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Thread: Tuskmod Realism Branch: Missile Overhaul and Training System Update

  1. #1

    Default Tuskmod Realism Branch: Missile Overhaul and Training System Update

    So the past several days I was tinkering with new ideas and mechanics when it came to missile weapons. I was inspired by the added effects the Slavic DLC brought to Attila so I decided to expand that style of gameplay over most of the missile weapons and types in the game.

    Missile Overhaul:


    1. Broadhead Arrows are the effect given to all normal shot type arrows in the game. It is only a small effect that reduces unit speed by 5% on contact for 15 seconds. This is to simulate men pausing for a moment or taking notice of being under fire from missiles. Normal arrows no longer cause men to tumble or stumble either due to their lighter weight and reduced AP damage.

    2. Early Bodkin Arrows are the effect given to Heavy show ammo. This effect is used to simulate the armor piercing effects of the bodkin arrow beyond base AP damage. Bodkin Arrows will slow a unit by 10% due to wounds and the shock of being hit by the heavier arrows. Charge acceleration has also been slightly slowed and shield defense is reduced due to the damaging effect on the shield. This effect lasts for 20 seconds but it can damage friendly units. Ideally, you will want to fire a volley into the enemy before charging and switch to other targets not near your own men.

    3. Normal Javelins still cause enemies to stumble and fall but also reduce unit speed by 25% and charge speed by 15%. Shield Defense is reduced by 35%. Effect lasts for 15 seconds.

    4. Heavy Javelins and Pila cause enemies to stumble and fall and reduce unit speed by 35% and charge speed by 25%. Shield Defense is reduced by 55%. Effect lasts 20 seconds.

    5. Francisca Throwing Axes historically caused enemies to become frightened due to the volume and ferocious nature of the volley and are now represented similarly in game. They reduce morale by 12 points and lower melee defense, shield defense, and charge bonus for 15 seconds.

    6. Other ammo types such as Fire and Whistling shot have remained the same as I felt their current place in the game balance was fine.

    7. Slings have had slight balance adjustments done to spread and rate of fire.

    General Range and Velocity changes:


    1. Various bow and javelin types as well as shot types have had their ranges and missile velocities changed to more accurate values. Expect to see a wider diversity of ranges among units.

    Unit Fatigue and Training System (Experimental)

    This system was designed to allow further freedom in assigning precise fatigue rates as well as have control over other hidden Attila values. This system allows for fatigue rates to differ between seven types of soldiers and allows for emulation of unit experience and training on a specific unit basis.

    1. Poorly Trained: Used to simulate untrained levy units. These units will fatigue faster than the standard rank and file due to the lack of physical training. Their skill in combat is also reduced.

    2. Minimal Training: Used to simulate garrison or semi-trained levies. These men fatigue slightly slower than normal and have some combat skills.

    3. Standard Training: Used to simulate the standard trained soldier of the time. They fatigue at the standard rate and fight with the skills they have learned.

    4. Advanced Training: Used to simulate men who have trained for specific situations and have slightly more experience than the average soldier. They tire at a slightly slower rate than normal and have better combat skills.

    5. Elite Training: Used to simulate veteran soldiers or elite soldiers. They fatigue slower than normal and fight with much better effectiveness than the rank and file.

    6. Professional Training: Used to simulate the professionally trained men of the day. Fatigue at much slower rates than normal and have honed combat skills.

    3.5 Heavy Armour Training: Used to simulate the heavier armored soldiers of the time. They fatigue faster than normal due to the weight of their Armour but fight just as well as standard and even some advanced soldiers.


    This is a system I am eager to implement in the best ways possible and hope that people enjoy. I will be tweaking and testing further based on any user feedback I get. The names of the training levels are subject to change but for now these will be the placeholder names.

    The update is out now!

    Steam Link: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfile.../?id=591200193

    Last edited by The Gravemind; March 21, 2016 at 09:49 PM.

  2. #2
    Ferdiad's Avatar Patricius
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    Default Re: Tuskmod Realism Branch: Missile Overhaul and Training System Update

    This is save game compatible right?

  3. #3

    Default Re: Tuskmod Realism Branch: Missile Overhaul and Training System Update

    Not sure. You will have to test it to make sure. I didn't alter anything in the campaign.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Tuskmod Realism Branch: Missile Overhaul and Training System Update

    Can I use this with the updates Walrus is putting out? The test builds?
    EDIT:
    Ah, its standalone it seems? Gonna give it a go
    Last edited by Aethyr; March 23, 2016 at 08:41 PM.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Tuskmod Realism Branch: Missile Overhaul and Training System Update

    Other than the small campaign edits Walrus has been coming out with over the last two weeks, the Realism branch has all the content up to date with 1.6 and parts of 1.7.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Tuskmod Realism Branch: Missile Overhaul and Training System Update

    Gave it a run, absolutely love it, felt good to crumble the enemy by slamming their flank with a couple of hidden units. They rallied and came back for more but It was the time I needed to redress my lines and I routed them. The same deal when I slew the enemies general at a crucial choke point, they quickly lost heart and ran back to their filthy barbarian hovels. Thanks for your work.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Tuskmod Realism Branch: Missile Overhaul and Training System Update

    I tried it out for a few battles and found the battle speed might be a bit high? For some reason it feels like the original tuskmod is a bit slower but maybe thats just me. Good mod so far!

    Edit: Oh and i know you are going for realism and I don't know too much about how far slingers can actually throw, but the range in game seems to be too low. By the time you are in range they are too close to enemy units so if they are on skirmish they just turn right away. Its ok for javelins cause of their high damage but this just makes slingers seem like the worst missile type.
    Last edited by johnmck; March 24, 2016 at 04:34 PM.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Tuskmod Realism Branch: Missile Overhaul and Training System Update

    Quote Originally Posted by johnmck View Post
    I tried it out for a few battles and found the battle speed might be a bit high? For some reason it feels like the original tuskmod is a bit slower but maybe thats just me. Good mod so far!

    Edit: Oh and i know you are going for realism and I don't know too much about how far slingers can actually throw, but the range in game seems to be too low. By the time you are in range they are too close to enemy units so if they are on skirmish they just turn right away. Its ok for javelins cause of their high damage but this just makes slingers seem like the worst missile type.
    I appreciate the feedback. Haven't received much in a while so this will be sure to be noted.

    1. I have been trying to slow battle speed, what I have found is it really depends on the factions being played. Some of the more heavily armored factions tend to slowly kill each other while the lighter ones tend to have higher damage to compensate for their lower armor. Interestingly, health is similar to Vanilla Tuskmod and weapon damage is nearly identical. Even the rate of unit hits is a slower time as set in the kv_rules. Normal Tuskmod tends to be even faster for me when I play it but it might be because units are able to route quicker and return more often in Realism. Ill look into tweaking things to see if I can find a better battle time.

    2. Slingers are most likely going to have their ranges extended. I am not happy with their ranges so that will likely be fixed.

    Will hopefully update soon with a better build.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Tuskmod Realism Branch: Missile Overhaul and Training System Update

    Haha yeah maybe Walrus should be promoting this part of the mod a bit more, it seems like a really interesting version and I hadn't heard of it until a couple days ago. I like a lot of the ideas you've worked with so far, especially the 100 hp system. I really don't like seeing arbitrary hp differences between similar units. The more simple we can make unit balancing the better afaic.

    Ya to be fair I think it was lower tier units fighting so that definitely would speed things up a bit.

    As far as slingers I support the idea of making them unique by having them between the ranges of javelins and archers, but I think they should maybe have a really high rate of fire compared to javs/archers to compensate. I only know the ranges values not the rate of fire.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Tuskmod Realism Branch: Missile Overhaul and Training System Update

    Some more feedback.

    Entity mass might be a little TOO high, at least in my experience.
    Campaign movement is painfully limited, especially in comparison to what can be achieved in 4 months in the real world, it also limits the ability for the AI to wage war, i think it should be increased by 25-50% at least.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Tuskmod Realism Branch: Missile Overhaul and Training System Update

    Quote Originally Posted by Aethyr View Post
    Some more feedback.

    Entity mass might be a little TOO high, at least in my experience.
    Campaign movement is painfully limited, especially in comparison to what can be achieved in 4 months in the real world, it also limits the ability for the AI to wage war, i think it should be increased by 25-50% at least.
    Entity Mass is actually very close to vanilla for most units unless you mean the bracing modifiers in which that is really unchanged from normal Tuskmod. Campaign movement also should not be changed in any drastic way so if it is the vanilla distance that isn't liked then I personally haven't looked at it.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Tuskmod Realism Branch: Missile Overhaul and Training System Update

    Okay thanks for the response.

    What I am talking about is
    A) Units moving through one another seems a lot more...solid than Vanilla, and routing units are often stuck in massive blobs in towns where normally they flow more freely, also, the routing units are harder to cut down, but perhaps it is another change I am not aware of?

    As for Campaign movement, Ive been playing Divide Et Impera again so I must have forgotten the movement ranges of vanilla, but again, if it could be increased I think its a good thing; it shouldnt take a year for an army to march through Italy etc.
    Of course, this is your (sub)Mod, and its a good one, just trying to pass on feedback.
    Thankyou

  13. #13
    Ferdiad's Avatar Patricius
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    Default Re: Tuskmod Realism Branch: Missile Overhaul and Training System Update

    I started a campaign as the ERE and the main thing I've noticed is how useless the early roman missiles for infantry are. One volley barely causes 2-3 casualties, it's a bit ridiculous.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Tuskmod Realism Branch: Missile Overhaul and Training System Update

    Quote Originally Posted by Ferdiad View Post
    I started a campaign as the ERE and the main thing I've noticed is how useless the early roman missiles for infantry are. One volley barely causes 2-3 casualties, it's a bit ridiculous.
    Can you be more specific with this type of issue? Which missile units are you using and is it just volley one or multiple volleys? Also which units are you fighting against?

  15. #15
    Ferdiad's Avatar Patricius
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    Default Re: Tuskmod Realism Branch: Missile Overhaul and Training System Update

    The first spear units, limitanei have a bow yes? And it's several volleys and it's mostly levy units such as desert spear or such.

  16. #16
    Ferdiad's Avatar Patricius
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    Default Re: Tuskmod Realism Branch: Missile Overhaul and Training System Update

    Also I'd like to know how are the Huns in this compared to Tuskmod? Thinking of starting a campaign and want to know how's the cav effectiveness?

  17. #17

    Default Re: Tuskmod Realism Branch: Missile Overhaul and Training System Update

    Quote Originally Posted by Ferdiad View Post
    Also I'd like to know how are the Huns in this compared to Tuskmod? Thinking of starting a campaign and want to know how's the cav effectiveness?
    Reply to the first post: The Limitanei might have their bows removed as that is a vestigial part of vanilla Tuskmod. They simply had some bows to target very light missile infantry and melee units and were not supposed to be very effective. The units they are shooting at will definitely change how many die. A first volley on a Desert Spear unit will only kill about 2-3 due to their shield I believe. The tower shield held by some of the spear units has a very high missile block chance.

    As for the Huns, steppe horses are much faster than the European breeds so you will definitely have quicker skirmishing capability. Their melee units should do very well against sword and light infantry due to their fast charge speeds. Lancers should also be very effective. The horses are bit smaller than others so their HP is a little lower so watch out for missile units targeting them.

  18. #18
    Ferdiad's Avatar Patricius
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    Default Re: Tuskmod Realism Branch: Missile Overhaul and Training System Update

    Bene playing a few turns and it seems not as fun tbh. Maybe it's the avars campaign I just did but the Hunnic armies seem incredibly weak. Impact damage feels pretty minimal.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Tuskmod Realism Branch: Missile Overhaul and Training System Update

    Hmm that is odd. I haven't changed impact damage from vanilla Tuskmod and Hunnic cavalry actually would have slightly faster charges. Rear charges should be very deadly. Frontal charges should not be effective against formed units but should do pretty well on light-medium infantry.

    EDIT: Doing internal tests on the latest build that will be released soon. Regular Steppe Lancers were able to kill 25-30 out of 200 Shield Bretheren on the charge. I am happy with this value.
    Last edited by The Gravemind; April 13, 2016 at 04:57 PM.

  20. #20
    Ferdiad's Avatar Patricius
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    Default Re: Tuskmod Realism Branch: Missile Overhaul and Training System Update

    Yeah It's grand, I guess I was just used to the Avars from AoC, took a while to get used to the Huns.

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