US Republican party and pedophelia

[Idwayreth]

so i was looking at random videos on youtube when i came across one that talked about Conservatives and the Republican party being a party of pedophiles and the guy named a few names off a list. So i became curious and decided to do a bit of research to see just how big the problem really is.

found this website near the top of the search and frankly i'm astounded at the number of republicans that have been arrested and convicted for pedophelia. these are the only ones that are known, one can only guess how widespread the problem really is.

http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2006/10/346820.shtml

I dont know if Democrats have nearly as big of a problem with this. conservatives/republicans always boast that they are the party of morals but it seems to me it's always the worst people that preach about morals. i guess supressing primal human urges like sexuality produces extreme depravity and perversion of the sort.

also on that website is a copy of the conversation between mark foley and the teenager online. i read little bits of it and i must admit that was pretty gross, imagining some middle aged guy talking to a boy about how hot his legs are...sick!

What disturbs me particularly is that one of them is about a republican official who tried to prevent a gay couple from adopting a little girl, then proceeded to molest her.

[IronBrig4]

I'm sure that a number of Democratic officials have also been convicted of crimes like that. What really pisses me off about the RNC is they have the galll to pose as champions of old-fashioned, traditional morals.

[harm]

bah...Dems, repubs....we're all a bunch of animals.

[LoZz]

every political party has things like this, i reckon in % terms its the same percent in both partys, its just the dems are better at keeping it under the carpet, or should that be in the bedroom!

[Miraj]

What evidence is their that dems swing that way too? Dems, like Clinton, are generally content with good ol fashioned immorality involving actual 18+ women. Not little boys.

So in a sense the Democratic party is really conservative when it comes to sexual misconduct while the Reps are more wild and like "experimenting" with all types of little boys and girls.

But that list on that website is truly staggering:

-Republican executive Randall Casseday of the conservative Washington Times newspaper was arrested for soliciting sex from a 13-year old girl on the internet.

-Republican chairman of the Oregon Christian Coalition Lou Beres confessed to molesting a 13-year old girl.

-Republican County Constable Larry Dale Floyd was arrested on suspicion of soliciting sex with an 8-year old girl. Floyd has repeatedly won elections for Denton County, Texas, constable.
Republican judge Mark Pazuhanich pleaded no contest to fondling a 10-year old girl and was sentenced to 10 years probation.
Republican Party leader Bobby Stumbo was arrested for having sex with a 5-year old boy.

-Republican petition drive manager Tom Randall pleaded guilty to molesting two girls under the age of 14, one of them the daughter of an associate in the petition business.

-Republican County Chairman Armando Tebano was arrested for sexually molesting a 14-year-old girl.

-Republican teacher and former city councilman John Collins pleaded guilty to sexually molesting 13 and 14 year old girls.

-Republican campaign worker Mark Seidensticker is a convicted child molester.

-Republican Mayor Philip Giordano is serving a 37-year sentence in federal prison for sexually abusing 8- and 10-year old girls.

-Republican Mayor Tom Adams was arrested for distributing child pornography over the internet.

-Republican Mayor John Gosek was arrested on charges of soliciting sex from two 15-year old girls.

-Republican County Commissioner David Swartz pleaded guilty to molesting two girls under the age of 11 and was sentenced to 8 years in prison.

-Republican legislator Edison Misla Aldarondo was sentenced to 10 years in prison for raping his daughter between the ages of 9 and 17.

-Republican Committeeman John R. Curtain was charged with molesting a teenage boy and unlawful sexual contact with a minor.

-Republican anti-abortion activist Howard Scott Heldreth is a convicted child rapist in Florida.

-Republican zoning supervisor, Boy Scout leader and Lutheran church president Dennis L. Rader pleaded guilty to performing a sexual act on an 11-year old girl he murdered.

-Republican anti-abortion activist Nicholas Morency pleaded guilty to possessing child pornography on his computer and offering a bounty to anybody who murders an abortion doctor.

-Republican campaign consultant Tom Shortridge was sentenced to three years probation for taking nude photographs of a 15-year old girl.

-Republican racist pedophile and United States Senator Strom Thurmond had sex with a 15-year old black girl which produced a child.

-Republican pastor Mike Hintz, whom George W. Bush commended during the 2004 presidential campaign, surrendered to police after admitting to a sexual affair with a female juvenile.

-Republican legislator Peter Dibble pleaded no contest to having an inappropriate relationship with a 13-year-old girl.

-Republican advertising consultant Carey Lee Cramer was sentenced to six years in prison for molesting two 8-year old girls, one of whom appeared in an anti-Gore television commercial.

-Republican activist Lawrence E. King, Jr. organized child sex parties at the White House during the 1980s.

-Republican lobbyist Craig J. Spence organized child sex parties at the White House during the 1980s.

-Republican Congressman Donald "Buz" Lukens was found guilty of having sex with a female minor and sentenced to one month in jail.

-Republican fundraiser Richard A. Delgaudio was found guilty of child porn charges and paying two teenage girls to pose for sexual photos.

-Republican activist Mark A. Grethen convicted on six counts of sex crimes involving children.

-Republican activist Randal David Ankeney pleaded guilty to attempted sexual assault on a child.

-Republican Congressman Dan Crane had sex with a female minor working as a congressional page.

-Republican activist and Christian Coalition leader Beverly Russell admitted to an incestuous relationship with his step daughter.

-Republican Judge Ronald C. Kline was placed under house arrest for child molestation and possession of child pornography.

-Republican congressman and anti-gay activist Robert Bauman was charged with having sex with a 16-year-old boy he picked up at a gay bar.

-Republican Committee Chairman Jeffrey Patti was arrested for distributing a video clip of a 5-year-old girl being raped.

-Republican activist Marty Glickman (a.k.a. "Republican Marty"), was taken into custody by Florida police on four counts of unlawful sexual activity with an underage girl and one count of delivering the drug LSD.

-Republican legislative aide Howard L. Brooks was charged with molesting a 12-year old boy and possession of child pornography.
Republican Senate candidate John Hathaway was accused of having sex with his 12-year old baby sitter and withdrew his candidacy after the allegations were reported in the media.

-Republican preacher Stephen White, who demanded a return to traditional values, was sentenced to jail after offering $20 to a 14-year-old boy for permission to perform oral sex on him.

-Republican talk show host Jon Matthews pleaded guilty to exposing his genitals to an 11 year old girl.

-Republican anti-gay activist Earl "Butch" Kimmerling was sentenced to 40 years in prison for molesting an 8-year old girl after he attempted to stop a gay couple from adopting her.

-Republican Party leader Paul Ingram pleaded guilty to six counts of raping his daughters and served 14 years in federal prison.
Republican election board official Kevin Coan was sentenced to two years probation for soliciting sex over the internet from a 14-year old girl.

-Republican politician Andrew Buhr was charged with two counts of first degree sodomy with a 13-year old boy.

-Republican legislator Keith Westmoreland was arrested on seven felony counts of lewd and lascivious exhibition to girls under the age of 16 (i.e. exposing himself to children).

-Republican anti-abortion activist John Allen Burt was found guilty of molesting a 15-year old girl.
Republican County Councilman Keola Childs pleaded guilty to molesting a male child.

-Republican activist John Butler was charged with criminal sexual assault on a teenage girl.

-Republican candidate Richard Gardner admitted to molesting his two daughters.

-Republican Councilman and former Marine Jack W. Gardner was convicted of molesting a 13-year old girl.

-Republican County Commissioner Merrill Robert Barter pleaded guilty to unlawful sexual contact and assault on a teenage boy.

-Republican City Councilman Fred C. Smeltzer, Jr. pleaded no contest to raping a 15 year-old girl and served 6-months in prison.

-Republican activist Parker J. Bena pleaded guilty to possession of child pornography on his home computer and was sentenced to 30 months in federal prison and fined $18,000.

-Republican parole board officer and former Colorado state representative, Larry Jack Schwarz, was fired after child pornography was found in his possession.

-Republican strategist and Citadel Military College graduate Robin Vanderwall was convicted in Virginia on five counts of soliciting sex from boys and girls over the internet.

-Republican city councilman Mark Harris, who is described as a "good military man" and "church goer," was convicted of repeatedly having sex with an 11-year-old girl and sentenced to 12 years in prison.

-Republican businessman Jon Grunseth withdrew his candidacy for Minnesota governor after allegations surfaced that he went swimming in the nude with four underage girls, including his daughter.

-Republican campaign worker, police officer and self-proclaimed reverend Steve Aiken was convicted of having sex with two underage girls.

-Republican director of the "Young Republican Federation" Nicholas Elizondo molested his 6-year old daughter and was sentenced to six years in prison.

-Republican president of the New York City Housing Development Corp. Russell Harding pleaded guilty to possessing child pornography on his computer.

-Republican benefactor of conservative Christian groups, Richard A. Dasen Sr., was found guilty of raping a 15-year old girl. Dasen, 62, who is married with grown children and several grandchildren, has allegedly told police that over the past decade he paid more than $1 million to have sex with a large number of young women.

-Republican Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld authorized the rape of children in Iraqi prisons in order to humiliate their parents into providing information about the anti-American insurgency.

I think the fact that I need to wrap the list of Republican sickos in "code" speaks for itself.

[Gaidin]

I think the fact that I need to wrap the list of Republican sickos in "code" speaks for itself.

I think the fact that you're using a list of less than fifty republicans as a biased sample against the *entire* republican party speaks for itself.

[TheKwas]

Republican Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld authorized the rape of children in Iraqi prisons in order to humiliate their parents into providing information about the anti-American insurgency.

O.O

wtfbbq?

[lawngnome]

Thank you, mirage, for ignoring the logic that pedophilia and incest are deep-rooted psychological problems that have nothing to do with your world view.

Thank you, mirage, for ignoring the fact that well more than half of all pedophiles experienced similar sexual abuse when they were young.

Furthermore, thank you for trying to polarize political parties along a completely impossible-to-survey-correctly statistic.

Construing something as serious and morally despicable as pedophilia for political gain is one of the great political crimes. That's all I will discuss this, as it really sickens me to even take sides in such an argument. But go ahead, join the crowd that stoops so terribly low as to exploit children for political gain.

[Miraj]

Thank you, mirage, for ignoring the logic that pedophilia and incest are deep-rooted psychological problems that have nothing to do with your world view.

Thank you, mirage, for ignoring the fact that well more than half of all pedophiles experienced similar sexual abuse when they were young.

Furthermore, thank you for trying to polarize political parties along a completely impossible-to-survey-correctly statistic.

Construing something as serious and morally despicable as pedophilia for political gain is one of the great political crimes. That's all I will discuss this, as it really sickens me to even take sides in such an argument. But go ahead, join the crowd that stoops so terribly low as to exploit children for political gain.

Holy crap! When did I become the focal point of pedophilia in the republican party? Do you realize I never created this thread?

I just happened agree with Idwayreth that its kind of shocking that so many republicans were caught for this stuff. Especially considering they are the party of family values and sexual conservative-'ness'.

Geeeez.

[mrjesushat]

Thank you, mirage, for ignoring the logic that pedophilia and incest are deep-rooted psychological problems that have nothing to do with your world view.

Actually, he didn't do this. He just seized upon an opportune moment to demonstrate that a large list of Republicans guilty of pedophilia can be accessed via the web. And he re-posted it, in order to remind everyone that at least fifty pedophiles are Republicans. Many of whom are what we would call, "officials". Which is rather unsettling.

Thank you, mirage, for ignoring the fact that well more than half of all pedophiles experienced similar sexual abuse when they were young.

Using this kind of argument, one could further demonstrate that Republicans simply come from households that practice sexual abuse on young children. Ergo, Republicanism is a direct result of a sexually abusive upbringing.

Furthermore, thank you for trying to polarize political parties along a completely impossible-to-survey-correctly statistic.

Yes, this is the basis of American politics. Good eye.

Construing something as serious and morally despicable as pedophilia for political gain is one of the great political crimes. That's all I will discuss this, as it really sickens me to even take sides in such an argument. But go ahead, join the crowd that stoops so terribly low as to exploit children for political gain.

You've misused the word construing, but that's beside the point. I get your jist, and I'll guess that most others will, as well. You are of course correct on this point. Children---and most certainly the sexual abuse thereof---ought never be exploited for political gain. Which point we ought make whenever and wherever we can, such as when the Democrats largely left the Foley scandal alone, whilst Hannity and O'Reilly immediately sought to discuss Foley in terms of being a "closeted Democrat". How nice, how charming. And let us not forget that FOX News made an "oopsy", in which they identified Foley as a Democrat. I won't go run down the link, since it was discussed extensively on this forum at the time.

The reality is going to remain that in American politics, there are two varieties of slime. One of them is somewhat less offensive than the other, but only marginally so. People tend to forget that both Donkeys and Elephants poop. The only essential difference has always been that Elephants leave you with a lot more feces than do Donkeys, after a good BM.

[Aristophanes]

Actually, he didn't do this. He just seized upon an opportune moment to demonstrate that a large list of Republicans guilty of pedophilia can be accessed via the web. And he re-posted it, in order to remind everyone that at least fifty pedophiles are Republicans. Many of whom are what we would call, "officials". Which is rather unsettling.

That would be one way to misconstrue mirage's claims so that they might appear in a positive light...however, a more apt synopsis can be found right here

What evidence is their that dems swing that way too? Dems, like Clinton, are generally content with good ol fashioned immorality involving actual 18+ women. Not little boys.

So in a sense the Democratic party is really conservative when it comes to sexual misconduct while the Reps are more wild and like "experimenting" with all types of little boys and girls.

I think the fact that I need to wrap the list of Republican sickos in "code" speaks for itself.

Oops, I guess I'm just quoting him. It would have been too onerous for you to read what he wrote and faithfully transcribe it, wouldn't it? So, you provided us a euphemistic and deliberately misleading description of his opinion on the matter...why?

Let's do a little math here.

In 1989 Briere and Runtz conducted a study on 193 male undergraduate students concerning pedophilia. Of the sample, 21% acknowledged sexual attraction to some small children; 9% reported sexual fantasies involving children; 5% admitted :wub: to these fantasies; and 7% conceded some probability of actually having sex with a child if they could avoid detection and punishment...

...A study by Hall et al. of Kent State University found that 32.5% of their sample — 80 adult male volunteers, 20% of whom reported some attraction to prepubescent girls — exhibited sexual arousal to heterosexual pedophilic stimuli that equaled or exceeded their arousal to the adult stimuli.

Now, I think it would be appropriate to take these numbers with a grain of salt, and also accept the fact that they don't necessarily hold in conjunction with homosexual pedophilia. Nevertheless, is it not safe to assume that in a country of 300 million people, divided fairly evenly along party lines, it wouldn't be improbable, if one wanted to throw dirt on a party, that one could find a large list of sexual deviants under that banner?

Even if we assume that .05 % of Republicans or Democrats[that's one in 2000] are committed enough to their party to vie for official positions, we have give or take 100 million times .0005 =50,000 people of some position in each party. Give or take. Now, if we take the numbers provided so helpfully by wiki and multiply them by the probable male proportion of the figure, 25, 000+ *.07, because we're being conservative, = 1750. Now, if we follow the same process with homosexual pedophilia, we have to be more careful with the numbers: roughly 4% of males are homosexual, or so it's thought. So, 25, 000 *0.04*0.07= 70.

Those are conservative, conservative estimates. And I don't mean as a function of political ideology, I mean it in the accounting sense of the word.

See where I'm going with this? It's not hard, with a little critical thinking, to see that deliberately misleading anecdata are...well...just that.

Using this kind of argument, one could further demonstrate that Republicans simply come from households that practice sexual abuse on young children. Ergo, Republicanism is a direct result of a sexually abusive upbringing.

Indeed one could. It wasn't a very well thought out repartee.

Yes, this is the basis of American politics. Good eye.

I wish it were just an American problem.

You've misused the word construing, but that's beside the point.

Did he really? I'm not so sure you're correct in making that criticism.

I get your jist, and I'll guess that most others will, as well. You are of course correct on this point. Children---and most certainly the sexual abuse thereof---ought never be exploited for political gain. Which point we ought make whenever and wherever we can, such as when the Democrats largely left the Foley scandal alone, whilst Hannity and O'Reilly immediately sought to discuss Foley in terms of being a "closeted Democrat". How nice, how charming. And let us not forget that FOX News made an "oopsy", in which they identified Foley as a Democrat. I won't go run down the link, since it was discussed extensively on this forum at the time.

I'm not sure whether I thought this was an ironic or hypocritical conclusion first, I just know that both those thoughts popped into my head pretty quickly.

The reality is going to remain that in American politics, there are two varieties of slime. One of them is somewhat less offensive than the other, but only marginally so. People tend to forget that both Donkeys and Elephants poop. The only essential difference has always been that Elephants leave you with a lot more feces than do Donkeys, after a good BM.

That's a poor analogy for the real-world situation, but especially poor because you have no way you can possibly prove the vulgar metaphorical, and self-indulgent assertion that one party is worse than the other in terms of mud-slinging.

[mrjesushat]

That would be one way to misconstrue mirage's claims so that they might appear in a positive light...however, a more apt synopsis can be found right here: (quote follows, please feel free to read above) Oops, I guess I'm just quoting him. It would have been too onerous for you to read what he wrote and faithfully transcribe it, wouldn't it? So, you provided us a euphemistic and deliberately misleading description of his opinion on the matter...why?

What the hell are you even talking about? You've actually completely missed the point of my post. Astonishing. Why? Because it's always fascinating to find an argument ostensibly predicated upon reason from a source that appears to lack any capacity for coherent interpretation of a position or point. The first antecedent for utilizing logic in circumstances such as these is reading comprehension.

Now, I think it would be appropriate to take these numbers with a grain of salt, and also accept the fact that they don't necessarily hold in conjunction with homosexual pedophilia. Nevertheless, is it not safe to assume that in a country of 300 million people, divided fairly evenly along party lines, it wouldn't be improbable, if one wanted to throw dirt on a party, that one could find a large list of sexual deviants under that banner?

Suddenly, and almost as if at random, you discover my point (the underlined business). A weird way to begin an attack, but I can hardly complain.

Even if we assume that .05 % of Republicans or Democrats[that's one in 2000] are committed enough to their party to vie for official positions, we have give or take 100 million times .0005 =50,000 people of some position in each party. Give or take. Now, if we take the numbers provided so helpfully by wiki and multiply them by the probable male proportion of the figure, 25, 000+ *.07, because we're being conservative, = 1750. Now, if we follow the same process with homosexual pedophilia, we have to be more careful with the numbers: roughly 4% of males are homosexual, or so it's thought. So, 25, 000 *0.04*0.07= 70.

Cool. What's this got to do with the fact that Republicans sometimes are also pedophiles, whilst simultaneously trumpeting "family values"?

Those are conservative, conservative estimates. And I don't mean as a function of political ideology, I mean it in the accounting sense of the word.

I'm tempted to ask, "Republican accountants?", but realize just how seriously you are taking this exercise in reason. Instead, I'll say that those are nice figures, and you did a great job in finding them. What's this have to do with the fact that Republicans are sometimes pedophiles, whilst simultaneously attempting to trade on political capital drawn from "family values".

See where I'm going with this? It's not hard, with a little critical thinking, to see that deliberately misleading anecdata are...well...just that.

Um, yeah, unless it's actually the case that the reader completely missed the point of the posting, and fails to see that nothing was misleading at all. Wouldn't it have been simpler to just read what I posted and understand that I was demonstrating that one can bend facts and figures like this to serve nearly any position? What mild criticism (if any) that I offer of the Republican party is on the order of the pretense of morality. The Dems would be equally engaged in hypocrisy on these terms, were it not for the fact that they are not as fond of prayer breakfast fund raisers and reliance upon the "Religious Right".

Indeed one could. It wasn't a very well thought out repartee.

This was in reference to my statement to the effect that one could argue from the above positngs that Republicanism is a function of having been sexually abused. That's called, argumentum ad absurdum . It's meant to show that the claim is ridiculous. But I'm sure a skilled logician is well aware of this technique.

I wish it were just an American problem.

Okay. But a Genie would give you three wishes. And one of those should be used on understanding that my statement in no way excludes the rest of the political systems on earth from this difficulty.

Did he really? I'm not so sure you're correct in making that criticism.

You should show me how one can construe an absolute condition for purposes of political gain. One is or is not a pedophile. The law does not really allow for much in the way of in-between.

I'm not sure whether I thought this was an ironic or hypocritical conclusion first, I just know that both those thoughts popped into my head pretty quickly.

Yes, I realize that there was evidently some difficulty in terms of interpretation. Was it the author or the reader? Who cares? I'm going to go buy a Dalmatian and train it to bark up the wrong trees.

That's a poor analogy for the real-world situation, but especially poor because you have no way you can possibly prove the vulgar metaphorical, and self-indulgent assertion that one party is worse than the other in terms of mud-slinging.

No, the bit immediately above is a poor analogy. It is somewhat unrelated to what it seeks to lampoon. The analogy you refer to is very well-calibrated. You got the point, but apparently would prefer a world in which one party is seen as near-perfect, whereas the other is seen as despicable.

[Aristophanes]

What the hell are you even talking about? You've actually completely missed the point of my post. Astonishing. Why? Because it's always fascinating to find an argument ostensibly predicated upon reason from a source that appears to lack any capacity for coherent interpretation of a position or point. The first antecedent for utilizing logic in circumstances such as these is reading comprehension.

If I'd actually shown an incapacity to understand the discussion, that would be one thing; however, I think I'll let you, mirage, and lawngnome speak for yourselves.
1.

What evidence is their that dems swing that way too? Dems, like Clinton, are generally content with good ol fashioned immorality involving actual 18+ women. Not little boys.

So in a sense the Democratic party is really conservative when it comes to sexual misconduct while the Reps are more wild and like "experimenting" with all types of little boys and girls.

I think the fact that I need to wrap the list of Republican sickos in "code" speaks for itself.

Mirage clearly trying to tie pedophilia with Republicanism, rather than anything else.
2.

Thank you, mirage, for ignoring the logic that pedophilia and incest are deep-rooted psychological problems that have nothing to do with your world view.

Lawngnome accusing Mirage of tying pedophilia to Republicanism.
3.

Actually, he didn't do this. He just seized upon an opportune moment to demonstrate that a large list of Republicans guilty of pedophilia can be accessed via the web. And he re-posted it, in order to remind everyone that at least fifty pedophiles are Republicans. Many of whom are what we would call, "officials". Which is rather unsettling.

You accusing lawngnome of misinterpreting Mirage, and thereby implying that Mirage isn't trying to link pedophilia with Republicanism.

4.

That would be one way to misconstrue mirage's claims so that they might appear in a positive light...however, a more apt synopsis can be found right here

Me, telling you to jump in a lake.

It's funny that you would accuse me of misunderstanding context in this situation.

Suddenly, and almost as if at random, you discover my point (the underlined business). A weird way to begin an attack, but I can hardly complain.

You're taking credit you didn't earn here bucko.

I get your jist, and I'll guess that most others will, as well. You are of course correct on this point. Children---and most certainly the sexual abuse thereof---ought never be exploited for political gain. Which point we ought make whenever and wherever we can, such as when the Democrats largely left the Foley scandal alone, whilst Hannity and O'Reilly immediately sought to discuss Foley in terms of being a "closeted Democrat". How nice, how charming. And let us not forget that FOX News made an "oopsy", in which they identified Foley as a Democrat. I won't go run down the link, since it was discussed extensively on this forum at the time.

I'm afraid that doesn't equate to what I said at all. Unless we are to remain as loose in interpretation as mrjesushat seems to determined to be.

Now, I think it would be appropriate to take these numbers with a grain of salt, and also accept the fact that they don't necessarily hold in conjunction with homosexual pedophilia. Nevertheless, is it not safe to assume that in a country of 300 million people, divided fairly evenly along party lines, it wouldn't be improbable, if one wanted to throw dirt on a party, that one could find a large list of sexual deviants under that banner?

Quick synopsis:
You say that sexual abuse ought never be used for political gain, a far cry from my point which was that it isn't unusual to find sexual deviants in any party. Your point is a moral one about appropriateness, and the tactics which ought to be used to sway or convince voters, mine is a factual one concerning relative frequency of deviants in parties.

It is ridiculous that you would attempt to take credit for a point you never made, a point completely different in intent form yours.

Cool. What's this got to do with the fact that Republicans sometimes are also pedophiles, whilst simultaneously trumpeting "family values"?

I agree that it is obscene the way Republicans try to set themselves up as paragons of virtue, but I don't think that the acts of such a statistically insignificant part of the membership and of the number of people who vote Republican would classify this party as hypocritical.

I'm tempted to ask, "Republican accountants?", but realize just how seriously you are taking this exercise in reason. Instead, I'll say that those are nice figures, and you did a great job in finding them. What's this have to do with the fact that Republicans are sometimes pedophiles, whilst simultaneously attempting to trade on political capital drawn from "family values".

My intent has never been stated as a defense of Republican propaganda, principles or ideals, of the party or its members, but a factual examination and critical analysis of this list of pedophiles, touted as definitive proof that Republicans are satanists.[i paraphrase]

Um, yeah, unless it's actually the case that the reader completely missed the point of the posting, and fails to see that nothing was misleading at all. Wouldn't it have been simpler to just read what I posted and understand that I was demonstrating that one can bend facts and figures like this to serve nearly any position? What mild criticism (if any) that I offer of the Republican party is on the order of the pretense of morality. The Dems would be equally engaged in hypocrisy on these terms, were it not for the fact that they are not as fond of prayer breakfast fund raisers and reliance upon the "Religious Right".

I'm sorry, are you the person who posted the list originally? Are you mirage? Is all discussion here aimed only at you?

This was in reference to my statement to the effect that one could argue from the above positngs that Republicanism is a function of having been sexually abused. That's called, argumentum ad absurdum . It's meant to show that the claim is ridiculous. But I'm sure a skilled logician is well aware of this technique.

What were you saying about reading comprehension? You either understood that I was agreeing with you, and had to be insufferably pompous, or you didn't understand that I was agreeing with you.

Okay. But a Genie would give you three wishes. And one of those should be used on understanding that my statement in no way excludes the rest of the political systems on earth from this difficulty.

I think you are misinterpreting me here...

You should show me how one can construe an absolute condition for purposes of political gain. One is or is not a pedophile. The law does not really allow for much in the way of in-between.

Wow, way to misunderstand him so that you could make a criticism. He was saying that the original poster was construing pedophilia as a uniquely, or heavily Republican affliction. Ergo...

Yes, I realize that there was evidently some difficulty in terms of interpretation. Was it the author or the reader? Who cares? I'm going to go buy a Dalmatian and train it to bark up the wrong trees.

I don't think that is particularly necessary...

No, the bit immediately above is a poor analogy. It is somewhat unrelated to what it seeks to lampoon. The analogy you refer to is very well-calibrated. You got the point, but apparently would prefer a world in which one party is seen as near-perfect, whereas the other is seen as despicable.

I made no analogy.

That's a poor analogy for the real-world situation, but especially poor because you have no way you can possibly prove the vulgar metaphorical, and self-indulgent assertion that one party is worse than the other in terms of mud-slinging.

If the definitive test of the analogy were merely that we be capable of discerning provocation and error, then your analogy would be apt, but the test of a good analogy is whether it corresponds to real-world situations, and , until such time as you can prove that Democrats sling less mud than Republicans, that analogy is poor.

[danzig]

Things like:

"Republican Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld authorized the rape of children in Iraqi prisons in order to humiliate their parents into providing information about the anti-American insurgency."

Make the 'list' little more then attempts to equate being a republican with being a child molester. You could go thru both political parties find people who were arrested for every crime under the sun and produce similiar lists ranging from spousal abuse, sustance abusers etc. Hell the size Kennedy family alone would qualify the democrats as a party of drunks. Political party is completely irrelevant to the crimes people commit hence the 'list' is pointless.

[Idwayreth]

Construing something as serious and morally despicable as pedophilia for political gain is one of the great political crimes. That's all I will discuss this, as it really sickens me to even take sides in such an argument. But go ahead, join the crowd that stoops so terribly low as to exploit children for political gain.

You're perfectly right, i shouldn't have created an obviously fiery thread for political gain...OH WAIT i dont belong to ANY political party, in fact i dont even vote....gee who'd have thunk that...

So i guess that throws your assumption that i have some sort of political agenda by posting this down the gutter. I posted this purely out of curiosity as to why a political party which have the so called moral high ground indulge in such despicable behaviours

Thanks for turning this into another Reps vs Dems thread when it wasn't to begin with. Stop being paranoid.
"But Idwayreth pedophelia has nothing to do with their political views lol"

Right...except you seem to ignore the fact that they tout themselves as being a moral, christian values group and try to outlaw free thinking ideas like gay marriage and even questioning homosexuality itself. All i'm saying is dont try to hold yourself above everyone else when botton line you do worse things than what you preach against.

I just hold you in higher regard than Idwayreth, to be honest.

Peace and love to all

Now there's a contradiction if i ever saw one. Is that suppose to make me feel bad? i'm sorry who are you that i should care that you dont think highly of me?

[lawngnome]

Don't get me wrong. I'm not defending Rep's or attacking Dem's. I'm rather cynical about the whole political process anyway. I'm sorry I came off so harsh, as I simply have strong feelings about this subject, especially when it is used for political gain. So I got set off when I saw politics mixed with something so severe.

Is that suppose to make me feel bad? i'm sorry who are you that i should care that you dont think highly of me?

No, I simply have had more experience with mirage. I think very little of you in the sense I don't know what to think of you. That's the extent of it. I 'attacked' mirage, after all, so take it easy. I was obviously giving you a pass, so please don't take offense.

My smart-ass comment "peace and love to all" was my way of backing out of this argument, as I clearly have no place in a debate in which I have such strong personal feelings. I don't usually enjoy making a fool of myself. Usually

[Siblesz]

I look at it this way:

Hypocrisy is the foundation of sin.

The logic of the above is absolute. Let's apply it to things like pedophilia in the Republican party.

The sin is pedophilia. Most every pedophile is ashamed of his/her nature. Therefore, most every pedophile will fight against their very nature in a struggle of temptation. Following the reasoning that a pedophile will battle his own self, then most every pedophile will have very strict moral views against pedophilia for they will need to check their desires and convince themselves that what they think is morally wrong. Ergo, the end result is a character who is strongly attached to religion, who is seeking salvation from 'evil thoughts', and who will most likely reach out for the more conservative side in politics (ej. the Republicans).

Of course, it's not as clear cut. Pedophiles in Congress/politics are not ALL republicans. But I can assure you that a majority of them are so. It's simple logic.

[Orca]

Thank you, mirage, for ignoring the logic that pedophilia and incest are deep-rooted psychological problems that have nothing to do with your world view.

This might be off topic, but isn't it possible that your world view might be influenced by deep-rooted psychological problems?

[lawngnome]

This might be off topic, but isn't it possible that your world view might be influenced by deep-rooted psychological problems?

Indeed, it may be. Although it would likely be in the way Siblesz described.

And yes, pedophilia is an odd thing... 30 year old women who sleep with 12 year old boys (who do it because it makes them look 'cool') are pedophiles.

After that it is very state-by-state. Age of consent in Texas is 17 I think, but I've lived places where it was 16, and many states also have a "within 5 years clause" that gives a pass to a 19 y.o. sleeping with a 15 y.o.

[Erik]

And yes, pedophilia is an odd thing... 30 year old women who sleep with 12 year old boys (who do it because it makes them look 'cool') are pedophiles.

Of course they are.
A 30 year old man sleeping with a 12 year old boy is also a pedophile, even if the boy wants to.
The sex of the pedophile doesn't matter.

After that it is very state-by-state. Age of consent in Texas is 17 I think, but I've lived places where it was 16, and many states also have a "within 5 years clause" that gives a pass to a 19 y.o. sleeping with a 15 y.o.

Yes, this is an interesting point.
And to make it more complicated: some 14 year old girls look like 18 year olds, and some 16 year olds look like 12 year olds.
If you are attracted to a 14 year old who acts and looks like an 18 year old I don't think you are a pedophile, but you are according to the law.

I think a true pedophile is only somebody who is sexually attracted to people who aren't sexually mature in a biological sense (=first menstruation for girls and first ejaculation for boys).