MOS, the ultimate TATW experience.

[Veteraan]

I don't think any of the leading developers of MOS is still active. I haven't seen Stylx or HotW for a very long time.

I am the only remaining active team member MOS and I basically am nothing more than a Caretaker at this point. Stylix quit about six years ago I guess, after having to deal with a very serious RL problem. Creating MOS 1.7 was a cooperation between Hero of the West, Greymane and myself. Greymane stopped visiting this forum quite some time ago now and HOW decided to quit modding entirely about two years ago.

[MIKE GOLF]

And as a former member from MOS 1.1 through MOS 1.62, I see no future for this mod. But having spent many years working on it I will try and assist others who may have issues and help them overcome those problems.

On a side note, I have posted over 10 times in the last 24 hours, something I haven't done in a few years, maybe by the time I am 90 and on my third heart I may qualify for the ten year, ten thousand post award.

[Roma_Victrix]

Thanks for the answers, you guys! I figured as much. I haven't played MOS since like early 2018, so pardon me, because I don't really keep up with these things.

[MaulMachine]

I think he's not deleted, just sent off the map. I think he'll be sent back with a stack when the faction gets close to defeat.

Huh. I've never seen him reappear. Nor have I seen the Witch-King reappear when I am doing the Destroy the Ring quest.

Oh well.

[Roma_Victrix]

Hey guys, your game has a significant error regarding the "Bandits" unit that causes a CTD, one that has been around for years but you guys have either not noticed or never bothered to fix. It's due to the officer "slave captain" designated for that unit. Removing the officer from the export_descr_unit file fixes the problem if you're just looking for an easy fix, but what you should is update the mod with a full correction as stipulated below.

When you open the "battle_models_modelsdb" file in the "unit_models" folder, it becomes clear that this is all due to a minor clerical error. The following entry from that file as it stands right now accidentally duplicates the first lines about models and textures while failing to include the attachment sets:

13 slave_captain 
1 1 
75 unit_models/_Generals_and_Captains/Northern_Captain/slave_captain_lod0.mesh 6400 
2
5 slave 
82 unit_models/_Generals_and_Captains/Northern_Captain/textures/slave_captain.texture 
89 unit_models/_Generals_and_Captains/Northern_Captain/textures/slave_captain_normal.texture 0 
4 merc 
82 unit_models/_Generals_and_Captains/Northern_Captain/textures/slave_captain.texture 
89 unit_models/_Generals_and_Captains/Northern_Captain/textures/slave_captain_normal.texture 0 
2
5 slave 
82 unit_models/_Generals_and_Captains/Northern_Captain/textures/slave_captain.texture 
89 unit_models/_Generals_and_Captains/Northern_Captain/textures/slave_captain_normal.texture 0 
4 merc 
82 unit_models/_Generals_and_Captains/Northern_Captain/textures/slave_captain.texture 
89 unit_models/_Generals_and_Captains/Northern_Captain/textures/slave_captain_normal.texture 0  
4 
4 None 
14 MTW2_Swordsman 0  
1 
18 MTW2_Sword_Primary 0 
5 horse 
18 MTW2_HR_Non_Shield 0  
1 
18 MTW2_Sword_Primary 0 
8 elephant 
18 MTW2_Elephant_Crew 0  
1 
18 MTW2_Sword_Primary 0 
5 camel 
18 MTW2_HR_Non_Shield 0  
1 
18 MTW2_Sword_Primary 0 -1 0 0 0 0 0 0
16 -0.090000004 0 0 -0.34999999 0.80000001 0.60000002

The duplicate lines should be replaced with those directed towards the appropriate files in the "data/unit_models/attachmentsets" folder. The ones you need to list from over there are clearly the "slave_captain_diff.texture" and "slave_captain_norm.texture" files. Please consider updating the MOS patch with this particular fix.

[Araval]

Are you sure it fixed the CTD for you? Because this kind of duplicate entry shouldn't cause a crash but just messed up textures.

[Roma_Victrix]

Yes, it 100% fixed the CTD issue, because I was able to fight the siege of Erelond (on that island near Umbar) without issue. I remember this happening long ago about two years ago but I just solved the issue in the exact same way and forgot to bring it up here on the forum. Removing the slave captain from export_descr_unit or just fixing that entry in the battle_modelsdb file fixes the problem.

[Veteraan]

Yes, it 100% fixed the CTD issue, because I was able to fight the siege of Erelond (on that island near Umbar) without issue. I remember this happening long ago about two years ago but I just solved the issue in the exact same way and forgot to bring it up here on the forum. Removing the slave captain from export_descr_unit or just fixing that entry in the battle_modelsdb file fixes the problem.

As I am for quite some time now the only MOS team member that is still active on this site, I have looked at this. Got some spontaneous help from MIKE GOLF and now have an edited BMDB with the correct slave_captain settings. If all goes well, there will be a new All inclusive patch uploaded. However, there is another (ancient and much bigger) issue I'm looking at now, with some other helpful folks. I will include the fix for that one also, when it's ready (provided we get it working satisfactory).

[Roma_Victrix]

That's very good to hear! Thanks for paying attention to this.

[Roma_Victrix]

LOL. I have a super badass Acer laptop now (replacing my crap HP Pavilion Notebook which had a horrible "HD Family Graphics card") and I can play both Europa Barbarorum II and MOS on fully high graphics settings, hell even Rome II if I wanted to play it, and yet the damn spiders in MOS still makes it crash to desktop.

What the hell? Goddamn spiders. I knew I should have removed them from recruitment as available mercenaries before the start of the game. I'll do that now I guess. Kicking all graphics down temporarily just to fight this one silly battle. Thank God I'm not fighting Ents all the time either.

[Veteraan]

LOL. I have a super badass Acer laptop now (replacing my crap HP Pavilion Notebook which had a horrible "HD Family Graphics card") and I can play both Europa Barbarorum II and MOS on fully high graphics settings, hell even Rome II if I wanted to play it, and yet the damn spiders in MOS still makes it crash to desktop.

What the hell? Goddamn spiders. I knew I should have removed them from recruitment as available mercenaries before the start of the game. I'll do that now I guess. Kicking all graphics down temporarily just to fight this one silly battle. Thank God I'm not fighting Ents all the time either.

You can try the files in this POST. I have tested them in MOS 1.7 and while crashing creatures are notoriously random, the results in MOS 1.7 were quite promising. Especially when playing with only a few Ents, Spiders or Wolves there were no crashes at all. However, they are absolutely rubbish in TATW (in my tests) and the Alternative patch (as mentioned by Leo).

We are looking at another solution, that promises even better results, but that is stil WIP at this time. Jurcek1987 may yet provide a solution for the other mods too, but for that we also have to wait and see.

[Roma_Victrix]

You can try the files in this POST. I have tested them in MOS 1.7 and while crashing creatures are notoriously random, the results in MOS 1.7 were quite promising. Especially when playing with only a few Ents, Spiders or Wolves there were no crashes at all. However, they are absolutely rubbish in TATW (in my tests) and the Alternative patch (as mentioned by Leo).

We are looking at another solution, that promises even better results, but that is stil WIP at this time. Jurcek1987 may yet provide a solution for the other mods too, but for that we also have to wait and see.

Cool! Thanks for letting me know. It's great that you guys are still working on this after all these years. I just downloaded those files and put them in the appropriate folders. I will let you know what happens. I'll start a random temporary new campaign and do some cheats to immediately move_character a general with an army over to that remote island in the northwest with the 3 spider units. That's what made the game crash for me, although I've unfortunately had the game crash in the past during pivotal crusade sieges fighting Mordor and had to replay them on low graphics due to the damn spiders. Hopefully that never happens again with this particular fix, because the AI usually doesn't bring more than one or two spider mercenary units to a single battle. I'll let you know the results in the thread you linked to above.

[Mapengraf]

I'll be downloading MOS today after reinstalling TATW on my new ACER laptop, which has such a better graphics card than my previous one. I can actually play the antiquity mod Europa Barbarorum for M2TW Kingdoms on it smoothly with all graphics settings on high, it's so sweet. If I can do that with EBII, MOS should be a breeze, but I'll let you know if I see any crashes with Ents or those damn spiders. I have a good feeling I won't experience any CTDs like that anymore with my new laptop, which would be such a relief.

Are you me? Literally doing the same. I have also learned of the HURB mod for Stainless Steel.

MOS does have its place among the TATW submods. What impressed me the most were the scrips that spawned temporary armies - like that one case where I had a mini-campaign with such a stack as Lórien helping the Rohirrim. And the High Elves have a script that decreases their population until the player proves to them there is a fate for them in Middle Earth. Add to that the ability to resurrect your allied factions - something only extensive scripts can provide, and MOS employs plenty.

[gekp78]

I love this submod, but one thing that drives me crazy is how the OOTM lose Moria so quickly every time. I understand the mod team is not really active, so how hard would it be for myself to add in a new settlement in between Moria and Lorien? Could call it "Moria - East Gate." Ideally I would also like to have it in the garrison script as well, and spawn an army upon capture. I also believe the mod is at the settlement limit, but I believe that one of Fangorn's settlements could be removed without great loss in immersion. Thank you for all your work over the years!

[MIKE GOLF]

I love this submod, but one thing that drives me crazy is how the OOTM lose Moria so quickly every time. I understand the mod team is not really active, so how hard would it be for myself to add in a new settlement in between Moria and Lorien? Could call it "Moria - East Gate." Ideally I would also like to have it in the garrison script as well, and spawn an army upon capture. I also believe the mod is at the settlement limit, but I believe that one of Fangorn's settlements could be removed without great loss in immersion. Thank you for all your work over the years!

If you have never done this before it could result in much weeping, wailing and gnashing of teeth! When I get home I will post a few links to some tutorials to help you along the way. I think that MOS uses 199 settlements/regions so you will have to remove one region to make your new region. If you search for Geomod, a tool made by Gigantus will make your task much easier.

[Roma_Victrix]

So did someone at some point remove the ballista tower ability at Minas Tirith? I built ballista towers there and, in hindsight, made the unwise decision to trust two units being left at the walls. The ballista towers didn't shoot a single Orc. I ended up sacrificing those two units for nothing. Mind you, they were off to the side, not near the main gatehouse, but I remember long ago that ALL towers in the lower level of the White City used to have the ballista function.

I would like to see that restored, and also while we're at it, "I will see the Kingdom of Gondor restored" as Boromir says.

Are you me? Literally doing the same. I have also learned of the HURB mod for Stainless Steel.

MOS does have its place among the TATW submods. What impressed me the most were the scrips that spawned temporary armies - like that one case where I had a mini-campaign with such a stack as Lórien helping the Rohirrim. And the High Elves have a script that decreases their population until the player proves to them there is a fate for them in Middle Earth. Add to that the ability to resurrect your allied factions - something only extensive scripts can provide, and MOS employs plenty.

How are we so sure that we're not twins separated at birth? Also, yes, MOS does have impressive scripting, although I still can't get the Corsair Invasions to work. EBII is another mod that has lots of scripting for stuff like revival of factions, albeit through rebellion and not alliances.

[Veteraan]

We certainly didn't remove the Ballista tower ability at Minas Tirith when we worked on MOS 1.7. I might not have done any coding, but I got to see every new or changed file, as I implemented them all to the development builds and ultimately the final MOS 1.7 release file.
The non shooting towers have been there for a long time. Not sure if that was intended. You could check in TATW 3.2 itself. Maybe it got removed there, on purpose or by accident.

[MIKE GOLF]

If there is an issue with MT it may well have to do more with the layout of the custom settlement then whether or not it has towers. In some mods the towers are no longer buildable BUT ballistas are included in the wall defences and can be quite deadly.

[♔atthias♔]

the ship units card for lorien are just RTW peasant icons

just in case you are going to release a patch someday for the wolves/ents/spiders crashes can you include this?

I think I can fix them for you if needed

[Roma_Victrix]

We certainly didn't remove the Ballista tower ability at Minas Tirith when we worked on MOS 1.7. I might not have done any coding, but I got to see every new or changed file, as I implemented them all to the development builds and ultimately the final MOS 1.7 release file.
The non shooting towers have been there for a long time. Not sure if that was intended. You could check in TATW 3.2 itself. Maybe it got removed there, on purpose or by accident.

Update on that: I've played several sieges since then and have confirmed that the towers of the gatehouse work as intended and shoot ballista bolts at the enemy. It appears to be that only the towers on the far left and immediate right of the walls of Minas Tirith do not work. So long as the gatehouse is working I suppose things are fine. I've become content with it seeing how it's one of the easiest settlements to defend anyway.