MOS, the ultimate TATW experience.

[Roma_Victrix]

That is not a surprise. It has been so for years that some people have crashes with Wolves and Ents and Spiders and generally all elephant based units. Sauron, Balrogs and Mumakil seem to crash a lot less though. A lot of players never encounter this problem though. Even stranger, I myself have had this problem for years, upgraded my PC with a lot of new hardware and suddenly could play without crashes. However, very annoyingly, the crashes returned after a few months, I have no idea why.

Three years ago I made a thread about this very problem which by now has a lot of posts. At the end of it a sort of solution is mentioned that seems to work in a few mods. You can find the thread HERE.
We have done a few attempts to implement this solution in DCI:LA but have not yet been successful. It has to be said that while some people have provided some info (which is in the thread I linked to), the instructions are not that clear/easy.

From what I understand, it has everything to do with RAM, virtual memory, and the capability of one's graphics card. For instance, I have a pretty crappy computer for gaming, an HP Pavilion Notebook 15 laptop with a built-in "family graphics card", although I do have 6 GB of RAM. I am also capable of increasing RAM for M2TW. However, every time I play a Third Age battle with spiders or ents in particular, I have to quicksave and then turn my texture settings down from high all the way to low! Along with other settings from high or medium down to low, just to play the battle without it crashing. Afterwards I crank the settings back up to where they were before. I have played Osgiliath sieges many times before, but it is almost a guaranteed CTD if spiders are involved there, which sucks because it is sometimes a target for Sauron's crusades/jihads.

[alreadyded]

If turning texture quality down resolves your issue then it probably has to do with all those units using 'LOD 10000' in the modelsdb. All my units use it too. People with good PCs don't want to see crappy 2d art at a distance due to using multiple lower LOD distances. There are free programs that make various LODs at the click of a button, then just copy/paste code from a M2TW unit that is set up to use them and that may fix it.

If you don't turn the quality down does it crash when the battle is still loading? If so that is a completely different bug than crashing after the start of the battle.

[Roma_Victrix]

If turning texture quality down resolves your issue then it probably has to do with all those units using 'LOD 10000' in the modelsdb. All my units use it too. People with good PCs don't want to see crappy 2d art at a distance due to using multiple lower LOD distances. There are free programs that make various LODs at the click of a button, then just copy/paste code from a M2TW unit that is set up to use them and that may fix it.

If you don't turn the quality down does it crash when the battle is still loading? If so that is a completely different bug than crashing after the start of the battle.

No, from what I remember it always crashes during a battle with ents and spiders, not while it is still loading. I guess I could try your suggested solution then. I hope it somehow works!

[Veteraan]

From what I understand, it has everything to do with RAM, virtual memory, and the capability of one's graphics card. For instance, I have a pretty crappy computer for gaming, an HP Pavilion Notebook 15 laptop with a built-in "family graphics card", although I do have 6 GB of RAM. I am also capable of increasing RAM for M2TW. However, every time I play a Third Age battle with spiders or ents in particular, I have to quicksave and then turn my texture settings down from high all the way to low! Along with other settings from high or medium down to low, just to play the battle without it crashing. Afterwards I crank the settings back up to where they were before. I have played Osgiliath sieges many times before, but it is almost a guaranteed CTD if spiders are involved there, which sucks because it is sometimes a target for Sauron's crusades/jihads.

Don't think so. I am confronted with crashes with Ents, Spiders and Wolves again, after I could play most battles with them for a few months after upgrading my PC. Something seems to have changed since then, but I have no idea what it may be. My previous hardware configuration was not at all bad also and way more advanced than anything existing at the time MTW2 Kingdoms was released.

It is really no wonder that you have to turn your settings down when you have integrated graphics, especially the Intel flavour. As for expanding memory, regardless of how it's done, it can (not saying it will for everybody) cause problems like access violations.

Anyway, I have a desktop with a Ryzen 2600 cpu, 16 GB of 3200Mhz ram, a GTX 960 (which I will probably upgrade later this year) and a Crucial MX500 500 GB SSD on which I have installend MTW2 Kingdoms and some mods. Many people have a decent to excellent gaming PC, but still report crashes with Ents, Spiders, Wolves and sometimes other elephant based units.

This is not a problem that is MOS specific by the way. It is better to discuss it in the thread I linked to than here.

[vaivere]

Hi ! First of all sorry for my bad english!
I have reinstaled MOS after some years, i used to enjoy it a lot, but now i installed it and when i start a campaing everything goes normal, with the moddified map and else stuff, but it doesnt loads any script. I rembeber that when i started a campaing i had a lot of scripts selectios and other stuffs, what can being wrong?

I have tried everything to make the mod work well but i still having this problem, is there any way to execute the scripts using console comands?

[♔atthias♔]

I have tried everything to make the mod work well but i still having this problem, is there any way to execute the scripts using console comands?

re download MOS without doing anything else but downloading MOS on your PC

then install it using the new download

[Lieutenant Sharpe]

Veteraan, thanks for the links. So far I haven’t crashed or froze which is awesome!



Also, I’ve got a couple questions. Firstly, Eriador has gotten into wars with a bunch of good factions and it is too late for me to use allied allies. Is there anyway for me to stop the senseless violence?

Secondly, the good factions seem to be pretty powerful even though I gave the evil factions all their bonus scripts. The orcs of the misty mountains are dead and the dwarves, high elves, and Dale are spreading like weeds. Plus Rohan is doing so well it has a stronger army than mine (Gondor). What happened? Is there any way to increase the struggle for the good factions across middle earth?

[Tusk]

Hi

Just started a new MOS campaign with Eriador. I am really enjoying it but the battle dynamics are quite different. Hobbits, archers and spear militia all seem very week and take a long time to kill anything. But the rebel enemies are also quite weak so not having too much trouble. The dunedain rangers are great but I assume people would recommend using them as a flanking force once out of arrows as opposed to running them straight in. I dont really want to send them back from the front for retaining all the time.

The cavalry generals are incredibly strong for only 30 or so men but using them as a hammer is working well since they retrain on their own. Where on normal third age i would have wiped out units with archers, this time i am using the generals more, since archers take so long to kill.

The Dunedain swordsmen are great at cutting through enemies but i dont want to over use them as i can not be bothered sending them all the way back from the front line to get up to force. The Hobbits seem very weak but they are doing a job and will fade away as i keep merging their units after battles. Do you know when the small Elvish archer units start to appear?

As it stands I have the a couple rebel settlements in the south to take from rebels. Then one in the top right hand corner but its already been taken by grundabad, which i might leave until i have the kings hall thing building. I am at 2,500 people in Annuminas and growing at 4% so it might be a while. What is the biggest growth rate people can achieve in a settlement? At 4% growth i calculate it will take around 55 turns until i get the city big enough. Do you guys all recommend focusing on farms to get population growth and money in the first instance. Further trying to keep taxes low to get growth up.

I am trying to get alliances with all the good factions so i can recreate the LOTR book. I have the force diplomacy mod on so i can make sure everyone plays by my rules. It means i will likely get dragged into wars with other factions earlier but i think we need to take this war of the ring seriously as the stakes are too high to not give it everything to save the world for the impending doom.

Anyway, thanks for making the mod and if anyone could offer some pointers it would be most welcome.

[Ngugi]

The dunedain rangers are great but I assume people would recommend using them as a flanking force once out of arrows as opposed to running them straight in. I dont really want to send them back from the front for retaining all the time.

That's a conventional wisdom, aye.
Whever possible, use common units as anvils and rare ones as hammers, or for flanking manouvers, or as back up for dire moments.

What is the biggest growth rate people can achieve in a settlement? At 4% growth i calculate it will take around 55 turns until i get the city big enough. Do you guys all recommend focusing on farms to get population growth and money in the first instance. Further trying to keep taxes low to get growth up.

Think best I've everseen been 4-5, but anything above 2% is as a rule really good.
Farms for growth is a good investment, note though that the Helat-bonus that some buildings gives do not affect pop' growth. Low tax is my default recommendation as it pays of in the mid to long run: not only do you get more tax payers faster, it also allows you upgrading of settlements sooner.

I am trying to get alliances with all the good factions so i can recreate the LOTR book. I have the force diplomacy mod on so i can make sure everyone plays by my rules. It means i will likely get dragged into wars with other factions earlier but i think we need to take this war of the ring seriously as the stakes are too high to not give it everything to save the world for the impending doom.

Sounds about right, after all:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Just a general tip is to work towards the reforging of Arnor; the units then made avilable will prove quite necessary in the war against late-game Isebgard and Mordor (as in, you can manage without them, but it will be very costly battles).

[Veteraan]

Good to hear you like it so far.

The MOS team is not really active anymore, although I still keep an eye on the thread and host the files. MIKE GOLF is working on a big update of the Reunited Kingdoms mod for MOS though, so there might be an exciting submod for MOS to play with somewhere in the future.

Looks like you are doing just fine, so I don't have much to add here. Having a decent economy is an important factor in playing a successful campaign indeed.

[Frotzy]

Hi

Just started a new MOS campaign with Eriador. I am really enjoying it but the battle dynamics are quite different. Hobbits, archers and spear militia all seem very week and take a long time to kill anything. But the rebel enemies are also quite weak so not having too much trouble. The dunedain rangers are great but I assume people would recommend using them as a flanking force once out of arrows as opposed to running them straight in. I dont really want to send them back from the front for retaining all the time.

The cavalry generals are incredibly strong for only 30 or so men but using them as a hammer is working well since they retrain on their own. Where on normal third age i would have wiped out units with archers, this time i am using the generals more, since archers take so long to kill.

The Dunedain swordsmen are great at cutting through enemies but i dont want to over use them as i can not be bothered sending them all the way back from the front line to get up to force. The Hobbits seem very weak but they are doing a job and will fade away as i keep merging their units after battles. Do you know when the small Elvish archer units start to appear?

As it stands I have the a couple rebel settlements in the south to take from rebels. Then one in the top right hand corner but its already been taken by grundabad, which i might leave until i have the kings hall thing building. I am at 2,500 people in Annuminas and growing at 4% so it might be a while. What is the biggest growth rate people can achieve in a settlement? At 4% growth i calculate it will take around 55 turns until i get the city big enough. Do you guys all recommend focusing on farms to get population growth and money in the first instance. Further trying to keep taxes low to get growth up.

I am trying to get alliances with all the good factions so i can recreate the LOTR book. I have the force diplomacy mod on so i can make sure everyone plays by my rules. It means i will likely get dragged into wars with other factions earlier but i think we need to take this war of the ring seriously as the stakes are too high to not give it everything to save the world for the impending doom.

Anyway, thanks for making the mod and if anyone could offer some pointers it would be most welcome.

Hey dude, I play quite a bit of Eriador/Arnor myself, and honestly they're quite weak early game; however, late game, arguably one of the best factions. They get strong, solid infantry, good archers, good cavarly, good selection of artillery, and super strong general bodyguards. As for early game, usually I rush rebels, try to make a frontline against Dunland with Tharbad, Celoniach and Suduri. Gives you three or so main chokepoints. For the north, usually I try to grab as much as I can, but you don't want to over extend either. I'd say keep it peaceful with Orcs of the Misty Mountains, because a two front war is problematic and a three front war.. well, not a good idea.
In general, I try to keep it peaceful with Dunland until you can crush them with your late game units, but you do you; but if you do take them on early game, Isengard can be quite the threat once Dunland is finished.

In terms of units, archers and generals are key. If you have no problem cheesing the game, the generals bodyguards can get you about 800-1500 kills (if you cycle charge weak units such as snaga, orc spearband, orc raiders, etc), but otherwise keeping your distance, skirmishing and trying to do as much damage as possible with out your infantry engaging seems to be the best choice.

As for Annunimas, usually if you rush to Arnor, about turn 80-90 is the usual time it takes me to reforge Arnor. Sadly, you'll be stuck with the quite infantry and milita archers for a while.. but once you do get the Arnorian units.. man, it is so satisfying to crush your enemies with your Numenorean superiority.
Hope that helps abit

[Tusk]

Thanks guys for the very helpful comments.

So, you know how you mentioned avoiding a war on three fronts. Well... I seem to be in a pickle. The OOTMM are at wear with me but we have not actually had a fight yet. I am trying to leave them alone. I might try for peace, but I don't want to let the other 'good factions' down.

Couple questions, I have a quest for strider to find Gollum beside rivendel. I had him wander about there for a bit and run away from some trolls. Is this enough to trigger then next event or do I need to find a little Gollum under a rock?

Also I think I read somewhere you can force diplomacy. Do you know how this is done? I want to make sure good Vs good doesn't happen until mordor is finished.

Finally the music is not the music of the film. When I played third age a few years ago it was the film score. Have i corrupt file or is MOS different?

[Frotzy]

My bad, I didn't see your reply.
You should definitely sue for peace, and if you want to keep up with your roleplay, you're still quite weak but still facing off 2 other evil factions; doubt any other good factions would mind. For Gollum you just need to go to the region that Cameth Brin is in (I believe), to force diplomacy you engage diplomatic talk with another faction, hit the questionmark in the top right corner and then click the "show me how". The other faction will now accept any offer.
The music stuff I am clueless about, i'm just a player; i'm not really well set into the modding scene per se, but other people are

[Veteraan]

For forced diplomacy there is one thing to add to frotxy's instructions. The other faction will accept anything, but you have to offer it something in return to make it work.

As for the music in MOS, it's not something I was involved with. However, if you can hear it just fine, it is very unlikely to be a corrupt download.

[Roma_Victrix]

Does anyone here know the artist, album, and real song title for the Dwarven battle map marching track entitled "zwerge_marschieren1.mp3"? It's really cool and I'd like to be able to find it online. I've listened to some Morgan Casey stuff shared with Rhovanion Alliance and I'm convinced it is not the same artist who made this song. I'd like to find out who it was!

The song is located in the data/sounds/music/dwarves/battle folder. It's the song that goes as follows:

NEH, NEH, NEH, NEH, NEH!
(buh-buh-buh-buh-buh, bum-BUM)

NEH, NEH, NEH, NEH, NEH!
(buh-buh-buh-buh-buh, BUM-bum)

NEH, NEH, NEH, NEH, NEH!
(buh-buh-buh-buh-buh, bum-BUM)

NEH, NEH, NEH, NEH, NEH!
(buh-buh-buh-buh-buh, BUM-bum)

Neh-neh-neh-neh-neh, neh-neh-neh-neh-neh, bum-bum, BAAAAAAAA!
Neh-neh-neh-neh-neh, neh-neh-neh-neh-neh, bum-bum, BAAAAAHHH!

Neh-neh-neh-neh-neh, neh-neh-neh-neh-neh, NAH-NAH!
Neh-neh-neh-neh-neh, neh-neh-neh-neh-neh,

DOO-DOO-DOO, dee dah doo.
DOO-DOO-DOO. Dee doo day.
DOO-DEE-DAH! DEE DOO DAY! DEE DOO DAH. DEE DOO DAY!
DEE DOO DAH! DEE DOO DAY! DEE DOO DAH! DEE DOO DAY, DEE DAH!

NEH, NEH, NEH, NEH, NEH! NEH, NEH, NEH, NEH, NEH!
BUM, BUM!
NEH, NEH, NEH, NEH, NEH! NEH, NEH, NEH, NEH, NEH!
BUM! BUM!
NEH, NEH, NEH, NEH, NEH! NEH, NEH, NEH, NEH, NEH!
BUM! BUM!
NEH, NEH, NEH, NEH, NEH! NEH, NEH, NEH, NEH, NEH!
BUM! BUM! BUM!!!

Yeah. That's my jam. You know the one I'm talking about.

[Ngugi]

Listening to a LegendofTotalWar-video*, if it's this song I think its a M2 Kingdoms original, possibly specificly from the Teutonic campaign. Worth checking out.

* https://youtu.be/tAgboj_l354?t=3288

[Roma_Victrix]

Actually, in another thread, Araval, that beautiful golden boy genius, shared most generously the true source of the song in question, "Pushing Back" on the soundtrack for the game Battle of Middle Earth II, composed by Jamie Christopherson (2006). Excellent stuff!

[Ngugi]

Yup, saw so

[Damianus_NT]

Hi, I have some quick questions in regards to MOS. Nothing of great importance, I'm just curious.

1. Is there a list of all regional ancillaries along with associated traits, for MOS? It would be very handy to know, especially when planning ahead which general should govern which province.
It should look something like this:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

2. Some list presenting a full unit roster would be even more useful. I made some incomplete list in excel, but it is quite time consuming to do it for every faction.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

3. While writing down stats from export_descr_unit file, I've noticed some anomalies. For example, the Lindon Longspears unit does not have neither: light_spear, spear or long_pike attribute. Is has: ap, spear_bonus_6 instead and its weapon is set as axe. I guess this a deliberate decision? Does that mean that Lindon Longspears won't receive the bracing bonus (given to spears and light_spears) or bonuses normally given to long_pike users?

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[MIKE GOLF]

Hi, I have some quick questions in regards to MOS. Nothing of great importance, I'm just curious.

1. Is there a list of all regional ancillaries along with associated traits, for MOS? It would be very handy to know, especially when planning ahead which general should govern which province.
It should look something like this:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

2. Some list presenting a full unit roster would be even more useful. I made some incomplete list in excel, but it is quite time consuming to do it for every faction.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

3. While writing down stats from export_descr_unit file, I've noticed some anomalies. For example, the Lindon Longspears unit does not have neither: light_spear, spear or long_pike attribute. Is has: ap, spear_bonus_6 instead and its weapon is set as axe. I guess this a deliberate decision? Does that mean that Lindon Longspears won't receive the bracing bonus (given to spears and light_spears) or bonuses normally given to long_pike users?

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

In the mods/Third_Age_3 folder there is a word file entitled; MOS Fiefdoms, this is a list of all the different fiefdoms for each faction and what settlement a character needs to be in in order to obtain a fiefdom. If you wish to change any of the ancillaries look in the eda (export_descr_ancillaries), all the fiefdom ancillaries are all lower case while the associated traits use caps, see the edct (export_descr_traits). Ex. Anc: lord_straits_rk, trait: Lord_Straits_RK.

There was a list at one time, however with units changing with every release like a woman changes clothes, the list, an excel file as well, quickly fell by the wayside.

I cannot answer your third point.