How do Tercio compare with Noble Scot/Aventuros?

[Insertion]

Anyone done any testing or have any experience regarding how these units stack up against one another?

[Veritas]

Tercio and Noble Scot are good, Aventuros are better - probably the best pike in game if you like to fight with pikes.

Don't quote me on this, but I believe the Aventuros are pretty expensive though. They may not be any more so than Tercio or Scots, not sure actually.

[Maslow]

Tercio Pikemen are, performance wise, in league with swiss pikemen. They are professional troops with high morale and good stats, but not elite like Aventuros.

This is also traduced in their price, you can recruit two tercios for the price of one Aventuro.

[Veritas]

Very true, they are expensive. I guess it all depends on if you are cheating for money or not. If you are than the Aventuros are awesome, if you aren't then they are expensive in which case others may be better since greater numbers are an advantage.

[Darsh]

Suiss pikemen and Flamish pikemen are also excellent for their prices.

[Veritas]

How do you get Swiss Pikemen? I played for a while as the French and never found them... Of course I only kept southern France and the rest of my lands were around Jerusalem. Is it that they are only recruitable in the Switzerland region?

[warblah]

they are in southern france and italy. Recruiting price is cheap but upkeep is not.

They look like militia pikemen......I want my SAP

[PompeusMagnus]

I use many times Portugal and in my campaigns i use Aventuros a lot but they are expensive so I use Swiss, Flemish our Landschencht Pikeman to fill the ranks, since i can't recruit Aventuros in every region... But in Multiplayer I use allways Aventuros who until know allways managed to defeat Tercio Pikeman, but since upgrades, high ground and morale effect these things it's not certain that Aventuros are allways usefull for the money you spend with them...

[wowbanger]

In a straight up fight Tercio will lose to both Noble Scots and Aventuros because they lack the heavy armour of those two. However, Tercio do provide the best value for money of any professional pikemen imo.

I did some tests on pikes in 1vs1 fight to see which were best a few months back. Aventuros came out top, followed by Scots Nobles, Swiss, Tercios/ Landschenchts (tied), and I can't remember the rest but the French Pikemen, Flemish and Highlanders were all fairly even and Militia Pikes came bottom, but are still great value for money (only 150 to recruit and free upkeep in cities).

[PrestigeX]

The Aventuros are the best pike unit for stats plain and simple -- best morale, and best secondary attack... two points higher than noble pikemen sword. However, I think that both the Noble and Aventuro pikemen are too expensive for me to use -- i'm just too concerned with their well being lol, don't want any to die, not to mention retraining is a pain in the "lower area"... Hmm, and why does Portugal have the best Pike unit ? kinda seems like a sloppy decision, especially when Swiss pikes don't even get armor or anything as they SHOULD!

However, I still think the best pike unit in the game has to be the Heavy Pike Militia -- reason being is that they come heavily armored, and are capable in the melee with their swords and their armor, and only cost like 400 bucks, plus you don't have to worry about building armorers or any of that -- a lot of the time you conquer new territories and find they've build everything but not even a leather tanner! grrrr lol.

otherwise, i'd say the French Pikemen -- just terrible, it's better to use the pike milita because they're more plentiful and only 150 florins.

Tercios are the best unit of professional pikemen because they're as good as Landsknets and can upgrade their armor.

[shikaka]

I think I vote for Tercio from the 3, as I remember they are the cheapest.
The way I use pikes (always behind sword/axe infantry) only their range of attack matters and maybe their attack, defense armor can be ignored.

My favourite units are: flemish pikes,landsknecht, highland pikes and all militia variants.

[Blaze of Macedon]

I never really understood myself why Portugal gets the best pikemen

Historically i'd say it had to be the Swiss, then a big gap, then probably the Tercios and Landsknecht.

Anyway in game i never played as Spain or Portugal so i can't say. In general the late tech units get rarely used by me since, as someone pointed out, i'm to concerned about their well being and by the time i get access to them i have a bunch of experienced early era troops that perform great.

I've tried Aventuros, Tercios and Landsknecht in MP multiple times and they do rock if put to the right use, with a 15k battle you can take them and build a great army around them, with 10k it's a bit more tricky.

[Blaze of Macedon]

I think Tercios and Landsknecht cost the same (logically since they do have the same stats too).

And i either put them on the flans or "mix em up" overlaping with a line of muskets or another unit of heavier infantry.

[... where did it run?]

Aventuros are better. If you are looking cost wise.. always pay more attention to upkeep than training cost. Unless you are talking about multiplayer battles. Then it's all the other story.

[shikaka]

Aventuros are better.

If you want to use them in the first row. Otherwise (if they are shielded by a heavy infantry) they are just some coins thrown out of the window with retrain difficulties abroad.
I would take highland pikes any day!

[... where did it run?]

If you want to use them in the first row. Otherwise (if they are shielded by a heavy infantry) they are just some coins thrown out of the window with retrain difficulties abroad.
I would take highland pikes any day!

Yea, but. Those unarmored pikes tends to die to peasant archers. And that was always bugging me. Also, two tercios > one aventuros. But you can only put up to 20 units in your stack.

[shikaka]

Yea, but. Those unarmored pikes tends to die to peasant archers.

Well, AI archers usually fall fast (right after AI cavalry) in my games, so that's not a problem.
From the front they are shielded by non-pike infantry so they are safe most of the time.

[KnightOfPortugal]

Aventuros perform better than the Noble Pikes and the Tercio Pikes. Yet Tercio Pikes are more cost-effective, and if your budget is rather tight, Tercios are a better choice. They are even cheaper than Armoured Sergeants. Noble Pikes make good defensive infantry, well-armoured against arrows, but not as good as the Aventuros.


Here the unit costs (from m2tw warlore):

Aventuros:
Training: 610
Upkeep: 185


Noble Pikemen:
Training: 570
Upkeep: 215

Tercios:
Training: 350
Upkeep: 155


So Aventuros seem more efficient than Noble Pikes. Training cost and upkeep for the first turn you use it accumulates to 795 and 785 for Aventuros and Noble Pikes respectively. After the next turn, the total sum spent on those units are 980 (Aventuros) and 1000 (Noble Pikes). This makes Aventuros more efficient than Noble Pikes.
But at that time, the total sum spent on a unit of Tercios would be 505 for the first turn and 660 for the turn thereafter. Tercios, while not performance-wise better than Aventuros, still do their job very good (11 attack and 4 defence are pretty good Pikemen stats) So you could say while Aventuros outperform their Spanish brothers in the field, those Tercios are more efficient and cost-friendly.

The regular Pikemen France has, have the same upkeep cost as the Tercios have, but cost 110 florins less in training. But I don't find those French pikemen that good, actually.

Therefore:

Most effective Pikemen: Aventuros
Most efficient Pikemen: Tercios

((I didn't compare to Merc Pikes because they aren't regular units, and not always available to recruit.))

[EmperorDan]

I subscribe to the view that Tercios can beat the Aventuros by overwhelming them.

[KnightOfPortugal]

Two Tercios cost more than one Aventuros, but can indeed beat that single unit of Aventuros.