Having Hard Time Playing DEI - Poor Economy / Army Upkeeps

[ErayErdogan]

Hello there.

So I've been trying DEI for a week now. I started as Carthage at Hard difficulty. Problem was my poor economy. I was only able to raise one full army while my economy crumbled. Upkeeps were too high although I installed a mod which reduced upkeeps. Rome, on the other hand, raised 3-4 full armies coming at me. My units were no match for them also. Never had the chance to recruit elephants. High morale Rome soldiers were simply god-like. I tried 3-4 failed campaigns with Carthage. Then I switched to normal difficulty. Simply nothing changed.

Then I tried Parthia. Same things happened. I try to expand a little bit while maintaining my diplomatic relationships strategically good. But did not work.

I always wanted a challenging campaign experience. But this was simply too much. Or I did not know a lot about the working system of DEI though I've read the whole guide.

Mod is amazing. But I need help.

[FlashHeart07]

First a couple of quick general tips. If you play a campaign with a difficulty set higher than normal, you need to change the battle difficulty in the options menu to normal. Above normal and the AI recieves bonuses to unit stats.
The reason why the AI is able to field more armies than you is simply because of the bonuses they recieve. Without these the AI would crumble under its own stupidity.
Try using different regions for wealth and others for troops, this will enable you to maximize the provinces. Use dignitaries and idle generals to boost your economy through skills and traits. Use Champions to decrease army upkeep (need to be attached to the army for this bonus). Sacking, Looting and Raiding are all viable methods of recieving a bit of extra gold.

[tivihong]

You should try using cheaper troop like levy or in case of Carthage: Merc . Use then disband them in 1 turn, that should save you some cash.
Naval battle has been overhauled so defending on the sea is not much of a problem anymore . Also, careful use of Lybian javelinmen would take care of tanky infantry (Bet you have problem with Triarii)

[Dresden]

There are also some helpful guides in our subforum for that if you are interested.

[dahooscarl]

Carthage is a hard faction to play on Normal, and I'm a very seasoned TW vet. You should try on Normal first. Also expanding anywhere within the first 20-30 turns is usually ill advised. You absolutely have to consolidate, invest in your infastructre more than troops.

For instance, upgrade your town and city centers asap. They net you larger garrisons, more troop types, income and stability. Larger garrisons mean less active troops in the field which means more money each turn.

Don't be afraid to take 10 or so turns to just save. I usually try to get my treasury over 17k and only spend around 6-7k each turn on both troops and buildings. Keep a large treasury in reserve for emergency merc purchase and don't be afraid to cancel a buildings production to get some money back for mercs if the AI paints you into a corner.

Use elephants. Use numidian cavalry. Use Balearic slingers. Use them always.

[ErayErdogan]

Thank you all a lot for your helps. I'll try a new campaign. One more question though, where can we recruit elephants exactly?

[FlashHeart07]

Through the exotic barracks, I believe.

[valky]

As far as I remember, with Tier III (or IV) city buildings you can recruit elephants right away in certain regions. (as mentioned in the AoR screen too)

Further, don't underestimate the reduction in empire maintenance from your dignitaries and governor-generals. This adds up to quite some value...

[dahooscarl]

As far as I remember, with Tier III (or IV) city buildings you can recruit elephants right away in certain regions. (as mentioned in the AoR screen too)

Further, don't underestimate the reduction in empire maintenance from your dignitaries and governor-generals. This adds up to quite some value...

Exactly. Also don't be afraid to assign your generals to different roles. For instance, I like to use two generals in tandem. One with traits that boost morale and melee att/def and another that gives bonuses to cultural conversion, public order, and reduced unit cost/upkeep, and just switch your armies between them as needed.

For admirals, I recommend leveling up thier non mercenary recruitment, research rate, and marine attack. This helps you maintain a larger naval presence.

Lastly, dignitaries are your friends. Keep one in your richest province, your frontier, and in your most expensive army.

[valky]

Yeah, Generals are insane if properly skilled for taxes, maintenance, PO and whatsoever. Oddly, they get their full tax-boost applied and not partially like the dignitaries. (though, they have a base-value, which can be further modified)
I usually don't field many armies anyway, once everything settles and my borders are more or less safe.

[ErayErdogan]

I started a new campaign with normal battle and campaign and did every single thing you said. I won some ambush battles against Rome. But they constantly spawn OP armies. Currently they have 8 cities and 4 full tanky army. Attacking from all sides. While I can only maintain 2 full armies which are no match for Rome and a possible mercenary army which is equal to 1/3 of a Roman full stack army. I can't find enough time to recruit elephants. You can only recruit them in Libya, Ethiophia and Phazanzia which are not my territory and for which I have no time to conquer while figthing with Rome. So, no matter what I do I always seem to fail this campaign unless I try the easy difficulty which does not seem fun.

[FlashHeart07]

Try a different campaign until you get a hang of it
Or some submods to decrease the difficulty in certain areas of the game. Then as you learn you can either remove or decrease the effect of these submods

[dahooscarl]

Try a play through with Rome first. Or Egypt might even be better. That'll give you a better handle on the different aspects of the mod. I was never able to get a good carthage campaign going either. Until I finished my Rome campaign. (First ever vanilla included)

I also wouldn't recruit more elephants than you have at the start. Thier upkeep is too monstrous.

Did you send your fleets around the coasts selling trade rights?

[ErayErdogan]

Try a play through with Rome first. Or Egypt might even be better. That'll give you a better handle on the different aspects of the mod. I was never able to get a good carthage campaign going either. Until I finished my Rome campaign. (First ever vanilla included)

I also wouldn't recruit more elephants than you have at the start. Thier upkeep is too monstrous.

Did you send your fleets around the coasts selling trade rights?

Yeah, I'm scouting with both spy and fleet to sell my rights. Did every single thing. I played a Rome campaign before in Vanilla. It was pretty easy though. I might give it a try with Egypt. I don't know if it'll be with Hard or Normal. But I do really enquire if anyone here in this forum played a succesfull campaign with Carthage. If anyone did, I would like to learn how it unfolded in terms of diplomacy. Rome and Syracuse declares war on me instantly every single time I start a new campaign.

[dahooscarl]

I'm about halfway through my current Carthage campaign. I was able to secure trade rights with Rome(usually gotta pay them 1-2k) if they're making money off of you, they aren't as likely to attack. Syracuse declared on me. I waited in Lilybaem with a half stack of Libyan hoplites, skirmishers and elephants. Scored a Heroic, then took Syracuse.

At this point I had 2 options. War with Rome, or conquer Iberia. My economy still wasn't that stable, so I opted for Iberia. However after Rome steamrolled all of Greece and thier Odrysian allies took Thrace and Macedonia my hand was kind of forced.

Also, if your having a hard time on Normal you should probably stay there. I've played every TW title since its release and I STILL play DEI on Normal.

[JCB206]

Peace with Rome if you can. Sicily is not worth it early on. One of the Numidians will declare war. Take them out. Expand it Spain where prudent. Use Mercs and keep standing army small and build infrastructure. I have played Carthage many times. Even once got Syracuse to become my client state and they conquered almost all Rome till I couldn't let them take Rome itself ��

Trade partners are huge. Are your playing the Barcids? They have a diplomatic penalty with other factions. I rarely use elephants that most seem to love. Huge upkeep. Carthaginian cav and Numidians. Iberian and Libyan infantry. I rarely have a full stack for quite a bit. Two half stacks and load up with Mercs to fight and disband. Quite fun. This is on Very Hard with Normal battles.