Missile Knockback

**papaya beast** · April 25, 2016, 04:08 AM

I don't know if there has already been a thread about this, but before I started playing DEI I used mod packs from a guy named Sebidee on the Workshop. In addition to some cool unit packs and whatnot, he also had this gem, which really changed game play for me (in a positive way, I think): http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfile...ebidee+missile

Basically, it added weight for projectiles to mimic the actual effect of an enemy soldier getting hit by missiles. For instance, a volley of javelins not only kills some enemies, but also makes the charging enemy stagger for a bit. It gives missile units a slight buff in that they can disrupt formations physically, which I believe to be an accurate representation of ancient warfare. After all, a charging infantryman who takes two javelins to his shield will run slightly slower, simply due to the weight of the spears he's now inadvertently carrying.

Obviously missile units might need to be slightly re-balanced with this sort of buff, but is there any way for this to be implemented? Do others agree that this would add to the historical accuracy of DEI? Does this sort of added physics interest anyone else?

Cheers! And as always, thanks for all your hard work

**FlashHeart07** · April 25, 2016, 04:14 AM

Not very difficult to add as its already in the db files. I did it for horse archers once and it looked quite nice. Disrupted the entire formation.
what it does to unit stats and unit performance, I dont know. Battle mechanics is not my strongest side of modding

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**KAM 2150** · April 25, 2016, 04:50 AM

I added it at first and then took it out long time ago, since it caused more problems then added to the gameplay. For example knockback works the same way on elephant and fully armoured cataphract as on infantrymen, since the game does not see a difference between the two. It pretty much made AI cav and elephants useless as they were almost never able to charge and then just walked into the combat. If someone wants it, is is very easy to add but if you will go this way, then only add it to javelins, arrows have no stopping power, hence they won't stagger you.

**papaya beast** · April 26, 2016, 03:30 AM

Thanks for the replies gents!

Originally Posted by KAM 2150

For example knockback works the same way on elephant and fully armoured cataphract as on infantrymen, since the game does not see a difference between the two.

Isn't there a way to adjust the weight though? I know with Sebidee's mod, slings had really low knockback (which maybe for DEI could be removed entirely), arrows slightly more (which for DEI could be made like the slings in Sebidee's) and the javelins with the highest. In Sebidee's version, I think the weight variables were too high, making missile units OP (especially since the AI cannot use this new feature as strategically as the player -- the curse of all modding). But certain AI factions will be advantaged by this, possibly the ones that need it the most (like the eastern satrapies, which are currently very easy to steamroll).

If nothing else, could you please PM me with info on how to add this manually? It's the one major feature from another mod I'm sad to see missing from DEI

**KAM 2150** · April 26, 2016, 03:50 AM

Well, bows would not make you stagger when they hit your shield at all, same for slings, when riot police is moving forward even rocks do not make those guys stop in place ;P Feature would be only realistic for javelins. Also like I said, there is no weight difference, with knocback set to lowest possible value, even elephant will be stopped in place by a sling, main difference between how elephants/cav react to knockback compared to infantry is that elephants and cavalry units will stop in place since there is no mechanic for them being pished forward so increasing knockback has no effect on them, while for infantry they will be thrown around with higher knocback values.

Here is what you need with PFM to search and edit:
1. Make a new pack and export projetiles_tables from DeI db and give the pack a name like @@@@@knockback, that way the file will load before DeI.
2. Open the table and click at DeI_projectiles, search for the column called shockwave_radius (near the end)
3. Set values to possitive ones in order to get knockback, use rather small values like 0.5.
4. Balancing is on your head as I can't really remember exact values now