Buff and Shine 2.4: New Factions, Changed Recruitment and more

[nvm]

I installed Broken Crescent 2.4, then Buff and Shine 0.87 and 0.87.1 over it and now I have a save game crash as the Byzanties on turn 4 when it's transitioning from rebel to my turn. Is this because I did something wrong? In any case I'm uploading the save, could someone with a bit of spare time check if they have a crash as well before being able to transition to next turn? https://www.dropbox.com/s/7cm081uy9f...crash.sav?dl=0

[derp1337]

Your savefile crashed for me too in the same way.

[WeekendGeneral]

I installed Broken Crescent 2.4, then Buff and Shine 0.87 and 0.87.1 over it and now I have a save game crash as the Byzanties on turn 4 when it's transitioning from rebel to my turn. Is this because I did something wrong? In any case I'm uploading the save, could someone with a bit of spare time check if they have a crash as well before being able to transition to next turn? https://www.dropbox.com/s/7cm081uy9f...crash.sav?dl=0

There is a dodgy line of script that is causing the problem. You can tell if you look at the log, I'll put up a hotfix in the next few days.

Sorry about the hickups I'm still finding my feet when it comes to scripting

[WeekendGeneral]

Uploaded a patch that works. Properly this time, tested to 35 turns a couple of times with no crashes. If you've been experiencing a crash start a new game with this patch installed.
Fixed most of the Errors of BC 2.4 that are listed as such in the log.
If there are any other bugs please give me a shout out.

[nvm]

Had another crash after installing the patch on top of previous Buff and Shine, after I started a new game as Kingdom of Jerusalem, immediately after defeating the rebel stack in my territory with the army that could reach there from turn 1, so it may seem you still have a way to go. Would be happy to help you isolate it if possible

[WeekendGeneral]

Could you post the log? If you don't know how follow these steps http://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showth...ide-to-crashes

Though that is really strange, my two housemates on different computers have both got to turn 200, 103 respectively for the KOJ campaign with no crashes. I've tried that battle a number of times with no issues. I fear that either my links have something missing or your install has gotten corrupted. I'll reupload the data for a fresh download and I'll see if your log shows anything.
If you could if you get any further issues in the future could you post the log?

[Panzerblitz]

Nice work

[Geoffrey of Villehardouin]

Many changes are nice but personally I do not like some and it is an obstacle in downloading and using the mod. I personally like some of the role-playing elements. Byzantineboy should have hopefully fixed the Mongol spam issue.

One thing I do not like is attempting to fix a campaign issue by making changes in battle stats. As far as I am aware we spent unbelievable amounts of time going through every tiny aspect of the unit stats to balance the unit costs and play-tested them extensively. Annoyingly, the unit costs of KoJ and Makurian units had been arbitrarily tweaked in a previous version of BC once again to address the issue of the KoJ performing too well under the AI and the fact that the Ayyubids were having difficulties with Makuria, which was not the case historically. However, just changing the recruitment costs of these two factions made both factions extra hard to play as the human player and if we went down this road then sooner or later unit costs would have no correspondence whatsoever with what units in the game are actually worth. Additionally by making the KoJ units cost more, Armenia began to dominate campaigns in that area of the map in BC 2.3, which was even worse. Tweaking the King's Purse of the KoJ a little would have been enough. There is no need for anything else, if campaign balance is in question. If factions received King Purses proportional to their starting provinces, all had equal provinces and unit stats and costs are balanced similarly for all units in game, no single faction should have a greater chance in dominating a campaign, except those most affected by the Mongols.

One reason the KoJ currently frequently overruns the map in the west may be that the Zengids always die in early campaign. That may be the thing that needs some looking into.

I wonder if you could release a submod on just some of what you have worked on, particularly character ancillaries, that should not try to re-balance campaigns or battles or anything else in those departments.

[nvm]

It could also potentially have something do with them having access to 7 different cavalry units, and having god-tier generals. In my newest VH/VH campaign as them without this submod, I discovered that Saladdin has less command stars than my king.

Also there haven't been any wars started in 16 turns, but some of the starting ones have ended. Is this working as intended? I'm just used to AI being more aggressive and doing Total War. Not sure if I'd like to come back to that though.

[WeekendGeneral]

Also there haven't been any wars started in 16 turns, but some of the starting ones have ended. Is this working as intended? I'm just used to AI being more aggressive and doing Total War. Not sure if I'd like to come back to that though.

That is quite strange, I haven't had that yet! I'll dink around with it more shortly the plan is to update the whole thing to BC 2.42 soon. Which will be when I'm rostered out of ER.

[nvm]

That is quite strange, I haven't had that yet! I'll dink around with it more shortly the plan is to update the whole thing to BC 2.42 soon. Which will be when I'm rostered out of ER.

Oh, don't worry about it too much - again, that was my experience in vanilla BC 2.42, not with your submod

[HuoShan]

That is quite strange, I haven't had that yet! I'll dink around with it more shortly the plan is to update the whole thing to BC 2.42 soon. Which will be when I'm rostered out of ER.

Great！When will your submod update with 2.4.2？

[WeekendGeneral]

Many changes are nice but personally I do not like some and it is an obstacle in downloading and using the mod. I personally like some of the role-playing elements. Byzantineboy should have hopefully fixed the Mongol spam issue.

One thing I do not like is attempting to fix a campaign issue by making changes in battle stats. As far as I am aware we spent unbelievable amounts of time going through every tiny aspect of the unit stats to balance the unit costs and play-tested them extensively. Annoyingly, the unit costs of KoJ and Makurian units had been arbitrarily tweaked in a previous version of BC once again to address the issue of the KoJ performing too well under the AI and the fact that the Ayyubids were having difficulties with Makuria, which was not the case historically. However, just changing the recruitment costs of these two factions made both factions extra hard to play as the human player and if we went down this road then sooner or later unit costs would have no correspondence whatsoever with what units in the game are actually worth. Additionally by making the KoJ units cost more, Armenia began to dominate campaigns in that area of the map in BC 2.3, which was even worse. Tweaking the King's Purse of the KoJ a little would have been enough. There is no need for anything else, if campaign balance is in question. If factions received King Purses proportional to their starting provinces, all had equal provinces and unit stats and costs are balanced similarly for all units in game, no single faction should have a greater chance in dominating a campaign, except those most affected by the Mongols.

One reason the KoJ currently frequently overruns the map in the west may be that the Zengids always die in early campaign. That may be the thing that needs some looking into.

I wonder if you could release a submod on just some of what you have worked on, particularly character ancillaries, that should not try to re-balance campaigns or battles or anything else in those departments.

Hey Geoffrey I'm glad you enjoyed some of the mod, if you would like to make use of any part of this submod go ahead. I'd be flattered.


Before I engage with your critique I really wish to emphasize that I totally appreciate the huge amount of effort that you guys sunk into making and balancing BC to your tastes and my modifications is not a dismissal of that hard work. Most of the changes I have made largely are driven by my preferences in playstyle which I totally get if it doesn't mesh with your own.


Battle stat changes largely consist of this which needs admittedly some balancing.:

• Partially standardized upkeep costs. Overall smaller factions should be better off since upkeep is generally lower.
  
• Standardized spear bonuses - All Spear units are buffed by 1 point of attack and defense. Resulting in Spear units functioning as intended and are useful against cavalry.
  
• Slight buff of some Abassid and Ayyubid troops and small nerf of KoJ cavalry.
  
• Easier to have morale failure the change is by a tiny amount.
  
• Change to sieges and settlements to be less glitchy and perform better
  
• a few other minor tweaks

In an effort to see how factions perform without player interference I played over 20 campaigns as the slave faction. Recording, tabulating and analyzing the data almost without fail Koj, ERE, Ghurids and one of the indian factions were the dominate groups very quickly into the campaign. Hell when the mongols invasion is removed Koj becomes the big blue blob. I tried removing makuria entirely or buffing Zengids and Ayyubid none of these changes by themselves were enough in stopping the blobbing. Koj has such an amazing start in regards to income and generals combined with a seriously OP roster ensuring that it dominates nearly everytime.


I've buffed the historically dominate powers of the period by giving them maybe an extra 500 kings purse or other minor buffs. Mainly for emotive reasons I enjoy as a player to cause a historical upset by beating a powerful Ayyubid state rather than demolishing a crippled one. I totally agree on paper BC is more balanced than this submod however as a result of a cascade of factors it does not play out as such. That's why the changes were made in this submod.

[WeekendGeneral]

Great！When will your submod update with 2.4.2？

My locum ends next week so I will be able to start working on it by then so... lets say Early October?

[HuoShan]

My locum ends next week so I will be able to start working on it by then so... lets say Early October?

OK！I like your submod very mich，wait for your newone uploaded as soon as possible.

[Kaskad]

Hi WeekendGeneral. Really nice submod ! I like the changes and tweaks you made.
Are you planning any "4 turns per year" option in your future updates ?
(Or more generally, does anyone already created a mod that converts 2 turns to 4 turns per year ?)

[KingTutEgy]

I really like your submod! I hope to see an update for BC 2.4.2

[WeekendGeneral]

Hey Guys, busy working on an update for this that will work with BC 2.42. As an added bonus it will have 2 new factions.

[achilles-91]

2 new factions.. that sound great.

[HuoShan]

Hey Guys, busy working on an update for this that will work with BC 2.42. As an added bonus it will have 2 new factions.

Fantastic！I want to play your submod as soon as possible！