Civitate and Artifex Suffrage Act

[Gaius Baltar]

I proposed legislation in the Prothalamus to return the right of Curia vote to Civitate and Artifex.

Unfortunately I am unable to post anymore in the Prothalamus, so I will continue, in part, my quest for equality and fairness here.

Please vote and respond.

GB

[Garbarsardar]

Post here your argument and I will re-post it in the proth., with the presumed tolerance of the Curia...

[Lusted]

Moved to the Curia as that is where this should have been posted.

[Spiff]

Im sorry, no polls are permited in the Curia forum.

Curia
For general discussion of governance related matters. Polls are not permitted within the Curia main. All Citizens may post in this area and propose informal legislation for discussion, though it will require Patrician support to become officially recognised in the Prothalamos, as per the Legislation section of the Syntagma.

[HorseArcher]

Im sorry, no polls are permited in the Curia forum.

ok, i'm gonna disable the poll availability in the curia.

[Spiff]

This thread is open again, but try to keep the polling to a minimum, please discuss the issues only

[Gaius Baltar]

Copy of legislation proposed in the Prothalamus.

Changes made incorporating suggestions from Artifex members.

Also accepting sponsors for version II of this bill.

Sponsors:


Returns the right of voting to the Civitate and Artifex member classes.


The Curia
A special section shall be made in the forum to discuss pertinent topics in governance, a place for the Citizens to propose legislation, and to post relevant developments. The Curia is a place for the exchange of ideas, and if the rules against any infractions are tough in the normal forums, in the Curia, they are doubly so. The Curia is broken into distinct sections:

Curia
For general discussion of governance related matters. Polls are not permitted within the Curia main. All Citizens may post in this area and propose informal legislation for discussion.

Prothalamos
An area specifically for formally proposing and discussing legislation and ideas relating to TWC, but not for voting. All Citizens may post and discuss in the Prothalamus.

Curia Vote
An area strictly used for voting on proposed legislation, as outlined in the Legislation section. Surveys are not permitted within this sub-forum. All Citizens may vote, post and discuss in the Curia Vote.


Legislation
Any Citizen is able to post a Bill in the Prothalamos for discussion, which does not require named support. If a version of the bill becomes supported by a minimum of three other Citizens, the proposer can request that the Syntagma Curator move the supported version of a bill to a vote three days after it was first posted.

Should it be judged that after the minimum of three days more time is needed for debate on the subject, or that the debate is active, and moving the Bill would be premature, the progression to voting of the Bill may be delayed at the discretion of the Syntagma Curator. If the Syntagma Curator decides to delay the vote on a Bill beyond one month, then this decision is subject to staff ratification in the same way as a staff veto.

Once moved to vote, all bills shall be voted on over a one-week period. All Bills will be required to run for the full duration so that all Citizens may be able to vote if they so wish. Citizens are proscribed from viewing the results of any poll in the Curia they have not voted in. In addition, responses (including indirect methods such as signatures) in the Curia Vote sub-forum will be limited to notification of having voted. A Bill shall pass on the basis of a two-thirds majority in favor. Abstentions are not considered when determining whether a Bill has achieved the required proportion of voters. If any Bill fails a vote, no revote on a substantially similar bill will be permitted for twenty-eight days.

To the extent made possible by the forum software, no member will be able to view the results of a poll in the Curia until he has voted in the poll or it has closed.

If the forum software cannot reasonably be modified to prohibit viewing of poll results by any given member, that member, is hereby obliged on their honour as a Citizens not to view the results of any poll in the Curia he has not voted in unless necessary for the execution of any duties he may have to the site.

(This version replaces the term Civitate with Citizen to indicate membership of both Civitate and Artifex classes)

Suggestions welcome.

[John Wayne]

The Curia Vote section should be for voting only, all discussion should be limited to the Proth and Curia Main. Other than that, I support this.

[Tom Paine]

I think we need to wait until we have an up-to-date Syntagma at all before doing this; as that process is ongoing can I once more ask people to hold off on this?

[Ardeur]

I think there is much that needs to take place before this Act is worth the time. What is the Curia for? What are its powers? Is there still a Syntagma?

From what I've seen out of HorseArcher and other staff postings, these things have yet to be decided upon. My advice would be to wait and see. If the Curia's only power is deciding its own ranks, or editing a flaccid Syntagma then, I'd say let the Patricians have it.

There's the World War 2 illustration of the Jews in a concentration camp. The Nazi commander decides to experiment with morale by giving them the task of moving a pile of dirt from one end of the camp to the other. Then when they are finished, he gives them the task of moving it back. And so on and so forth. In the end, many ended up killing themselves because the meaningless work got to them.

Same goes here, if the work of the Curia is pointless, its not going to be worth your time. I say wait for decisions to be put in place that either make the Curia meaningful, or kill it and put it out of its misery.

[Tom Paine]

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...44#post1359644
The proposed new new (new?) Syntagma. As I said, wait for this to have been dealt with first.

[Gaius Baltar]

Proposal Version 3, incorporating Darth Revans suggestion about wording concerning the Curia Vote passage.

The legislation can be scheduled after action on current "New Syntagma" proposal by Garbasardar, or it could be combined with said proposal.

Sponsors: The following members have indicated support for this bill. Please correct me if in error.

Perikles
Reidy
Scottishranger
Soggy Frog
Darth Revan
Garbasardar (kinda)
Halie Santanus (kinda)
Gaius Baltar


Returns the right of voting to the Civitate and Artifex member classes.

Defines "Citizen" as a term including members of both the Civitate and Artifex classes.


The Curia
A special section shall be made in the forum to discuss pertinent topics in governance, a place for the Citizens (members of both Civitate and Artifex classes) to propose legislation, and to post relevant developments. The Curia is a place for the exchange of ideas, and if the rules against any infractions are tough in the normal forums, in the Curia, they are doubly so. The Curia is broken into distinct sections:

Curia
For general discussion of governance related matters. Polls are not permitted within the Curia main. All Citizens may post in this area and propose informal legislation for discussion.

Prothalamos
An area specifically for formally proposing and discussing legislation and ideas relating to TWC, but not for voting. All Citizens may post and discuss in the Prothalamus.

Curia Vote
An area strictly used for voting on proposed legislation, as outlined in the Legislation section. Surveys are not permitted within this sub-forum. All Citizens may vote within the Curia Vote.


Legislation
Any Citizen is able to post a Bill in the Prothalamos for discussion, which does not require named support. If a version of the bill becomes supported by a minimum of three other Citizens, the proposer can request that the Syntagma Curator move the supported version of a bill to a vote three days after it was first posted.

Should it be judged that after the minimum of three days more time is needed for debate on the subject, or that the debate is active, and moving the Bill would be premature, the progression to voting of the Bill may be delayed at the discretion of the Syntagma Curator. If the Syntagma Curator decides to delay the vote on a Bill beyond one month, then this decision is subject to staff ratification in the same way as a staff veto.

Once moved to vote, all bills shall be voted on over a one-week period. All Bills will be required to run for the full duration so that all Citizens may be able to vote if they so wish. Citizens are proscribed from viewing the results of any poll in the Curia they have not voted in. In addition, responses (including indirect methods such as signatures) in the Curia Vote sub-forum will be limited to notification of having voted. A Bill shall pass on the basis of a two-thirds majority in favor. Abstentions are not considered when determining whether a Bill has achieved the required proportion of voters. If any Bill fails a vote, no revote on a substantially similar bill will be permitted for twenty-eight days.

To the extent made possible by the forum software, no Citizen will be able to view the results of a poll in the Curia until he has voted in the poll or it has closed.

If the forum software cannot reasonably be modified to prohibit viewing of poll results by any given member, that member, is hereby obliged on their honour as a Citizen not to view the results of any poll in the Curia he has not voted in unless necessary for the execution of any duties he may have to the site.

[Tom Paine]

Have you checked this against the new Syntagma for compatibility, GB? It might be a good idea. Also to see how discussion on that goes in the first place, before trying to amend it!

[Garbarsardar]

Have you checked this against the new Syntagma for compatibility, GB? It might be a good idea. Also to see how discussion on that goes in the first place, before trying to amend it!

I had this bill in mind too when compiling the new Syntagma. It can be integreated with minimal effort...

[Sétanta]

Why would we go back upon the reforms that we had just months ago? To be sure, I opposed that with my life, but now I see the logic behind that. If the Curia is going to be trusted by Staff, then why would you allow anybody that has given a good post to vote? Sure, they are capable of making a decision, but most are not active enough in the Curia to be trusted to vote on completely informed everytime.

In my opinion, the Curia should be TWC's version of a Legislative branch. In a real world legislature, the senators, or MPs or whatever come to meetings every day, and then vote. If Civitates and Artifex's could vote, then the majority of voters would never participate in discussion, never contribute to the Curia but still vote, creating an environment where people are just voting but never really knowing what is going on.

Now I think the Curia needs more participation, which is why I am willing to sponsor many bills proposed by Civitates. Unfortunately, the Civitate class has been very reluctant to do that ever since Rolanbek and I got promoted to Patrician.

Oh, and this bill needs to sponsored by a Patrician before supporters can be gathered, and at that time it would be moved into the Prothalamos, although I suppose a concurrent discussion could take place here.

[Gaius Baltar]

I had this bill in mind too when compiling the new Syntagma. It can be integreated with minimal effort...

Thanks, I will look into the wording of the sections Ive proposed and try to clean it up a bit. So hopefully Version 4 will be out soon.

[Tom Paine]

But... but... Spiff's drafting us a new Syntagma. Which we haven't seen. And that's going to be the one that goes to vote, not Garb's, and we know (cos he said so) that he wants to change certain sections. Furthermore isn't it a good idea to let this settle til we actually have a Syntagma to amend and a legislative process to amend it with, neither of which are technically extant at present?

[John Wayne]

Yes and no.

Yes it is a good idea to wait for Spiff to draft a new Syntagma so that we actually have one that is valid and amend.

No as it would drafted without the full consent of the Curia, which this Act wishes to change, and may go under heavy revision as such.

I admit that the above is only speculation on my part, but I would rather see a united Curia than a divided one on the creation of a Newer Syntagma.

[Tom Paine]

There is now a new Syntagma in force, so may as well go with this Bill if you want to (seriously people. Bill. Not Act.)... but I still don't support until we see what happens based on recent reforms.

[John Wayne]

As would I. Until the dust settles everything is extremely iffy, including the Curia. Everything depends on the ON Admins, the 'Hexagon' Council, and what they decide is best for TWC. However, I still support this Bill and do hope to see it go to vote.