The "Mexican Problem"

[lawngnome]

I come to you asking your opinions... how should the flow of Mexican immigrants be controlled, if at all, in the American southwest?

I'm interested in the opinions of those living outside the U.S. as well... I don't know how much you know about the situation, but I hope I can provide the necessary details...

For those of you who are Americans... you know the issues. You may live far away from the border, but you can still feel the effects. Hispanics (which includes Guatemalans, Venezuelans, etc. as well) now outnumber Blacks in our country, and are growing rapidly compared to other racial groups. The "problem" is only multiplied by the fact that many of these Hispanics know little to no English.

Those Mexicans are "taking our jobs" (you know, those high-quality Taco Bell, roofing, landscaping, and Wal-Mart jobs) and not... speaking English...

Never fear! For along the border with Mexico a great wall will be erected... the Great Wall of America. It will keep those Mexicans at bay. They won't bring their pesos or tacos north of the border anymore.

Recently the state of Arizona passed a law that makes English the official language. This makes Arizona the first state in the U.S. to have an official language (to my knowledge). Does this scare anyone else?

Here is my situation:

I live in San Antonio, Texas. In a city of 1.2 million in which approximately 550,000 residents are Hispanic. Over 500,000 of those are Mexican. This doesn't count the estimated 50,000 or so illegal immigrants that reside in the area. Oh, and all of those illegal immigrants are terrorists. That's why the wall is being built! To keep out the terrorists!

When I had my house built, the entire construction crew was Mexican. This is no exaggeration... I could only communicate with the crew through talking to their supervisor, who was the only person on the crew that could speak (broken) English. The fact is that illegal Mexicans provide cheap labor (below minimum wage since it is off the books) and we just look the other way.

20% of published media in this region is in Spanish (a figure that is quite new).

How do I feel?

I am making an attempt to learn Spanish... it's just necessary in this city. I don't think "they" should have to learn English to be here... but the fact is the vast majority of them try very hard to adapt once they are here.

In addition, we can't expect much help from the Mexican government... they haven't been too happy with us ever since that whole Mexican-American war thing over a century ago. The only major issue I see with our border is the illegal drug trade... it accounts for so much violence in the southwest that it is outrageous.

It is a problem... a serious one... that several million illegal Mexicans reside within our borders. Why? They are easily taken advantage of are not afforded the same protections as the rest of us. They can be sold into what is essentially slavery (much like the oft-discussed Russian prostitutes of the Eastern U.S.) and have no rights.

Then again, many Mexicans that come to the U.S. just do so to make money that they send straight back to their families in Mexico. But hey, this drains the U.S. economy! All that currency leaving our borders! When they feel they've had a good go at it, they will return to their families.

A wall will not solve our problems... making English our official language is absurd... what are we to do? Offer legalization to everyone in the country?

[D-Rock]

It is not just a Drug-smuggling problem. In a LA Times editorial it was estimated that for every ONE working illiegal, 2.5 DO NOT WORK. usually small childeren and wives. That may not seem to bad except that the healthcare for all of those childeren and wives, who do not provide a service by working, still get free healt-care (which cost the US hospitals 68.5 billion dollars a year. I work in the health care profession and I live in Oklahoma not a border state and we do over a million dollars/year in free testing, procedures(usually pregnancy related), access to public schools (which by the way are already failing and now are burdened with a language barrier whichs requires a paid translator. And since we know our schools can't afford text books, translators and literature in foreign langues sure look like a economic burden), and wellfare (by the way a great Liberal tragedy of the twenth century ie. I can't pay my bills because I don't want to work. I'll just make the gov't (taxpayers) pay for it.) and wellfare includes car-seats (free at all DHS offices), food subsidies (commods given at all DHS offices), and WIC assistance (Baby stuff-milk, diappers, formula, cheese etc..). Now about English, I do not mind if someone speaks a foreign language, but people come to America because it is America not because it is Mexico, Venezuela, Guatamala, or wherever. That means they want come and enjoy our freedoms and oppurtunity, but they must realize that our culture is our culture not theirs (they left that for a reason) and to come into our country and expect us to conform to their way of life and mold our laws for them is plain dis-respectful. I have no problem with legal immigration, but get a health check, register your name and place of origins and start paying taxes (on their own Social Security #, because you do know that many steal the identity of citizens to fraudulize our employers).

[Erik]

That may not seem to bad except that the healthcare for all of those childeren and wives, who do not provide a service by working, still get free healt-care (which cost the US hospitals 68.5 billion dollars a year.

What kind of free health-care do they get?
Because in my country illegals only get very basic emergency health-care, everything else they have to pay for themselves.

access to public schools

How can they get access to public schools of they are illegal?
Again, I don't think illegals can go to school in my country, or at least schools won't receive any tax money for educating them (maybe if they pay for it themselves they can make a deal).

Maybe the problem is that America treats it's illegals too well?

[Big War Bird]

What kind of free health-care do they get?
Because in my country illegals only get very basic emergency health-care, everything else they have to pay for themselves.



How can they get access to public schools of they are illegal?
Again, I don't think illegals can go to school in my country, or at least schools won't receive any tax money for educating them (maybe if they pay for it themselves they can make a deal).

Maybe the problem is that America treats it's illegals too well?

Yes we treat illegals too well. Rarely is proof of citizenship or legal residency ever required to obtain government services such as welfare or education. Even when it is required it is easy enough to acquire phoony documentation that will never be properly examined any way.

Even when arrested for a crime, an illegal can usually expect to never have his status checked for several reasons.
1. There is no simple way for law enforcement to check this and police don't want to bother trying.
2. It is not local police responsibility to arrest illegals
3. Some cities have passed laws to forbid its police from checking residency or from reporting an illegal to the proper federal authority.

[danzig]

Maybe the problem is that America treats it's illegals too well?

To a certain extent that is true, the guilt factor of it. Unfortunately anytime you question why are illegals able to take advantage of services provided in the US you have people run out and scream racism clouding the entire issue. For the most part we are expected to just accept it happening otherwise we are "bad" people.

[vikrant]

establish the same relationship with mexico which u guys have with canada ....

[lawngnome]

establish the same relationship with mexico which u guys have with canada ....

Well, you're missing a few key points here...

1) Canadians do not enter the US illegally en masse because they share our quality of life.
2) Canadians speak English by and large.
3) The US has had healthy relations with Canada for-ev-er.
4) We have already tried (NAFTA).
5) The closest thing to a drug trade coming out of Canada is marijuana.

[Tabell]

Nation of immigrants, and theyre doing the jobs most of you dont want. Why should english be your main language? It's not like the majority of you came from england anyway.

[LoZz]

build a big wall, like what they are doing in the west bank, in the long run it will save you money as you wont need all these patrols and helicopters and its not as personal or as messy, they just cant get in

[Erik]

build a big wall, like what they are doing in the west bank, in the long run it will save you money as you wont need all these patrols and helicopters and its not as personal or as messy, they just cant get in

No wall can hold back Mexicans forever, they are like Mongolians.
You will always need patrols just to check nobody is sapping the wall or trying to go over it with ladders.

But I think a combination of a fence/wall, video surveillance and patrols can hold back all but a few illegals.
It worked for Eastern Germany, didn't it? (they tried to prevent their people from leaving, but that's the same kind of challenge).

Another great tool will be motes.
The US army is already planning to use motes as a (non-lethal) alternative to mines.
http://computer.howstuffworks.com/mote.htm
A few million solar powered motes equipped with GPS and microphones spread over the desert should be enough to track anyone who is approaching the boarder.

[vikrant]

i have heard the mexicans use boats also to cross the gulf of mexico ,no wall can stop that naval invasion.

[Erik]

i have heard the mexicans use boats also to cross the gulf of mexico ,no wall can stop that naval invasion.

But a fleet of coastguard patrol boats can.
They even have this technology called "radar" that allows them to spot those boats from hundreds of miles away.

[danzig]

i have heard the mexicans use boats also to cross the gulf of mexico ,no wall can stop that naval invasion.

Coast guard does fine with Cuba...regardless would make it much more difficult then simply running across a border which should be the objective making it not so easy to get into the country illegally.

no matter how advance the infrastructure is ,those Mexicans will always find loopholes and they will keep on coming .the solution is just to make immigration procedure easier for them so that they will immigrate legally .
i fail to understand why do Americans have such a attitude toward their southern neighbours ,any racial ,linguistic or other reasons
now i don't know why North American Free Trade Agreement dint work

No the solution is for Mexican goverment to take its head out of its ass and start pondering the reasons its citizens main priority is to flee where they were born. The problem is on the Mexican side not the American side. The 'attitude' as you put it is perfectly understandable, the US has laws and requirements for its citizenship and people are breaking those laws, the solution is NOT to make it easier for them to do so....hell half of Mexico would be in the US then and no country in the world could absorb such an influx of new people into the country and intergrate them properly. Illegal immigration is the fault of the home country of the people NOT the destination country and hence the solutions lie there. To put it simple and brutally its not our problem, our problem begins and ends in ensuring people who come into this country do so legally.

[Erik]

No the solution is for Mexican goverment to take its head out of its ass and start pondering the reasons its citizens main priority is to flee where they were born. The problem is on the Mexican side not the American side.

Agreed.
More specifically: Mexico has to stop being so poor.
Poverty is the root cause of this immigration, so poverty needs to end.

Does it scare anyone else that English was made the 'official' language of Arizona? Are there official languages in other countries? It's something we've always avoided, for the most part.

AFAIK America is the only country without an official language.
What's so bad/scary about having an official language?

[lawngnome]

Agreed.
More specifically: Mexico has to stop being so poor.
Poverty is the root cause of this immigration, so poverty needs to end.

Indeed. At the very least, it would help if Mexico stopped having revolutions all the time.

AFAIK America is the only country without an official language.
What's so bad/scary about having an official language?

The reason America doesn't have an official language is because of the fact that we are a nation of multi-cultural immigrants. Surely, I'm not asserting that Canada or Australia or Brazil are completely homogenous, but they didn't have the extent of immigration from varied regions that we did. In order to seem more welcoming to others, it has always been our theory to let them retain their own culture.

This goes back to the fact that language is the basis of culture. If we make English our official language, are we insisting on a single, superior, "American" culture? Is it necessary for a nation to have only one culture to maintain stability?

[ForgottenImmortal]

Hardline: Deport all the Mexicans back to Mexico and let them improve their standard of living by overthrowing their corrupt government and getting one that works.

Realistic Line: Legalize those inside the country, but stop those entering and fine the crap out of businesses who hire illegals.

The root of the entire Mexican problem is the corruption and inefficiency of Mexico. Mexico is the richest Latin nation in central America and has large amounts of oil, so the problem isn't wealth, the problem is distribution of wealth. America shouldn't be responsible for the entire poor class of Mexicans to give them a decent life, their own country can provide that, they just need to gut it out and clean it out. Combine that with the fact far too many Mexicans are involved in gangs and drugs for comfort (poor people of any color turn to organized crime and violence, this is not racist, its realist), and its outrageous to say we can have national security without borders.

Anybody who says we shouldn't wall off the border cause it's an affront to Mexico is also an idiot. Every nation has the right to affirm its national sovreignty and protect its borders. And Mexico's government is so shot to hell and back it hardly deserves much respect.

[Necromancer]

Agreed.
More specifically: Mexico has to stop being so poor.
Poverty is the root cause of this immigration, so poverty needs to end.

I agree 100%... the only problem, the Mexican goverment is SO corrupt, hell corrupt doesn't even BEGIN to describe it, they won't do anything about the issue because they're rich and they don't feel like giving up any money to improve the quality of life for the general public of Mexico. Also the goverment is real buddy-buddy with the mob syndicates, so if they keep their mouths shut, these mobs pay 'em cash by the truck-load. This is the ONLY problem, corruption... and it's causing problems on an international scale.

AFAIK America is the only country without an official language.
What's so bad/scary about having an official language?

THANK YOU!!! Oh my god, it seems like everyone is afraid of the U.S. having an official language. Some of the wackos out there actually want to change the U.S.'s language to SPANISH so we can understand what all of the Hispanics are saying! What the hell is up with these people??? We've been speaking English for the past three centuries... it's this country's main language, therefore it should be the OFFICIAL (Oh, no!) language of the United States.

I don't care if Hispanics are talking to each other in Spanish. But when I go up to them to ask them a question or engage them in a conversation they should at least have a basic grip of what I'm saying, and they should be able to reply in at least BASIC English!

[vikrant]

my point was not to discuss the technicalities of stopping the illegal

i dint know American costguards use such a advance technology called radar

immigration but the American attitude toward Mexican.
no matter how advance the infrastructure is ,those Mexicans will always find loopholes and they will keep on coming .the solution is just to make immigration procedure easier for them so that they will immigrate legally .
i fail to understand why do Americans have such a attitude toward their southern neighbours ,any racial ,linguistic or other reasons
now i don't know why North American Free Trade Agreement dint work
its just a third person opinion who shares problems of illegal/legal immigrants stealing there jobs and all that stuff .but building walls its not the answer

[lawngnome]

the solution is just to make immigration procedure easier for them so that they will immigrate legally .
i fail to understand why do Americans have such a attitude toward their southern neighbours ,any racial ,linguistic or other reasons

I can assure you that racism does not play a role in this debate. It may in isolated incidents, but by and large Hispanics are 'cool' in popular American culture... most current popular dance has Hispanic influences, many Americans get Mexican-influenced tatoos, many Americans vacation to Mexico, etc.

Would allowing them to immigrate legally really solve the problem? Are we prepared for 20+ million new citizens in a matter of weeks? I don't think we are. The fact is we're not talking about upper class or middle class Mexicans. We're talking about the lowest of the lows, the "dregs of society."

That's what the Irish gave us... and it worked out OK... even worked well, many would say... so what is the problem?

Our welfare system is stretched as it is, with the addition of millions of immigrants who would all be destitute, it would collapse. Furthermore, while America is built upon immigrants (half Slovakian, half French Canadian myself) there has never been a wave of immigration of this magnitude.

The Germans worked following the failed German revolution (1850's) because they were quick to assimilate, despite the initial language barrier. What we're seeing from Mexicans is a resistance to assimilation. Many Americans may be afraid of an alternate American culture within our borders that doesn't even speak our language.

In the end, it is the language thing that I think is the sorest subject for many. America has been dominated by English for well over 3 centuries now, to a degree seen in almost no other country in the world. If you look at the ancestry of our citizens, probably only 1/10 have roots in an English-speaking country. The other 9/10 were assimilated because of the strength of the English language here... it's quite remarkable. Now, finally, there is a legitimate second language... and Americans don't know how to react.

Does it scare anyone else that English was made the 'official' language of Arizona? Are there official languages in other countries? It's something we've always avoided, for the most part.

[RusskiSoldat]

Slap huge fines and jail sentences on people who hire illegals, do the "fence along the Mexican border" thing and give political recognition to the various groups trying to independently defend the border (so as to encourage them, and to make the heavily armed rednecks they consist of accountable to the US government).