" factions which are so strong in melee are some of the easiest to push over if you use a missile mindset, as their armor-based defenses** are generally really bad.

**Dacian Medium Infantry: 2 armor. Akation Heavy Infantry: 9 armor.
(Both have 10 shield value)
Meanwhile a Bastarne have 0 shield (2 armor?) and while the Elite Thracian Rhompiaphoi have 15 armor, they only have 4 shield.


The Romans aren't actually that bad to fight as an AI opponent because again, they mostly rely on infantry, and theirs are not the fastest killers, though somewhat balanced out with good shield- and armor-based defenses**. No matter how you cut it, cutting apart 3000 people with cohort armor is just tiresome if you ever have to do it, even if you're just shooting them in the back and letting the corpses all clip through one another endlessly in a bend on a settlement road.

**Thureophoroi are like "13 armor & 10 shield" while a cohort might be "15 armor and 12 shield".

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For whatever reason, the Free People between me and Dacia have 2 stacks full of mostly "Thracian Psiloi" and "Dacian Medium Infantry" which is a rather hilarious choice.

[Quintillius]

I hate the Dacians....as well as the Gallacei. I remember when we were in development and setting this mod up.....it was obvious to me that Tone had a special place in his heart for the Dacians and the Iberian units...they were not only lovingly crafted as units, but a literal SOB to fight against. Still, our mantra was to have a mod where it was possible to get beat. We came pretty close.

Completely agree !!

I remember my previous campaign where beating the Gallaeci was a terribly and costly proces to do. I placed my armies on strategic bridge points to defeat them. Gladly I have been able to capture all Gallaeci settlements in Iberia without shocking costs. I think they're too busy in Gaul... they conquered all of Gaul :tears:.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Roads aren't strategic if all you do is just have 1v1 swordfights face to face in them. Frequently more like 2- or 3-v-1 since the AI just crams everyone in.

Things only change a bit if using pikemen.

1 vs 1 battles is indeed not a good thing to do. But I'm fighting Macedon & Sparta as well. These campaigns apply pressure on my recruitment centers. Sparta and Rome were allies, but they betrayed us at the moment that the glorious Romans free the Greek cities from Macedon rule.
But... they left Sparta itself undefended while besieging Corinth and Olympia. I quickly conquered the city and razed it to the ground. Sparta took Olympia, but couldn't hold it. When I reconquered this city I got a message that the faction of Sparta was vanished from earth, resulting in transforming their 4 stacks into few Free People troops. Rome shall not be betrayed.

Thanks for the tip anyway. I'll bring in pikemen from the south and more cavalry... I have too few cavalry in all campaigns.
I tried to flank the Dacians with Greek slingers (only flank, not behind), but 90% of the stones are slingered over the heads =\.


Can dvk901 post anything about the spawned stacks? The cities of Dacia were untouched.

[tone]

I hate the Dacians....as well as the Gallacei. I remember when we were in development and setting this mod up.....it was obvious to me that Tone had a special place in his heart for the Dacians and the Iberian units...they were not only lovingly crafted as units, but a literal SOB to fight against. Still, our mantra was to have a mod where it was possible to get beat. We came pretty close.

Oh yes, definitely a special place for them. They were after all some of the factions that gave the Romans the hardest time... plus also some great archaeological material....as well as being towards the end of our unit development timeline so modelling and skinning skills had developed further by then.

[Alavaria]

They aren't spawned, it's just the AI spamming you from every city nearby.

[Quintillius]

The full stacks have silver stats so I'm pretty sure they're spawned.

[Alavaria]

The full stacks have silver stats so I'm pretty sure they're spawned.

nono, the AI recruits silver stats units

This is correct.

The spawn stacks actually come with 2 XP, so there you have it.

[dvk901]

@dvk and Alavaria - out of curiosity, which exe and ai_formations are you using? Do you change them between Roman and other factions? Also, what difficulty?

I use BI pretty much exclusively. I have a campaign I've played for almost a 127 years (254 turns) and have not had a single CTD until just recently. That was an RTW trait hiccup...I just went back two saves and it never happened again.
I also use Sinuhet's AI-formations.

The full stacks have silver stats so I'm pretty sure they're spawned.

Indeed, as Logal and Alavaria said...the AI barracks are set up that way. If you are playing 0-turn, and the AI has...say, ten cities in which to recruit units of all types, and enough population (which 0-turn usually does), they can theoretically punch out five full armies every turn. In 1-turn, that would be reduced to a theoretical one full army per turn. Of course, everything has to come together for that...money, population, good barracks, etc...but it's entirely possible.

[Alavaria]

If you are playing 0-turn, and the AI has...say, ten cities in which to recruit units of all types, and enough population (which 0-turn usually does), they can theoretically punch out five full armies every turn. In 1-turn, that would be reduced to a theoretical one full army per turn.

I'll also add that on 1-turn the AI is also pretty bad at forming up those units into decent stacks if it doesn't have time to leisurely muddle its way around, so frequently you'll kill what it had when you invaded, maybe a couple spawn stacks but mostly lots of little quarter- and half-stacks which you'll scatter before you until the faction is dead and they all turn into Free People.

Of course, everything has to come together for that...money, population, good barracks, etc...but it's entirely possible.

A lot possible. Since:

• Treasuries give the AI factions a huge money bonus (especially Seleucids)
• AIs tend to back off one another when someone is fighting you (doubly if both of them are fighting you)
• Script gives them population when they recruit.....
• AIs also have some bonuses making public order generally good, so of course it will beeline the barracks line

It really is just a little while and then it will be able to spam silvershield cuirassers, royal skirmishers, chosen swordsmen etc at you all day. A massive Seleucid area (which just walking through takes quite a while, the AI sometimes never builds roads) which is endlessly spawning silvershield cuirassers et al at you from every settlement is really, really, really annoying.

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A lot changes when you take their Treasury though (part of why fighting Seleucids is annoying) as it tends to start scrambling to make cash. Still, keep moving through its territory at least if you know they still have superbarracks. It's less of a priority if they only have low-tier or no barracks in some corner somewhere, you might leave them there if it's too inconvenient (because there's some other AI behind them you rather not aggro).

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Romans aren't that bad in comparison, as while their bonuses are spread though Italy, you can clear Italy pretty fast. And at that point they go from supermen to people that can't afford their really expensive heavy infantry. Then you end up fighting tons of velites.