IS it possible for someone to create ship models in Attila?

[AnthoniusII]

The question says it all.
We have a lot of Roman Dromons and landing Dromons blueprints and we would like them in game.
Is there a tool for it or its part of the tools that CA/SEGA forgot to add in the tool box?

[Slytacular]

I don't think anybody has attempted to ever mod naval units in Total War. I plan to test out the waters by creating a cog. If you can go ahead and try testing it out by making a custom dromon, that would be progress.

[You_Guess_Who]

Its possible, just very complex. See these threads:

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...A-s-ship-model
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...models-editing

Now, naval modelling needs two aspects: the models_naval and the variantmodels. The models_naval determines the collision models, where the sailors walk and positioned, where the cameras located, where the oars are positioned, where the siege engines are, etc.; whereas the variantmodels are the appearance part - how the ship looks. For instance, you can assign a naval unit with dromon models_naval but with longship models variant. Of course the appearance will not match, but it'll functionally work.

The rigidmodels of the variantmodels seems feasible, someone have done it:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

That's Primergy making his own custom-made USS Monitor model atop an Japanese Kobaya. The models_naval is still a kobaya though, noting the placement of the flags and where the crews are standing.

The models_naval though, its very complex. So far only simple edits were done, such as this:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Its just more ballista laid in a broadside manner atop a liburnian. Something more complex than that would need some easy and practical way to import the xml into a modelling tool.

[Karnil Vark Khaitan]

Hey can I some how get my hand on the files to the Broadside Liburnian?
Would really love to make the ships that way ^^

[AnthoniusII]

Its possible, just very complex. See these threads:

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...A-s-ship-model
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...models-editing

Now, naval modelling needs two aspects: the models_naval and the variantmodels. The models_naval determines the collision models, where the sailors walk and positioned, where the cameras located, where the oars are positioned, where the siege engines are, etc.; whereas the variantmodels are the appearance part - how the ship looks. For instance, you can assign a naval unit with dromon models_naval but with longship models variant. Of course the appearance will not match, but it'll functionally work.

The rigidmodels of the variantmodels seems feasible, someone have done it:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

That's Primergy making his own custom-made USS Monitor model atop an Japanese Kobaya. The models_naval is still a kobaya though, noting the placement of the flags and where the crews are standing.

The models_naval though, its very complex. So far only simple edits were done, such as this:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Its just more ballista laid in a broadside manner atop a liburnian. Something more complex than that would need some easy and practical way to import the xml into a modelling tool.

That is a start. Question.
Can those balistas work as balistas or so far they are easthetic additions?

[You_Guess_Who]

That is a start. Question.
Can those balistas work as balistas or so far they are easthetic additions?

Working, of course.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

This method also works for adding extra towers to ships that do not supposed to have towers or engines(towers that shoots arrows are part of naval_units naval_weapons rather than naval variants)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Slytacular]

I'm thinking about using the ship deck models as a reference of where the units will be placed on the deck, and then create a model around it. It'll be lazy way to approach this process, but I think it might be an effective one. I'll try to work on a cog this week to test this out.

[AnthoniusII]

Adding balistas that work.
Adding arrow towers.
Guys could someone create this?




Or atleast something close to it ussing existed ship models?
Nottice that there are at least two towers and an onager in between. You could add 2 balistas in every side of each tower and the GREEK FIRE.
You can call it Vasilikos Pamphylos (biger size of imperial greek fire Dromon).

[You_Guess_Who]

Guys could someone create this?

I'm not a modeller, more of a db guy, so I cannot say about the feasibility of creating the appearance. However, I can say about these:

Attila and R2 ship can only have two types of naval weapons per ship, unlike S2/NTW/ETW that can carry seven types per ship. So you can't have siphon+tower+ballista+onager, you have to pick only two. However, the ship can carry more than one of each type. So 1 siphon + 3 archer tower is possible.

Unlike all the ships in Attila, which are all pentekonteres, this one is a bireme. No problem, its quite feasible to put an additional level of oars, not too hard.

I see that this ship upper deck is level from fore to aft, no prominent forecastle or aftcastle like most ship model in Attila. This might pose a problem, since that means the existing dromon plan already in the game cannot be used in a straightforward manner. However, I cannot say whether raising the entire midsection of the ship are practically hard or not, since that haven't been done. If you doesn't mind with the low midsection, then it'll be much easier.


Appearance-wise, one'll need to make new prow model, an housing for the siphon, new stern model (medieval dromon sterns have those two-pronged look, am I right?), and new sails - Heavy Dromon model in Attila have three mast, fore and mid with square, only the mizzenmast are lateen. Dromonarion sail models in Attila have 2 lateen sails but definitely too small for a Pamphylos.

[AnthoniusII]

My friend thank you for your explanations.
Even if a "3rd" weapon could be only as easthetic addition it would be great.
Everything starts with a "wild" or a crazy idea that some people finally take some crusial steps to make them happen.
Unforthunatly i am too old to understand how Rome II and Attila modding works.
But if you will find some spare time to try to make some eforts i would be most greatfull.
Ussing the existed Dromons models you could create a more realistic line of those ships by adding weapon varietions.
1st version,
No wooden towers.
One onager and 4 small balistas as they are in your example.
2nd version
One wooden tower and and 4 balistas
3rd version 2 towers and two onagers.
I do not know if Rome II lithovolos in smaller versions can be added as well.
Who knows maybe one day we could create this machine and added it on the ships.


because that is what modding means. Crazy ideas that become true by modders.
After all 6 years ago when i sked the land version of that machine for M2TW/KIngdoms it seamd imposible to be made.
But here it is today thanks to the efforts of many kind people.


Thanks anyway.

[Slytacular]

If that is a medieval vessel, I can help to make it.

[AnthoniusII]

Yes Dromons "Byzantine" ships had varius sizes. Ussualy they had one wooden castle in the center of the ship (xilocastron) but were equipted with balistas (4-6) and onagers 2-4 according to the size.
Biger Dromons had 2 wooden towers (castles) instead of one. Only the Dromons that were stationed in Constantinople had the Greek fire because of the secret of the weapon.
Dromons used from 500AD to 1204AD.
If you like i can post some ships examples to help you constract a small and simple and a biger and powerfull with/without greek fire versions.

[Slytacular]

1204 the fall of Constantinople and the establishment of the Latin Empire? What happened to those Dromons?

[AnthoniusII]

After 1025AD and the death of Emperor Basill 2nd that left the Empire with the bigest gold deposits, the bigest army on the western hemisphear and the bigest fleet in the world, there was a great decline.
Many bad Emperors spend that gold into pleasures and in to hirring merceanries that were loyal to the gold and not to the state.
Navy was among the domestic military that seamed as "threat" to those emperors and started to demolish it!
Then they game the rights to Venice and later Genoa to "defend" the Empire with their ships.
In 1025 Basill 2nd prepered a fleet of 400 Dromons and 400 transposrts for his Italian campaign. Not counting the provincial coastal fleets that continued to guard their homelands.
In 1204 there were only 25 Dromons in Constantinople and they were almost unable to be used!
Komeneans Emperors (some of them) tried to re-create domestic fleets but they failed.
Even so...Roman ship designs with Arabic infuences were dominated the sea via Arabic fleets.

[You_Guess_Who]

At the least, one can port the models_naval from older TW games:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Not straightforward though, need some changes to the files themselves because of course there are lots of changes between the older games to Attila, but it can be done. Those are models_naval of S2TW Sengoku Bune, ETW Sloop, and S2TW Nanban Trade Ship; You can see the outline of the ships simply from where the crew are standing. Its fully functional, if you pepper them with arrows, you can see where the arrow sticks at the collisionmodels.

Its just the models_naval, not including the rigidmodels for appearance, since I don't have the tools to do it. But someone good at modelling may be able to pull it out, or remaking it.

[Benjin]

How did you manage to port those models_naval from the older TW games into Attila? What exact changes do you need to make in order for that to work?