Chaos vs Dwarves lets play! 2nd vid feat; Dwarves! And guns!

[Imperator Artorius]

So far from what I've seen the combat is reminiscent of Medieval 2's, and if Louen's kill animation on the crypt horror is anything to go by, there is probably a % chance to do a what I call "Sync kill" and that (unlike complete matched combat) won't break the game in any shape or form. Yes a model might last 2-3 seconds more than it would have if it is immune during its animation, but it'll get boned after it is done with it without question. So I feel it is good.

Even immersion has to make some sacrifices for the sake of gameplay. Ladders, I'm not willing to accept, Cav using lances in melee, I'm not willing.

But some animations that models perform miss each other? Well I do not mind that at all.

The animations aren't perfect but its an improvement over melee in the post-Medieval 2 games. Definitely requires work but hopefully this is TW battles back on track in the melee department after the mistake that was mo-capped duels, which only seemed to look mildly good in CA's trailers for culture packs (Tbf, its all those trailers actually consisted of).

[Totalheadache]

So far from what I've seen the combat is reminiscent of Medieval 2's, and if Louen's kill animation on the crypt horror is anything to go by, there is probably a % chance to do a what I call "Sync kill" and that (unlike complete matched combat) won't break the game in any shape or form. Yes a model might last 2-3 seconds more than it would have if it is immune during its animation, but it'll get boned after it is done with it without question. So I feel it is good.

Even immersion has to make some sacrifices for the sake of gameplay. Ladders, I'm not willing to accept, Cav using lances in melee, I'm not willing.

But some animations that models perform miss each other? Well I do not mind that at all.

Well there's a miss and then there's a unit flying backwards that hasnt been hit by anything physical. You could say well it's magic but alarmingly it doesnt look like this in quite a few vids have seen.

Look perhaps it isnt as bad as I fear but am not willing to take a chance on it anymore.

Not long though till we know the truth.

[Person012345]

Even immersion has to make some sacrifices for the sake of gameplay.

I am not willing to accept this in any way. I have to say whilst generally I think the game looks really good, I do find the death animations to be particularly absurd in some cases and the lack of real... connection between units to be disappointing to look at.

As far as I'm concerned, immersion is the number 1 most important thing and cannot be sacrificed for anything. That doesn't mean a game has to be realistic, it means I have to be immersed. If I am constantly having my immersion broken, no matter how good your gameplay, I am not going to be enjoying myself.

[Aquila_Mars]

That is your own opinion though. If immersion is number one we might as well simply get a bunch of CGI's for a game where you click to move to the next scene.

What I meant by even immersion has to make sacrifices is basically this, while immersion is very important for me as well, I also want a *game* to play. You could argue rome 2 was very *immersive* with its awesome (sarcasm) fighting animations, but it so totally broke the game that it was practically ridiculous. And while yes, the animations could be improved for melee fighting I don't think it is such a huge issue.

I'm sorry to break this to anyone but what would you rather have? One on one fights all day every day or generic animations that while look good, are not exactly *immersive*. I would vote for the latter, because I'm buying a game. Not a movie. And in this case the obviously better quality fighting animations (and via this the more immersive) will have to give way to more generic ones for the gameplay.

On a note though, I do agree with your "real connection between units" that is true, and I think some things could be done about that. I suppose reducing the range for melee units that have the issue of hitting without connecting to hit would practically make that issue go away.

[flippers]

Yet to see chaos vs greenskins

[flippers]

Is it just me or is there any actual physical contact between units or do they just swing into thin air and a unit goes flying?

I mean actually am almost impressed so far what CA are doing with what I think should be now an extinct engine but there is something that isnt quite right about the animations and have seen it in almost every vid.

Isnt this a possible immersion killer? It might explain how they are combating perf issues as less calculations means more fps..(in a very basic sense).

Blood and gore DLC would be interesting to see its animation for sure

[Marsonus III]

I used to play a lot of fantasy TT Warhammer Fantasy and played as Chaos, so I’m uber-excited to play them in a Total War game. Whether the pre-order bonus was a concern for anyone else, I pre-ordered as soon as I saw Total War Warhammer pop up in my news feed so Chaos being a pre-order/first week bonus was irrelevant to me.

As for Chaos being powerful - they’re meant to be and that is how they are on TT as well. Their mid-tier melee units (Chaos Warrior) are pretty much the equal of most other factions high-tier melee. There has been a lack of Marauder units which I would’ve liked to have seen in these gameplay videos as those are the lightest melee the Chaos field but can pack a punch if upgraded correctly. Chaos also has pretty much 0 range units so they have to close the gap quickly, and the main reason they’re heavily armoured.

The Hero and Legendary units are meant to be overpowered, and I’m glad that they seem to have stuck to that on this game. Focus fire and monster slayer units bring them down quickly and this has always been the case in TT. Just because the dev or Youtube gamers can’t do the micro-management doesn’t mean they should be nerfed, in my opinion. Keep them strong - but keep them expensive, just as it should be.

I had a few interesting battles with my friend who fielded a Dwarf army against my Chaos. The Dwarfs strength lies in their cannons, range and tanked up melee. They’re slow, have no magic, but have tough units and lots of range capability. As is the case in the video, they have a lot of firepower but it isn’t utilised correctly by the AI - which is no fault of the faction, just the scrubby AI. In the hands of a human player, cannons would’ve been used a lot better and flanks better protected.

I lost a lot of games against my Dwarf friend because he got lucky cannon strikes on my Chosen, Chaos Warriors etc. Gyrocopters were also devastating when used right as Chaos have almost no counters. The only counter shown in his video is the Exalted Hero on the Manticore - without that the Gyrocopter would’ve just hovered endlessly.

[Totalheadache]

I used to play a lot of fantasy TT Warhammer Fantasy and played as Chaos, so I’m uber-excited to play them in a Total War game. Whether the pre-order bonus was a concern for anyone else, I pre-ordered as soon as I saw Total War Warhammer pop up in my news feed so Chaos being a pre-order/first week bonus was irrelevant to me.

As for Chaos being powerful - they’re meant to be and that is how they are on TT as well. Their mid-tier melee units (Chaos Warrior) are pretty much the equal of most other factions high-tier melee. There has been a lack of Marauder units which I would’ve liked to have seen in these gameplay videos as those are the lightest melee the Chaos field but can pack a punch if upgraded correctly. Chaos also has pretty much 0 range units so they have to close the gap quickly, and the main reason they’re heavily armoured.

The Hero and Legendary units are meant to be overpowered, and I’m glad that they seem to have stuck to that on this game. Focus fire and monster slayer units bring them down quickly and this has always been the case in TT. Just because the dev or Youtube gamers can’t do the micro-management doesn’t mean they should be nerfed, in my opinion. Keep them strong - but keep them expensive, just as it should be.

I had a few interesting battles with my friend who fielded a Dwarf army against my Chaos. The Dwarfs strength lies in their cannons, range and tanked up melee. They’re slow, have no magic, but have tough units and lots of range capability. As is the case in the video, they have a lot of firepower but it isn’t utilised correctly by the AI - which is no fault of the faction, just the scrubby AI. In the hands of a human player, cannons would’ve been used a lot better and flanks better protected.

I lost a lot of games against my Dwarf friend because he got lucky cannon strikes on my Chosen, Chaos Warriors etc. Gyrocopters were also devastating when used right as Chaos have almost no counters. The only counter shown in his video is the Exalted Hero on the Manticore - without that the Gyrocopter would’ve just hovered endlessly.

If they had included the Elves or another faction I probably would have taken a punt...

[Marsonus III]

If they had included the Elves or another faction I probably would have taken a punt...

Surely they will add those as addon packs in the future? I heard at this game would be the first in a trilogy (not really looked into it) though so possibly focus on WoC, VC, Bret and Empire this game and Elves, Dark Elves, Tomb Kings etc in the next ones?

[♘Top Hat Zebra]

Yep. This is the first in a trilogy of stand-alone titles. But, each one can also be combined, in order to create a single, grand grand campaign.

Im 90% positive that the next game in the series will definitely feature elves, if not this one.

[Påsan]

Well Wood Elves are an obvius choice for a race pack, so they might be the first elves out.

[Totalheadache]

See that's just it. After all the issues we have had over the years with the various releases and they know we'd prefer (for the most part) dlcs which would add new regions, new scenarios, new maps (different citadels...i.e the list is huge what they could do), more rpg type things etc dont you think they should give us at least the factions that a lot of people like.

I.e what we have plus chaos/elves/bretonnia and then the next dlcs should be a whole rpg scenario that will open up the tomb kings. E.g the vampire counts unlock a tomb etc..or the lizardmen and skaven appear on the scene.

Rather than this "faction unlock" dlc crap. It's just easy money grabbing...

If they had launched with more factions I think I would have got the game knowing full well they'd probably try and sell me lizardmen dlc later on down the line.

Really we should put a stop to this faction unlock whoring.

Funnily enough another sega title COH2 did the same thing..."unlock the brits" etc. How about no? Launch the game with the main protaganists i.e Britain/Germany/Russia/America?

[Frost, colonel]

I.e what we have plus chaos/elves/bretonnia and then the next dlcs should be a whole rpg scenario that will open up the tomb kings. E.g the vampire counts unlock a tomb etc..or the lizardmen and skaven appear on the scene.

I like your idea of how the game could open up, nice idea, don't know how that fits with lore, or even should?
But you could never get enough gamers to unite to stop faction DLC. Also certainly with Warhammer, I think for CA and Co to make enough money, all the main factions in the base game would put the price up to much, ie most gamers wouldn't pay the price.

Maybe I am wrong, but it seems to me that seen as the races are quite different(more work), and costs of developing games do go up over the years, that it is not realistic to give us most of the Warhammer factions at launch.
I do agree with you regarding COH2, now that just seems like greed, and the DLC is very very poor for the money, quite appalling in my simple view when I scroll down the list on Steam.

Time will tell us the value and quality of the DLC for Warhammer, or even if the game captures our interest long enough to even consider buying it, hopefully enough mod support will help.

[geala]

Not that again. Opinions differ. I'm totally willing to pay for faction/race DLCs which are my preferred ones too. Never was interested in the mini campaigns DLCs f.e.. I waited to buy ATW till the Blood DLC was announced and waited to play it until after the Sands DLC was out. So my only problem with the factions DLC is the time I have to wait. I'm still considering to buy WTW only after the Woodelves are playable.

As to the battle, Darren played it the other way round and won allegedly two times out of eight (?) with the Dwarfs. I like a very strong Chaos faction (cause I give a damn about multiplayer) which I will never play as but live in fear of it.

[Totalheadache]

Not that again. Opinions differ. I'm totally willing to pay for faction/race DLCs which are my preferred ones too. Never was interested in the mini campaigns DLCs f.e.. I waited to buy ATW till the Blood DLC was announced and waited to play it until after the Sands DLC was out. So my only problem with the factions DLC is the time I have to wait. I'm still considering to buy WTW only after the Woodelves are playable.

As to the battle, Darren played it the other way round and won allegedly two times out of eight (?) with the Dwarfs. I like a very strong Chaos faction (cause I give a damn about multiplayer) which I will never play as but live in fear of it.

not that again? there's no need to be childish about it or try and cause a flame. If you dont agree, that's fine but let others have their opinions without trying the old "you whiners". Some people want more for their money.

I dont tend to revisit restaurants where I just get a small bit of chicken and fries but I do go back somewhere where I also get half a chicken + fries + salad and perhaps a nice side of BBQ sauce (however that tends to go bad after the place becomes really popular) You catch my drift..

If you think it's good value for money, ok. I dont.

Plus I dont like the idea of material that's already probably be done and just delayed to make more quick cash later on. Some call it good business, some could call it bending over backside and being taken for a ride.

It does depend though on how good your base product is. Experience tells me this hasnt been the case with Total wars for some time. But dont get me wrong it's part of a sickness that effect other games as well so it's not just CA/Sega.

Fifa16 is shocking and the money you need to spend on packs for players. Disgusting. (fell into that trap myself, makes you feel dirty).

[Påsan]

Not that again. Opinions differ. I'm totally willing to pay for faction/race DLCs which are my preferred ones too. Never was interested in the mini campaigns DLCs f.e.. I waited to buy ATW till the Blood DLC was announced and waited to play it until after the Sands DLC was out. So my only problem with the factions DLC is the time I have to wait. I'm still considering to buy WTW only after the Woodelves are playable.

As to the battle, Darren played it the other way round and won allegedly two times out of eight (?) with the Dwarfs. I like a very strong Chaos faction (cause I give a damn about multiplayer) which I will never play as but live in fear of it.

Darren said several times that the Dwarf army was not the best to bring against a monster-heavy chaos army.

[Leesin]

It actually looks awkward and strange without any sync/scripted combat animations, I would have liked a middle ground, I am guessing only hero units have this going on?. Just looks ugly and unimmersive when ever single soldier just looks like they're standing there taking it in turns to hit each other.

[Frost, colonel]

Darren said several times that the Dwarf army was not the best to bring against a monster-heavy chaos army.

So which faction would of being better, obviously one with it's own monsters, but the Dwarfs had good artillary and muskets? + the engineers boosts, also the slayers, the torpedo unit and the slayer Lord. I thought that little lot(pun intended) was reasonably capable?

[Habelo]

I too think that "immersion" is really important, i want to get the feel of being a general commanding an army. If things like the steamtank headbutting and other childish animation persists, that will break it completely. Things being realistic makes the gameplay way better imo.

[geala]

Darren said several times that the Dwarf army was not the best to bring against a monster-heavy chaos army.

Also maybe he is not the best player but surely better than me. In the video of him playing as the dwarfs they fare quite well. And again, if Chaos is really strong I would be very pleased. I wonder how Wood Elves would work against Chaos (I never played Warhammer games).