Divide et Impera - People of Rome Submod [Updated Oct 30]

[Amras89]

I do not think it is a bug
The Africa province is not a industry province but a commerce/agriculture province

[Scaldar]

I totally agree. I think it's a good example for how to work the region "debuff" mechanic (if it works). It may not have a special description, but i can see the regions debuffs effect on the income table.

[Dresden]

Once we get the manpower system operating properly and balanced, its possible we may be able to further integrate the supply, region effect and manpower system. In other words, a region's fertility will affect both supply and population system. Also, levels of supplies in a region could also affect population growth. If we can get all of these systems into a synergy (to use a corporate buzzword), I think it would be quite awesome!

[Matt Slow]

...I am considering removing all difficulty effects for now because it is really hard to balance this itself, much less than with multiple difficulty tiers.

First of all, thanks for your extremely detailed answers to all those questions raised by us in that post. Shows once more how much dedication you are putting into this and why DEI is looking like it is today.

I think you are having a very brilliant idea here, for three reasons:

1) Achieving population growth and happiness resp. public order should be one of the core concepts in Rome which of course isn't ever realistically implied into any TW series as the strong point always was the battle engine. This is why your modding style lifts the whole thing into areas which are usually reserved for hardcore games made by Paradox Interactive and others. But this should not be linked to campaign difficulty, now that you once have two factors: public order and population numbers.

Campaign difficulty should influence public order. Population growth should be linked to your infrastructure, buildings, politics, diplomacy and wars. In other words, good 'imperial' government, warfare and politics will result in better population growth and structure at any level.


2) For adding depth to campaigns it's really mandatory to get down to the population management. I cannot conquer every corner of the wilderness without ever caring where I get reinforcements for my legions. This may slow down the game to a historical model getting closer to emulate realistic progress based on 4 turns/year. Tricky players still will enhance that speed - you can e.g. start taking provinces slowly with one region to build population first - but this is a huge step for a TW game.



3) Finally a reason to recruit auxiliaries in Italy itself! I always knew the Socii had been part of any Roman core legion, directly recruited from towns allied to Rome in the capital province. However, this never made much sense to me in terms of gameplay - and I did not want to invest so much in roleplay.

Now it finally makes sense building auxiliary barracks in Italy itself - because you will soon see there are not enough patricians for all the beloved Triarii. This turns good Socii into an essential part of your army and also this adds a limit to Triarii recruitment.

Economically this is no loss. An agriculture Rome now is even more of a powerhouse (2-3x income of any other rich province is possible after 10-20 rounds based on farming) so this won't hurt Roman power having two recruitment places in the capital province.



Sorry for being long-winded, this makes a short bottom line: Brilliant things to come here, worth ironing out all the bugs.

[Litharion]

As there seems to be some misunderstanding about the effect of positive public order on the population.

Positive public order has no impact.

[Jurand of Cracow]

@ Dresden - thanks for your answers!
I have tried different situations to see if there are consequences for economy of the „Very sparsely populated” region and total population for economy, but I don't think it's been implemented - I've detected no effect. I understand that for now the population system serves only for manpower, not for economy. Fair enough, I'm looking forward to this integration of the the supply, region effects and fertility, economy and manpower systems - I second Matt Slow's praises.
Concerning "region "debuff" mechanic" - it's great idea indeed. One observation: in my Makedonia province I have 3 regions. For industry, in "Pella" there's +20% , in Apollonia -12%, in Larisa (wonder "Olympus") -12%. Strangely enough, the Pella effect for all regions, but the other two only in the respective regions.
Until now I though weather, buildings and wonders have province-wide (de)buffs, but it's seems not to be true.

[Maetharin]

Hey guys!

I´ve now played a few campaigns with the Pop. mechanic and it was awesome!

But I feel that cultural dominance plays way too little a role in population growth.
I think it would have been way easier to apply for citizenship in a hellenistic state if you were greek yourself and vice versa.

Would it be possible to not only differentiate between own and foreign culture, but cultures themselves and applying certain growth boni/mali to the respective dominant culture in a region?
Something like Latin/Egyptian culture not being as negative for Hellenistic population growth as f.e. Celtic/Germanic
If possible, it would be awesome to assign the respective population growth factors to the mix of dominant vs own culture, like nobles of akin cultures (Roman/Hellenistic f.e.) growing, whilst the rest of the non dominant culture decline.

When combined with a slower culture conversion rate, we could f.e. slow down the romanisation of gallia cisalpina, but also accelerate the consolidation of hellenistic factions in previously hellenistic factions.

Best regards

[Amras89]

Maybe it should be at the bug section or maybe it is not a bug.
I chose to post the bug here as I use the pop in the correct campaign.

Alright Both me (Athena), Sparta and Triballi attack the Macedonians last settlement, Pellas. I managed to conquest the city, Triballi left the areal after the battle but Sparta chose to stay in raider stance...
Not only it does a huge cut in my food surplus, public order and the decrease in population but the Sparta Army starving to dead because of the low supply region.
They did not move out of the region or turn into an other stance than the raider for several turns until I destory the army,

It is not normal and a bug I think. With the new pop mod, it is not fun to have a allied army in raider stance in one of own regions

[Dresden]

@Amras probably just the AI being stupid.

@Maetharin I believe in the script its mainly just able to determine if you have dominant culture or not, not percentages. Its possible it could be modified further, but culture itself already does this. There are different modifiers for how fast a certain culture will transfer into other cultures (hellenistic is easier with latin than it is with german, for example). So, since culture itself takes longer, the cultural negatives will be there longer thus affecting growth.

[Dresden]

0.7 (save compatible)
- Fixed a crash issue (hopefully!)
- Fixed arabian and nomad transports suffering attrition.
- Fixed population UI not always properly working on cancelled recruitment.
- Removed difficulty modifiers to population growth as they made balancing even more problematic.
- Various unit stat fixes and changes - thanks to thomas_r for the list! Still more to do here but its a start.
- Fixed Indian elephant hitpoint value.
- Changed Aspis Companions role from melee cavalry to heavy javelin cavalry, due to shift in Macedonian warfare from shock cavalry to ranged cavalry later on. They have more ammo, AI uses them properly but their horse armour gets a slight downgrade.

[Alekho]

Excellent work Dresden & team. Kudos

[Amras89]

Thank for the update. Athena have zero citizen and now they got some after the update.
I do noted almost all of athena's unit, include aoe units, and all of the naval units are recruit from the citizen class. I do not think this is a good idea as the pool can be empty very fast and then we will made a hard time to get new citizen.
I will suggust some of their units as peltasts, some aoe units and all naval units move to the freedman class for better balance.

Are there also other factions, beside Athena, as only recruited from one class?

[Dresden]

As I said earlier, Greek factions indeed have some issues here. They mostly recruit from 1 and 2 unless its levies or helots (sparta). It makes their campaigns a bit difficult but in reality that is how it was, especially at this time. We may look into giving them more of a boost through buildings to their second class (maybe make temples give 2nd class also?). But it is our intent to have the Greeks have this disadvantage to some degree. Playing a Greek campaign, you will have to be very careful about your citizen population and units recruited.

The naval units we may want to look at spreading around a bit more to class 3. Also, I think it may be a good idea to split up the greek factions into more AOR culture groups. That way Athens will have foreign population spent when they recruit Spartan or other AOR troops.

[Augustusng]

And to be honest, many barbarian factions have it just as hard, if not more so, than Athens. The most effective units for all factions are from classes 1 and 2.

[Amras89]

Make temples give 2nd class are a good idea.
Greek factions will get accest to aoe unit in lvl 3 city and town - maybe a good ide to make aoe units recruitment at lvl 2 instead?

I tried also to use confederation option with your all diplomatic options submod as Parthia and I get a huge population boost when I united whole parthia province though diplomati. Strange I cant form ligas with Greek factions?

Alright do you have other factions as we did not tested on yet?

[FlashHeart07]

You shouldnt need Tier 3 cities to get access to AoR units. Although high tier AoR units will ofc need high tier buildings.
Greek factions in the Greek heartland can form a confederation but not with factions like Syracuse.

[Amras89]

I cant form a confederation in the Greek heartland. The option do not show up

[Augustusng]

I cant form a confederation in the Greek heartland. The option do not show up

Athens, Sparta, Pergamon, Knossos, and Rhodes can confederate. If you're playing as Athens, you can't make any confederations while you remain a client state of Macedon.

[Tuhaj bej]

Excellent work!
Thank you very much!

[JCB206]

Please advise if this is not where you want this placed...

Spartan Hoplites - Periocoi manpower pool
Spartan Youths - Foreigner Pool
Perioikoi Hoplites - Foreigner pool
Local Light Hoplites - Hellotes pool
Local Greek levies - Hellotes pool
Spartan Helots - Foreigner Pool
Helot Slingers, Archers, and Javelinmen - Foreigner pool