ChivTW Unit Preview: After 0.50 Release Versions

[SicilianVespers]

There are some extensive unit changes/additions since 0.50. Some of the reskins, and or renames are as follows:

Byzantines:

Tagmata Klibanophoroi (ex. Athanatai Tagmata)




Do you prefer the darker or lighter blue epilorikion?

Peltastai


Trapezitae


Themata Spatharioi



Baltic Crusader Units:

Sword Brethren Foot Knights


Sword Brethren Knights



Siculo-Normans:

Siculo-Norman Nobles:


Siculo-Norman Knights:


Both storming the streets of Girgenti:


Saracen Archers


Sicilian Saracen Infantry and Horse Archers have also received the same uniform.

Siculo-Norman Guardsmen


Siculo-Greek Sailors



Pisa (Italians):

Sardi Mercenaries


Pisan Sailors


Lombard (Italian) Knights





Pisan High Noble Knights:


Zirids (Berbers):

Berber Lancers:


Some of the Byzantine units renames are as follows:

Themata Athanatai -> Themata Klibanophoroi
Klibanophoroi -> Kataphraktoi
Kataphraktoi -> Kataphraktoi Toxotai
Skutatoi -> Kontaratoi
Themata Taxeis -> Themata Kontaratoi
varangian_guard ->Varrangoi Tagmata
latinikoi -> Latinikon Mercenaries
szekely_merc (Balkan Mercenaries) -> Skythikon Mercenaries

I have also been contemplating renaming the Exkoubitors Tagmata to Tagmata Skoutatoi, since they really carry a Skuta shield.

Opinions?

Pinned /DV

[Zenith Darksea]

I posted this at stratcommandcenter.com, but I thought I'd post it here as well for good measure.

They're absolutely fantastic, but I see that you still can't get the Greek right. Please, for the love of a twisted pedant like myself, try and make sure that the Greek names of Byzantine units actually make sense in Greek. For example:

Tagmata Klibanophoron should be Klibanophoron Tagma
Trapezitae should be Trapezitai
Themata Spatharioi should be Thematikoi Spatharioi or Thematon Spatharioi
Dynatoi Oiketai should be Dynastou Oiketai (I assume you're attempting to say 'Emperor's Retainers'?)
Themata Kontaratoi should be Thematikoi Kontaratoi or Thematon Kontaratoi
Varrangoi Tagmata should be Varangion Tagma
Latinikon Mercenaries were much better as Latinikoi, or would also be good as Latinikoi Misthophoroi
Skythikon Mercenaries likewise would be better as Skythikoi or Skythikoi Misthophoroi

These Greek corrections of mine, even if I do say so myself, are much more elegant, idiomatic, and correct.

Now, as for the Exkoubitores, you may well refer to them as a 'Tagma' (remember, it is one Tagma and two Tagmata) but a 'Skoutatos' could be any infantryman practically, as by this point in history the Skouta/Skouton referred generally to large infantry shields. Historically the word 'Skoutatos' was much more likely to refer to an ordinary infantryman than anyone else. So you might just leave the name at 'Exkoubitores'.

[Grand Master of the Order]

Good suggestions, we lack a native greek member, so excuse our bad spelling.

Please ensure, that your suggestions are in a form of greek, which has been spoken in the Eastern Roman Empire. I'm not an expert though, but the 'ou' seems more like modern greek to me. :hmmm:

[Zenith Darksea]

I am a student of Classical Greek who has since learned Modern Greek, picking up a lot of Medieval Greek along the way. I assure you that the 'ou' diphthong goes right back to before the fifth century BC.

[mrjesushat]

Great units. One question, though.

Why are the Siculo-Norman Nobles wearing lamellar? Had they picked up on Byzantine-style armor by then? I always thought that they went with chain hauberks because it was cheaper and more accessible to westerners.

[SicilianVespers]

Great units. One question, though.

Why are the Siculo-Norman Nobles wearing lamellar? Had they picked up on Byzantine-style armor by then? I always thought that they went with chain hauberks because it was cheaper and more accessible to westerners.

You're right. Lamellar armour was very common in southern Italy due to the strong Byzantine influence.

[Shadow_Imperator]

Maybe you could have the Exkoubitores as Exkoubitores as they are, as what I would call, a 'foot guard' unit. So maybe you could make the Skutatoi a heavy swordsman, much like you now have the new Kontaratoi as a heavier spearman variant and the new Themata Kontaratoi as the lighter variant.

Btw, in Greek, what is the exact meaning/translation of Themata Taxeis? Would that name now have become entirely redundant, or is there a chance they could be ressurected as a very el chepo militia unit? Lastly, any chance you could bring back the Prionoi Allagion? (lol, I can NEVER spell that right...).

[Zenith Darksea]

The exact translation of Themata Taxeis is something like 'Provinces [and] Units'. In Greek, that just doesn't make any sense. The Pronoiarioi or Pronoiarion Allagion would be a good unit for the late period (CA's original Pronoia Allagion was totally ungrammatical - it translates as 'Foresight [and] Battalion').

Incidentally, I added the 'and' in square brackets because in Greek, when you have two nominatives next to each other that are inapposite, they take on a predicative role rather than attributive. In other words, they come out with the sense of 'a something and a something else' rather than 'a something something'. It's hard to explain to non-linguists!

[SicilianVespers]

The exact translation of Themata Taxeis is something like 'Provinces [and] Units'. In Greek, that just doesn't make any sense. The Pronoiarioi or Pronoiarion Allagion would be a good unit for the late period (CA's original Pronoia Allagion was totally ungrammatical - it translates as 'Foresight [and] Battalion').

Incidentally, I added the 'and' in square brackets because in Greek, when you have two nominatives next to each other that are inapposite, they take on a predicative role rather than attributive. In other words, they come out with the sense of 'a something and a something else' rather than 'a something something'. It's hard to explain to non-linguists!

Actually, we have a Pronoiarioi Kavallarioi in the works for late.

The only place I have ever seen Taxeis used in a Byzantine context, was in reference to the entire army. As Taxeis Vasilikon or something to that effect.

[Zenith Darksea]

Ah, glad to hear about the Pronoiarioi Kavallarioi. Taxis is not a very specific word - you can translate it as 'battalion', 'formation', 'regiment' etc. depending on the context. Taxeis does indeed generally refer to a whole army (it is the plural of Taxis).

[jaklei]

Wheres the files :O

[drak10687]

which files do you mean? Do you mean the link to to the download does not work? If so, please specify which one.