Campaign Map

[ZmajOgnjeni]

Did you know that Ragusans didnt allow Serbs to stay within City in the night? Ortodox could only enter city mornings and had to leave in evenings. Ragusans were very xenophobic Catholics...

I thought that subject is map and settlments?!Anyway, the fact is that Ragusian republic didnt allowed non-citizens some rights.Hardly possible that very xenofobic catholic would have pressroom in ortodox cyrilic.Everyone who were not citizen wasnt allowed to rest in the city during the night.Tell that what youve said to Mavro Orbin and Rudjer Boskovic, one of most famos citizens of Ragusa.So If you do not agree give some data.Thanks in advance.
Again, here are data of census of population in the end of 19th century.Census of catholics, made and printed in Dubrovnik:
http://postimg.org/image/64trerv5n/bf890b11/

[ZmajOgnjeni]

Ok, I will try that sorry didnt know..

[ZmajOgnjeni]

http://www.likesbooks.com/castle.html

[Wallachian]

Nice pictures but what does that have to do with the campaign map?

[ZmajOgnjeni]

http://www.likesbooks.com/castle.html

Golubac fortress

Jerina's city - Maglič (fog's fortress)
http://www.topcastles.com/kastelen.p...c&Language=en/


Smederevo fortress

http://imgur.com/gallery/EDp9B

[ZmajOgnjeni]

I thought it would be helpful to show some of the castles in 13th, 14th and late 15 century...for the map I guess

[Wallachian]

We already have done the map for the balkans and the models for the castles so no need

[ZmajOgnjeni]

We already have done the map for the balkans and the models for the castles so no need

Ok.Thanks for info

[+Marius+]

Greetings,

could anyone provide the province border map of the western Balkans for review.

I have seen some old screens and it does not look correct at all.

Census of catholics, made and printed in Dubrovnik:
http://postimg.org/image/64trerv5n/bf890b11/

That is either a falsification or a mistranslation.

There is absolutely no way that there were literally 0 Croats in the mentioned settlements, meaning both Croats and Serbs were merged together into a single term.

The census only states the info on the language spoken, not ethnical background, meaning that the Austro-Hungarian census most likely stated the language as whatever Slavic they saw fit.

In reality, there are tons of data of the Croat name being mentioned in the city in the past 1000 years, and very little mentions of Serbs.

The constant grabbing for that city from your side is ridiculous.

[Wallachian]

If by western balkans you mean croatia and bosnia they are not yet finished. In balkans only serbia, bulgaria and macedonia are finished.

[SerbianWOLF]

I also noticed mistake even for Serbia in old map preview.

[kanteljic]

As I progress, I fix settlement positions and provinces borders when I motice they are inaccuracies in the region I am working. After the entire map is done, I will also double-check the provinces with the team.

Any feedback ABOUT THE MAP is very welcome. However, I would like to politely ask: please avoid nationalist, ethinic and other kind of arguments that might lead to conflict or long debates. If you guys feel it's necessary to discuss specific historical sources or something like that, please create a thread to discuss such things in the research section. This thread is surely not the place for it. I've made it to give you guys a taste of how work is progressing. The more "conflict" I see here, the less motivated I will be to give more previews.

[+Marius+]

I will also double-check the provinces with the team.

I would advise you to double check with the public as well by posting them on this thread.

The more the people see it before the release, the more inaccuracies can be spotted.

[+Marius+]

I noticed your model of Dubrovnik, while beautiful, was inspired by walls built on a much later date.

Perhaps you should take more inspiration from this medieval depiction;

Konrad Grünenberg;
http://www.dubrovnik-travel.net/wp-c...enberg1468.jpg


Bernard von Breydenbach;
http://www.croatianhistory.net/gif/dbr.jpg


The most obvious change would be to add merlons on all towers and walls to make it look much more medieval.

The rest I leave to you because it would require much of your work to be undone.


Also, please note the Coat of Arms next to the city in both examples.

No, it's not Dalmatia.

[kanteljic]

I would advise you to double check with the public as well by posting them on this thread.

The more the people see it before the release, the more inaccuracies can be spotted.

Personally, I am against it. Opinions and sources will invariably diverge in some points. The way I see it, too many people participating in the decision-making only slow things down. If its up to me, the decisions will be made by me and the team. After the beta release, feedback from the public will be most welcome. After all, that's the purpose of betas

I noticed your model of Dubrovnik, while beautiful, was inspired by walls built on a much later date.

Perhaps you should take more inspiration from this medieval depiction;

Konrad Grünenberg;
http://www.dubrovnik-travel.net/wp-c...enberg1468.jpg


Bernard von Breydenbach;
http://www.croatianhistory.net/gif/dbr.jpg


The most obvious change would be to add merlons on all towers and walls to make it look much more medieval.

The rest I leave to you because it would require much of your work to be undone.


Also, please note the Coat of Arms next to the city in both examples.

No, it's not Dalmatia.

Thank you very much for your insight and images. I made the research and provided the references for the Ragusa model, which was then brilliantly made by Miszel. I used a miniature I have of present day Dubrovnik, plus images I researched all around the internet, including the two in your post (Bernard von Breydenbach, Peregrinatio in terram sanctam, 1485; and View of Dubrovnik. Konrad von Grünenberg, Pilgerreise von Konstanz nach Jerusalem, 1486). Hrobatos, a very competent historian of our team (and who is also a Croatian) provided some more insight of what parts should not be in our timeframe, such as the short, thick outer walls added some centuries later for protection against cannon fire. He agreed with the model concept. These are some other pictures we used:


Ideogram of Dubrovnik. Jacopo Filippo from Bergamo, Supplementumchronicarum, 1490



Drawing of the model of Dubrovnik on the St. Blaisesculpture dated mid-15th century, Wendelin Boeheim



(Dubrovnik painting, for reference of city organization and layout pre-1667 earthquake)


That being said, my point is that there was a lot of research put into it and I stand by that model. While the merlons would indeed be accurate, the strat models are not supposed to be extremelly detailed and I think it looks excelent already.

[+Marius+]

So;

1) You have no interest in very easily attainable public feedback and advice that can just as easily ignored(meaning there literally is no drawback to it whatsoever).
2) Even with the information available, the model still ended up being a 17th century fortification.
3) Will not put morions because they are to detailed even though nearly all other models presented have morions.




Legit stuff brah.

[kanteljic]

So;

1) You have no interest in very easily attainable public feedback and advice that can just as easily ignored(meaning there literally is no drawback to it whatsoever).
2) Even with the information available, the model still ended up being a 17th century fortification.
3) Will not put morions because they are to detailed even though nearly all other models presented have morions.




Legit stuff brah.

Hey, easy! I meant no offence. I've expressed my views, I am not God of Truth or anything. You can disagree with me, of course, but you don't have to attack me. Just a slight correction, I will not put morions because:

1) I am not a modeller and do not have the ability to do it.
2) Our modeller is busy with more important stuff, such as the other unique cities.
3) I don't think it is necessary, I am extremelly happy with the work he did, so I won't request him to put them.

And of course, once the mod is released, you are very welcome to download it and edit the model in whichever way you think is appropriate.

Given your rude approach, I have nothing else to say to you.

[+Marius+]

Hey, easy!

...

but you don't have to attack me.

That was a "confused" gif.

I do not see how the hell did you interpret my post as an attack lol.

1) I am not a modeller and do not have the ability to do it.
2) Our modeller is busy with more important stuff, such as the other unique cities.
3) I don't think it is necessary, I am extremelly happy with the work he did, so I won't request him to put them.

Alright, just pointed some stuff out.
Nothing more.

I was just shocked that the end result was the 17th century fort even though you had images of the medieval city.

Given your rude approach

[Darios]

Mr. Marius, one would believe that with how long this mod has been in development as well as the number of people who have worked on then quit this team that you'd go a bit easy on Mr. dcadastro. I know that a lot of people are excited to see their countries properly depicted in a Total War mod for the first time, but everything is being done at the discretion of the modders themselves, and as this is Eastern Europe we're dealing with, there will never be total agreement in regards to how some regions, cities, cultures, factions, whatever are depicted. If I were you, I'd be grateful that the Tsardoms team simply took the time to create a unique model of Ragusa rather than trying to egg them into going out of their way to repair a relatively minor issue.

[+Marius+]

that you'd go a bit easy on Mr. dcadastro.

I still sincerely fail to see in what way was I rude.

I simply posted a few things that seemed strange to me.

If I were you, I'd be grateful that the Tsardoms team simply took the time to create a unique model of Ragusa rather than trying to egg them into going out of their way to repair a relatively minor issue.

Oh, I am very grateful, again, I was simply stunned by the fact that they had information on how the city looked like in the 15th century and yet choose to ignore those sources and went straight for the 17th century design.

I already stated that the design is beautiful and the only thing that I actually suggested was putting some morions on the walls, nothing more.

I did not state anything against the model, nor did I even suggest that it should be replaced.

For some reason, whatever leisure humor I use to make a statement on this forum is seen as brash or even aggressive ( ._.)