I suggested to change ragusan culture to italian so we get more visual diversity in the region.
I suggested to change ragusan culture to italian so we get more visual diversity in the region.
Yeah Ragusa fits more with Italians probably a lot more anyway. The organisation of the state was similar to Italian city states too.
No there wasnt any more. By 12.century Dalmatian enclaves were alredy completely slavic/croatian.
There was indeed lots of connections and influence from Italy, lots of Italian words in Dalmatian dialect of Croatian, but proper Italians had significant population only in western Istria.
Ragusan humanistic and renesance literaty worrk is writte in Croatian, Italian and Latin. If they were Italians they wouldnt wrote books in Croatian.
I'm not going to pretend to be some kind of expert on Ragusa but even if the original Dalmatian speakers were well on the way towards being assimilated into Croatian speakers by the 1300s, wasn't the government and architecture of the city state itself still more influenced by Venetian culture? In that sense, the Mediterranean/Italian style architecture makes sense.
Under the Patronage of PikeStance
Never said the Ragusans were Italians and not Croatian. You guys seriously bring nationalism in everything. All I said there were still some speakers of the Romance-Dalmatian language and there were strong cultural ties with Italy.
I have literally just read about several Ragusan noble families which came from Italy and other Ragusan families that had branches in Italy aswell. And I am talking about families that existed all the way to the 19th century.
That doesn't mean they were Italians but there were ties to Italy. Just as for example in Romania several of the noble families were of greek origin, guess what, that does not make us greek does it?!
There were very strong ties to Italy. Italian architects were hired. People went to Italy, Italians came to Dalmatia. Manny went to universities to Italy. Almost all of priests went to universities in Italy. Writers copied new humanistic and renesance styles which they learned in Italy. But all of Dalmatian enclaves were completely croatized alredy before Tsardoms time frame.
culture doesn't even affect public happiness, that was in RTW
They have been influenced by Venetian culture, and little bit of East Roman Empire.Later on there was influence of Serbian culture, but mostly was mixed (dominant)Venetian and late ortodox roman culture in political organization and architecture, but they werent croatian speakers in 13th century coz there wasnt croatian language or a state.In 15th century Dubrovnik had pressroom in latin and cyrilic.
That is what we know.
Since Ragusa was Eastern Roman city at one period, it is logical.
That is possibility since Ragusa was surrounded by Serbian state until Stefan Dechanski lost Zahumlje. And during rule of Stefan Dushan, Ragusa was somehow influenced by him.
There is no way that they spoke Croatian in 13th century. Because in 13th century almost when you left city walls of Ragusa you entered Serbian lands. Ragusians used Croatian a lot later.
There was Croatian language in Croatia ! Latin was official in Hungary and therefor in Croatia, but still Croatian did exist. Please someone can misunderstand you and another fight will break out
yes agree completely!What I ment that, there wasnt some croatian culture context, becuse of existance of other geopolitical elements.Even after asimilation of romanic groups in this area by the slavic element, political (roman) titules left such as> patricia (political), principes (military) and some trade elite.
There will be not misunderstanding, if we are trying to talk about history facts, political organization and architecture of Ragusa/Dubrovnik.For example, mostly peolpe in medieval Montenegro spoked (dominant) serbian and latin language, but there was obviously strong influence of Venice also, like in Ragusa case, specially in architecture in maritime geography part of todays Montenegro.If there was some croatian cultural context, then creator of this mod should named their state (for example Croatian medieval state), because we know that political powers such as Venice or other, tryed to spread their political onfluence with culture or military might, and that would not exist without the state!When I last time saw it this wasnt some submod of TATW..
Let's just stop this nationalistic conversation, every time it ends bad
Last edited by Dusan Silni; June 12, 2016 at 02:47 PM.
Tell me who stated anything about religion ? Ragusians were catholic, everyone knows that.
@ZmajOgnjeni: USE EDIT BUTTON. Rules of this site are "not to post comments in a row until some time has passed or you have something very important to add".
@Dusan Silni: I used 0 nationalistic words.