Dwarf's Zhufbar and Altdorf ITSELF have the exact same city layout (

[Fallen851]

What? Let what slide? A decision that might god forbid improve sieges that I'm open-minded about? Are you one of the Anything new=bad crowd? Have you played the game or been part of the development process to come to this decision? Or are you just making concrete decisions because otherwise that might make you think things through and consider other possibilities?



I guess I lack the skill of overreacting to two settlements having the same basic plan compared to others. Not a skill I find to be enviable. Time for a wrong sandals thread!

Down with reason and rationality! Boooo!!! You're with us or a CA apologist!! Trump 2016!!!

So you're on the record here for saying all this.

I almost want to go back and see what you thought of people like me criticizing Rome 2 before release. You'd probably say we were jumping the gun, ect...

Well who got burned? I sure didn't cause I didn't purchase it. We'll see who gets burned this time. You'll be the first person I PM when the game comes out, either apologizing to you, or mocking you.

[axicup]

I almost want to go back and see what you thought of people like me criticizing Rome 2 before release. You'd probably say we were jumping the gun, ect...

Well who got burned? I sure didn't cause I didn't purchase it. We'll see who gets burned this time. You'll be the first person I PM when the game comes out, either apologizing to you, or mocking you.

Is this a getting burned contest? I think what we all want here is a fun video game, after all. Right? Or am I wrong and some people just like to aimlessly pour their bile on everything?

[Osbot]

Is this a getting burned contest? I think what we all want here is a fun video game, after all. Right? Or am I wrong and some people just like to aimlessly pour their bile on everything?

This is a "Look how smart I am, I told you so, I'm a special flower" contest.

[CK23]

Every city in Rome and Atilla had the same layout, short of special cities, lemme rage about that. Brb.

[KAM 2150]

Yes, Roman, Greek, Easten and Barbarian cities were exactly same looking in Rome 2 and there was no difference between small and major city? : P Or we played two different games?

[Abdülmecid I]

Yes, Roman, Greek, Easten and Barbarian cities were exactly same looking in Rome 2 and there was no difference between small and major city? : P Or we played two different games?

I think that the essence of the problem is that many had their expectations way too high, due to Will's controversial statement, just after the game was announced. However, I'm also not sure if the cities had different layouts in R1 and M2, depending on each culture. Even if they had any differences, they'd be really small ones, since at least me, I can't remember anything specific. Always the government building for example was just next to the central square. The only exception I can think of was between the barbarian towns and the rest of the settlements in Rome I. Every Eastern, Roman or Greek town was as flat as it gets, but the barbarian villages had a large hill, in their center, upon which the central square was located, which affected the town's layout.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Probably an effort from CA to simulate the hill forts of ancient Europe.

[petertel123]

Oh so it's a case of interpretation. Okay then. So how does having the basic layouts of two settlements run contrary to it being deeply developed? How does it make the game worse? Are the buildings in the same position, are they just reskined, are the streets the same width apart? Doesn't look like it. Without the minimap I sincerely doubt anyone would have noticed. Really, so what if two settlements have the same outline? As long as there are enough variations and the maps give plenty of room to fight a decent battle.

If there were plenty of variations they woudnt have used the same one for 2 of their previews. So you tell me, how does fighting the same battle a thousand times hurt gameplay?

[Col. Tartleton]

I had a lengthy rant with pictures explaining how Altdorf should be based on Duisburg in Germany and use a map similar to Rome in Rome 2 but my internet bugged out.

[PeonKing]

So you're on the record here for saying all this.

I almost want to go back and see what you thought of people like me criticizing Rome 2 before release. You'd probably say we were jumping the gun, ect...

Well who got burned? I sure didn't cause I didn't purchase it. We'll see who gets burned this time. You'll be the first person I PM when the game comes out, either apologizing to you, or mocking you.

You're taking this really seriously. I don't really understand how you consider not buying a video game something to be proud of. You saw a game you thought wasn't going to be up to your standards, and didn't purchase it, that's being an average consumer. I still sunk 320 hours into Rome 2, it had a lot of issues, but it was fun. That's more than I could sink into a lot of critically acclaimed games, simply because the replayability of total war is so high. They made a lot of mistakes, a lot of stuff was wonky, but you're sitting there like you just exposed some corrupt politician or something. Make sure you keep him 'on the record' when you take him to court for thinking CA is actually trying different things to try to improve issues that have been plaguing their last two titles.

Honestly I don't think its hard to see what they're trying to do, they're trying to make their sieges easier to conduct so the AI does a better job. That has a lot of cons, but if it works out, it could be very worth it if the AI manages to actually be a threat to fortified settlements. The sieges in Shogun 2 could actually be a problem because they AI could literally attack you from every angle. I mean, they were still pretty easy to defend against, but you could actually be overwhelmed with numbers. They tried to make them more authentic in R2 and Attila, and it didn't work out so hot, the AI simply didn't seem to be capable of setting up efficient 'stages' of a siege. They didn't bring enough to take your walls down 90% of the time, and even if they did, they were bad at defending their siege equipment anyway. From how it looks, they are combining the simplicity of the Shogun 2 sieges (allowing ladders to be used without needing actual siege equipment, combined with simple castle designs so that the AI can use some pretty basic efficient strategies) with the actual siege equipment of R2/Attila.

Now I'm not saying it's going to work, it could flop. The AI may still not put up a good fight, and then you're stuck with a crap AI and a repetitive city layout. I do think it's obvious they're trying to use a different design approach, they're being more conservative with city complexity and actually realize their AI is a weakness. It's not hard to design a complex city, I'm sure plenty of us have a good enough imagination to make big crazy fortresses, but it is hard to get the AI to be smart enough to give the player a run for their money in it. When we see an AI controlled assault, that's when we are going to see how well this works out. Obviously these player assaults are a little unrealistic, I mean, attacking a level IV settlement with an evenly powered army garrisoned inside it is suicide, especially when the towers shoot explosives, and the other one they were attacking settlements with less than full stacks of tier 1 units.

[Markas]

So you're on the record here for saying all this.

What do you mean on the record? It's an interent forum it isn't going to disappear unless the server s up again.

I almost want to go back and see what you thought of people like me criticizing Rome 2 before release. You'd probably say we were jumping the gun, ect...

Don't let me stop you. It might be cathartic. You appear to need it.

Well who got burned? I sure didn't cause I didn't purchase it. We'll see who gets burned this time. You'll be the first person I PM when the game comes out, either apologizing to you, or mocking you.

Wow. You're taking these video games a little seriously son, games that apparently you don't buy anyway? Makes me curious as to why you are so interested in the thickness of spears etc in them but we'll leave that for now. Let's put it this way- if I had Attila, I might think it's a good game. Would you PM me and tell me it's terrible and you were right, even if I disagreed? Where would that get us?

In life, some people have different opinions and different likes to others. I'm sorry some random guy on the internet has to tell you this edifying and universal truth. I will make you this promise, though- if Warhammer total war is as bloated and boring as Rome 2 I'll admit it. It won't be hard, was this is my much-stated opinion on the game anyway.

Also, please knock it off with the CA apologist accusations. That's like three times now and it's getting stale now. I'm sure you are capable of rational discourse without ad hominem.

[Tankbustaz]

I had a lengthy rant with pictures explaining how Altdorf should be based on Duisburg in Germany and use a map similar to Rome in Rome 2 but my internet bugged out.

I like to think you were being sarcastic.

[Markas]

Dem old maps tho-

[Col. Tartleton]

I was saying the way the Rhine and Ruhr meet at Duisburg to form the world's largest river port is quite similar to the way that the Reik and Talabec rivers meet at Altdorf to form the Old World's largest river port and the home of the Imperial navy.

Unfortunately they can't be bothered to depict the city on the three sides of the confluence. I can't wait to attack Marienburg when its a clone of the city they showed as Altdorf...

[Taskeen]

Listen here, Rome 1 had exceptionally annoying sieges to play through. Just go back and play them. Between the machinegun towers, skyscrapers and unroutable units, the sieges were always the weak point of the game.



Because maybe, just maybe with all the new they have added to the games, perhaps people don't just sperg over one wall.

Rome 1 had some of the best sieges I've ever had the pleasure of playing in a TW game. I've played it recently as I am one to do every so often for my favorite TW game ever, so those that continue to say the Siege AI was bad or annoying to me seems like they there is some fiction being peddled. I would advise you, to perhaps you playing them? Hell, I play Rome 1 vanilla sometimes with no mods and I find that fun too.

TWC Siege AI - example showing AI attacking multiple points on wall in order to spread player thin, with more historicity built in - I've had Rome 1 games where my entire cities were attacked from all sides and losing epic battles (Siege Equipment can be destroyed forcing AI to retreat, but the AI can continue a Siege and build more to keep the pressure on). It's way more hectic in late game with huge cities, sappers, towers, and ladders.

Also I've played Heroes 3.. Alot. What? Where do you people even come up with these analogies?

Skyrim looks like a prettified version of Baldur's Gate. there, I said it. Deal with it fanboys.

One-sided wall attack? Whoa!



But... what's this, TW Warhammer... one-sided wall attack! It can't be!



It's almost if... there is a analogy there, whoa. Far out man.

Granted it is a siege against a DWARF city - in a mountain. Other sieges could be 4-sided, who knows.

[Antedios]

I was saying the way the Rhine and Ruhr meet at Duisburg to form the world's largest river port is quite similar to the way that the Reik and Talabec rivers meet at Altdorf to form the Old World's largest river port and the home of the Imperial navy.

It's not only that. If you compare a map of the Old World and Germany, you will see more matches: Altdorf = Duisburg, Nuln = Koblenz, Kemperbad is Niederkassel + Bonn (geographical), referenced to the location of the Godesburg + Drachenfels in Bonn (two hills, one on each side of the river. Both with a castle. Just compare that to Kemperbad with cliffs on both sides of the river and a fortified town/castle at each side).

[Captain Melon]

I expected them to look at and consider the large amount of material avaliable on city layouts and descriptions from WFRP and other sources. Here is a link to many imperial city layouts for instance: http://gitzmansgallery.com/warhammer-maps.html

The Altdorf in the video did not even have the river Reik.

[Bust Nak]

I prefer fewer well designed maps than many less well designed maps.

[Påsan]

It's almost if... there is a analogy there, whoa. Far out man.

Vampire counts vs Empire.

Here's the same damn thing. Damn you CA!

I liked my own comparison better. Adding just the mini map is just misrepresenting the information.

[badbomb]

Rome 1 had some of the best sieges I've ever had the pleasure of playing in a TW game. I've played it recently as I am one to do every so often for my favorite TW game ever, so those that continue to say the Siege AI was bad or annoying to me seems like they there is some fiction being peddled. I would advise you, to perhaps you playing them? Hell, I play Rome 1 vanilla sometimes with no mods and I find that fun too.

TWC Siege AI - example showing AI attacking multiple points on wall in order to spread player thin, with more historicity built in - I've had Rome 1 games where my entire cities were attacked from all sides and losing epic battles (Siege Equipment can be destroyed forcing AI to retreat, but the AI can continue a Siege and build more to keep the pressure on). It's way more hectic in late game with huge cities, sappers, towers, and ladders.

1 your clearly talking about modded games with your first point sometimes means you almost never do.

2 regarding that guys poor attempt at showing how "much better" the Ai is. the rome 1 part, the attacking Ai still all attacked the same side just slightly apart, which you can only have 1 siege equipment per wall segment so thats probably the minimum distance... that doesn't stretch anything out since they are all going to corral into the same pathways to the town center, which he says in the second half is unrealistic just completely ignoring that rome 1 has capture points too. Actually the rome 2 naval only attack would spread out the player much more than the one sided attack the first segment shows, that is if he decided to do anything except complain about ships landing only having set amounts of space.

[Derpy Hooves]

Every city in Rome and Atilla had the same layout, short of special cities, lemme rage about that. Brb.

Attila had roughly 31 city variations, quote from another site

2 unique basic villages, a variant with port, a variant with a river and a walled version of those basic/port/river settlements, then a regular city, a port city, and a river city, so that makes it what 9 types of settlements per culture (rome, eastern/desert, barbar) for a total of 27 settlement types. plus Ravenna, Rome, Ctesiphon and Constantinople that makes it 31