Is there a point in being good?

[Gungalley]

Is there? I dont mean you should be evil but is there a point to going out of your way to be a good person? To care abt other ppl's feelings (even those not impt to you), to love and help your enemies etc... Seems like good guys often get unappreciated IRL and often get the short end of the stick.

[Atheist Peace]

There's not a "point" to doing anything; everyone will eventually die and everyone's life will cease to have any sort of meaning. However, if it makes one happy to live life according to some sort of principle of what's "good" (be that murdering children or helping the poor; it's all relative of course), there's not really any reason not to, I suppose.

[Gungalley]

Well then its all back to the primal instinct of self preservation isn't it?

[Gwendylyn]

Well then its all back to the primal instinct of self preservation isn't it?

In a sense that's exactly what it is about. Working together in a community, or tribe, it is much easier to survive. The only way to create that sense of community, and ensure it survives, is to act in ways we determine as 'good'. It is not just about your own personal welfare, otherwise once you die it wouldn't matter: instinctively its about your children's welfare as well, and their progeny, and ensuring they have a chance to survive and continue your line.

The way we think about it has changed over time, but that's the general basis.

[vikrant]

yup otherwise the mods will bann ur account :tooth:

if u expect some good from someone else then u should also give him something good .
there is no need/point of being good if u dont expect good in return.

[Gungalley]

yup otherwise the mods will bann ur account :tooth:

if u expect some good from someone else then u should also give him something good .
there is no need/point of being good if u dont expect good in return.

Hahaha. I don't quite understand your 2nd part. You mean, you only do good if you expect smoething good in return and theres no point in other circumstances?

[Gungalley]

The tribal explanation goes against the "great goodness" acts like loving thy enemy, forgiveness, caring about others who have little importance or relations to you etc..., cos they don't aid in self preservation.

Also, altruism in our lives are just plain ideals and we shouldnt exercise it if it doesn't benefit us?

I'm losing faith in going out of my way to be good and may just turn towards neutrality instead. (talking in RPG alignment terms)

[Gwendylyn]

The tribal explanation goes against the "great goodness" acts like loving thy enemy, forgiveness, caring about others who have little importance or relations to you etc..., cos they don't aid in self preservation.

Except that logically and ethically, most of those can be covered by the idea of self-preservation - which isn't necessarily a selfish desire. Caring about others who have little importance is in our self-interest as a species, even if not necessarily immediately as a community, and as such is relatively rarer because of its reliance on forethought. However, be presented with an anonymous child or a baby in a dangerous situation and automatically the majority of people will have an urge to protect it.

Acts of great goodness are varied, and generally not defined well enough, but overall they still do the same as I mentioned: try to improve the community (or tribe) for oneself and ones children, to better help them survive (or, in more recent terms, better standards of living and success).

Also, altruism in our lives are just plain ideals and we shouldnt exercise it if it doesn't benefit us?

Altruism seems to be an inherited personality trait among humans: children have been shown to be naturally atruistic. I think it's safe to say that if we as a species have developed altruistic tendancies, it was done so to our benefit.

Think of it this way: thousands of years ago we are moving into tribal communities. Someone who is altruistic is immediately valuable to another person, i.e. you've done something for me that I like, and therefore I want to keep you around. People who were not altruistic, or acted in ways that hurt the community, were cast out, and alone they would not be able to survive. Most of modern civiliations' laws have developed in one way or another from that basic principle.

[Bwaho]

It has to be a mixture of good and bad.

being too good is weak and being too bad will only backfire on yourself in the end.

[Lusted]

Is there? I dont mean you should be evil but is there a point to going out of your way to be a good person? To care abt other ppl's feelings (even those not impt to you), to love and help your enemies etc... Seems like good guys often get unappreciated IRL and often get the short end of the stick.

Yes there is. Whilst us good guys may go unappreciated sometimes in real life, i would not change being a good guy because of that. Whilst some may not appreciate all the effort that goes into being a good guy, others realise it, and value you because of who you are, for the very fact you are good. We may get the short end of the stick so to speak from time to time, but i have found that when you meet people who you become friends with/go out with, that they value your friendship even more because your a good, nice guy.

[Farnan]

Yes there is. Whilst us good guys may go unappreciated sometimes in real life, i would not change being a good guy because of that. Whilst some may not appreciate all the effort that goes into being a good guy, others realise it, and value you because of who you are, for the very fact you are good. We may get the short end of the stick so to speak from time to time, but i have found that when you meet people who you become friends with/go out with, that they value your friendship even more because your a good, nice guy.

What he said...

[Gungalley]

Yes there is. Whilst us good guys may go unappreciated sometimes in real life, i would not change being a good guy because of that. Whilst some may not appreciate all the effort that goes into being a good guy, others realise it, and value you because of who you are, for the very fact you are good. We may get the short end of the stick so to speak from time to time, but i have found that when you meet people who you become friends with/go out with, that they value your friendship even more because your a good, nice guy.

Well I'm losing faith in being good. (the really good kind) I'm being disillusioned.

[turtle]

Being good is about profit, one way or another. Whether it be personal/mental profit, profit from other people or profit from God/higher being, it is still some kind of profit.

Some people are good because they believe, by doing so, God/whoever will reward them in the after life.

Some people are good because they believe by doing so, other people will see this and do good to them.

Some people are good because they believe, by doing so, they are serving the world/community in a good/productive way and this, in turn, gives them a feeling of self gratification.

So, when someone is being good, it is about profit and profit alone. I'm not saying profit is bad, it just depends upon the kind of profit and why that profit was sought out.

[Tom Paine]

Being good is about profit, one way or another. Whether it be personal/mental profit, profit from other people or profit from God/higher being, it is still some kind of profit.

Some people are good because they believe, by doing so, God/whoever will reward them in the after life.

Some people are good because they believe by doing so, other people will see this and do good to them.

Some people are good because they believe, by doing so, they are serving the world/community in a good/productive way and this, in turn, gives them a feeling of self gratification.

So, when someone is being good, it is about profit and profit alone. I'm not saying profit is bad, it just depends upon the kind of profit and why that profit was sought out.

Illogical. Two of your examples work, the third does not, neccessarily; this feeling of self-gratification is not why it is done, as you say. Rather it comes from a belief in actually doing good. One could easily apply the feeling of self-gratification to all forms of good, by the by...

[turtle]

Illogical. Two of your examples work, the third does not, neccessarily; this feeling of self-gratification is not why it is done, as you say. Rather it comes from a belief in actually doing good. One could easily apply the feeling of self-gratification to all forms of good, by the by...

Actually, I still disagree. Sure the person may not have concously done that specific good for the self-gratification, but they did it for it none-the-less.

When someone does good, they most definately do do it from a belief in actaully doing good. They do good things because of this belief, yes. So, they are doing good things, because it makes them feel good, because their social upbringing tells them to feel good when they do good. They know what they are doing is good and this makes them feel good. Would they do good things, if they made them feel bad or pain... I doubt it, unless they had a strong sense of what is good and had the mental power to overcome such feelings.

So, I still think that people do good for their own self-gratification. Whether they do it conciously or not, they are still doing it for that end.

[Juggernaut]

Is there? I dont mean you should be evil but is there a point to going out of your way to be a good person? To care abt other ppl's feelings (even those not impt to you), to love and help your enemies etc... Seems like good guys often get unappreciated IRL and often get the short end of the stick.

It gives you a sense of superiority and it is often expedient.

[Siblesz]

Pity is not a virtue. That said, there is no reason why you can't be good to other people; if not for other people's sake, then for your own sake. But remember, when the balance between doing good and going out of your way to be good has been tipped, then stop before pity becomes a weakness and you lie hurt on the dirt.

[shenmueguru]

Well, yea, you can say everyone will die and in the long run, it won't matter. But hey, we have lives here people. We have feelings. So do others. Don't go all philosophical on this principle. Of course, being good is one of the pillars of the faith, and we must strive for this everyday. However, one of the main reasons for doing good is the fact that we're on this earth with other people. Helping others, be it holding a door or donating to charity, is good in it's truest form. You'll get a supplementary feeling as well, I hope. Just remember that people have feelings too (I know I sound elementary, but it should still be reenforced) and doing good will positively affect the world.

[Gungalley]

Pity is not a virtue. That said, there is no reason why you can't be good to other people; if not for other people's sake, then for your own sake. But remember, when the balance between doing good and going out of your way to be good has been tipped, then stop before pity becomes a weakness and you lie hurt on the dirt.

Sry didn't quite get the part of your post. Did you mean feeling pity for others?

Well, yea, you can say everyone will die and in the long run, it won't matter. But hey, we have lives here people. We have feelings. So do others. Don't go all philosophical on this principle. Of course, being good is one of the pillars of the faith, and we must strive for this everyday. However, one of the main reasons for doing good is the fact that we're on this earth with other people. Helping others, be it holding a door or donating to charity, is good in it's truest form. You'll get a supplementary feeling as well, I hope. Just remember that people have feelings too (I know I sound elementary, but it should still be reenforced) and doing good will positively affect the world.

Sry i dunno how to multi quote. What about bad people who don't give a **** about the feelings of others and trample over good people? Do you still love thy enemy in this case cos they are afterall, human?

[Ronin]

Those that are evil in general look out for themselves and have no regard for other life. The human body is a frail thing. Our bones can break and our organs can fail, our life can be whisked away any single second. Those who lives only to further themselves are fools. They will die and lose their wealth and happiness. They will have achieved nothing with their lives.

Those that are good do what is right, what is just. Because doing what is right often goes against our instinct of self-preservation the people who try to generally do the right thing often do not end up as comfortable as those willing to submit to the temptation of wrong doing. At first glance it appears that the "good" people in the world are getting a rough deal. The truth is people who stand up for what's right are part of something bigger than life. They are part of something that is eternal. They are part of something worth fighting for, worth sacrificing for. They are part of some intangible concept.

Instead of trying to explain an intangible concept I will use in example to hopefully make my opinion more understandable.

On your way home you see a homeless man attacked by a group of young men. He is beaten to the ground and you hear him yell for help. You are instantly pulled by two basic instincts. The first instinct tells you to countinue on your way to your comfortable home and attractive new wife. This is the instinct of self preservation. The second instinct is to help the homeless man. To attack the pack of young men knowing that you have little chance of fighting them all off. In fact if you choose to help the homeless man you will probably be beaten, robbed and lucky to not be killed.

I don't know of one person who would not consider (even for a second) helping the homeless man. This intangible pull is often referred to as "The Greater Good". You are still as vulnerable as any other person if you choose to try to do the right thing, maybe even more so. But even if you are humiliated or even killed can anyone destroy the beautiful and amazing intangible variable in your being that helped you act against basic human instinct and put your life on the line for a complete stranger? That which lives within you lives forever.

They can humiliate you, they can kill you, they can never destroy everything you stand for and everything you are.