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Thread: [Amendment] Pater's Civic Crown

  1. #61
    Iskar's Avatar Insanity with Dignity
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Pater's Civic Crown

    I'm German. Bread and butter has a very positive ring to my ears and sounds like the very essential foundation you simply must have for everything else to work.

    Besides, proposing 30 people for opifex may be a solid base for a Curial Service Award nomination.
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  2. #62
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Pater's Civic Crown

    This should not be a big medal to begin with, while if someone put foreward 5 or 10 none-citizens who got a large medal and in that way got citizenship, give that bloke this medal too, it's nothing to it.
    The point of this award should remain "You is an active crucible for members to become Citizens. Thank you, the Community appriciate and encourage that.". That in turn also saying, that how many someone proposed for any medal is completly irelevant for this award, as it concern members who gained citizenship through the effort of the nominated.
    There is no point in keeping it rare for its own sake, or exclude alternative ways to the same good end that this award is intended to celibrate.

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  3. #63
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Pater's Civic Crown

    Yes, it seems perfectly reasonable to include the proposals of Large Awards as well.
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  4. #64
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Pater's Civic Crown

    Why aren't people who've put in the effort and patronized however many people not just nominated for Curial Service Award?
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Pater's Civic Crown

    maybe because of the reasoning that goes with the award?

    Curia Service Award
    Awarded for serving the Curia with distinction for a period exceeding six months, as voted upon by the Curia.


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    Default Re: [Amendment] Pater's Civic Crown

    Assuming the 10 successful patronizations from the OP, it would be extremely unlikely that you get that in less than 6 months of being a citizen. As for the distinction, I'd say that successfully patronizing that many citizens would be serving with distinction. None of the words in the award exclude patronizations as being eligible for the award and anyone that's patronized that many people has likely done more. Also the wording makes it more flexible to deal with the new issue of awarding for starting the process of granting a large award.
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    Ngugi's Avatar TATW & Albion Local Mod
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Pater's Civic Crown

    I don't mind the suggestion Squid, but I do not think the "distinction" part is the issue, but that it seems unclear whether patronization actually is to consider as a 'Curia service', rather than a community and Citizenry service at large, merely conducted through the Curia.
    At a glance it would not seem like a Curia service to me, but that may simply be a limited or rigid POV, and I am positive to formulate a broader definition than so

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  8. #68
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Pater's Civic Crown

    Quote Originally Posted by Ngugi View Post
    I don't mind the suggestion Squid, but I do not think the "distinction" part is the issue, but that it seems unclear whether patronization actually is to consider as a 'Curia service', rather than a community and Citizenry service at large, merely conducted through the Curia.
    At a glance it would not seem like a Curia service to me, but that may simply be a limited or rigid POV, and I am positive to formulate a broader definition than so
    Exactly my view about


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  9. #69
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Pater's Civic Crown

    Quote Originally Posted by Ngugi View Post
    I don't mind the suggestion Squid, but I do not think the "distinction" part is the issue, but that it seems unclear whether patronization actually is to consider as a 'Curia service', rather than a community and Citizenry service at large, merely conducted through the Curia.
    At a glance it would not seem like a Curia service to me, but that may simply be a limited or rigid POV, and I am positive to formulate a broader definition than so
    Given the curia doesn't exist without citizens and there's a natural loss of members over time. Bringing in new blood through citizenship or large awards vitally important and doing a lot of it is certainly worth if distinction.
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  10. #70
    Genius of the Restoration's Avatar You beaut and magical
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Pater's Civic Crown

    Just a point, patronising members has been used to propose citizens for the Service Award in the past. See Mega's and Aikanar's proposals for instance. If you don't think it counts as service, then that's up to you, but it definitely has been seen as service before.

  11. #71
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Pater's Civic Crown

    Well, it has been part of the justification as well as other "civic duties" (e.g. proposals, participation, etc). If the award involves more than just "service" perhaps it is misnamed. Good Citizenship Award may be a more appropriate title???
    TBH, in those above mentioned proposals, I voted in favor based on their service (Curial office positions) and not the other stuff. I cannot speak for anyone else.
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  12. #72
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Pater's Civic Crown

    Quote Originally Posted by Squid View Post
    Given the curia doesn't exist without citizens and there's a natural loss of members over time. Bringing in new blood through citizenship or large awards vitally important and doing a lot of it is certainly worth if distinction.
    Quote Originally Posted by Genius of the Restoration View Post
    Just a point, patronising members has been used to propose citizens for the Service Award in the past. See Mega's and Aikanar's proposals for instance. If you don't think it counts as service, then that's up to you, but it definitely has been seen as service before.
    Haha, now you sounds pushy GotR
    I don't at all oppose the interpetation of patronization as a Curial service, but I am perfectly honest with that it surprise me that the CSA has been used to this end. After it has been presented and argued for I can get the logic, but I was surprised because there is nothing natural from the awards name or description implying it should go to good patrons.

    To Curators or the assistants, to Magistrates or Censores, ye ol' CdeC (who had another one instead, but could to had the CSA, really) or CAT members, or citizens who just been active and constructive in discussing in or activate the Curia? Yes spot on!
    But not spontaneously also to those who helped members to become Citizens. Because while it may be of benefit for the Curia (here thought of as the institution) I see that more as a side effect of the benfit to the site members and citizenry (as persons and the community beyond the Curia) from succesful patronizations.
    In that light a rebranding as Pike' is on to may have merit, while a tweaked description may do just as well.

    So, yes, I can be onboard with a CSA solution. The Curia is where we citizens hand out this award, for an activity conducted in the Curia, and new Citizen may be of benefit to the Curia (with luck).
    What I, after considerations, however is concerned about, with such a solution, is that it is not "automated". The CSA requires a presentation and argumentation, it becomes more of a subjective matter, and I truely prefered it to be more mechanic. "He have 5 succeful patronizations? Medal! Done."
    Not becoming a matter of evaluation and debate. "He have 5 succeful patronizations. Medal!" "But last time we gave the award the nominated had 8 succeful patronizations." "Are these of better quality?" etc. We just seems to get a bit more relaxed with awards, and citizenships, from the Richter magnitude scale-mentality that existed before (everyone do not have had to invented the bloody wheel again, haha), and for an award like this I deem it highly desirable to not make it a polemic matter.

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  13. #73
    Iskar's Avatar Insanity with Dignity
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Pater's Civic Crown

    In fact, I find the reasoning to use the CSA (not those with Lee) for this purpose to be quite appealing. A simple renaming to "Community Service Award" could resolve the perceived restriction to pure Curial service in offices or discussions.
    Last edited by Iskar; March 20, 2016 at 10:59 AM.
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  14. #74
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Pater's Civic Crown

    I would rather keep the Curial Service Awards as is. Creating a Patronization award as the OP attempts to do would be infinitely better. Having "x" number patronages ensures that the person doing it actually gets recognition. As things are right now, the Curia does, at best, an inconsistent job of recognizing people for services to the community. For example, I would love for their to be an intermediate award between citizenship and the large awards; however, many members (and in some cases, never) are not recognized and patronized.
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  15. #75
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Pater's Civic Crown

    Quote Originally Posted by PikeStance
    I would rather keep the Curial Service Awards as is. Creating a Patronization award as the OP attempts to do would be infinitely better. Having "x" number patronages ensures that the person doing it actually gets recognition. As things are right now, the Curia does, at best, an inconsistent job of recognizing people for services to the community.
    Concur.

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    Default Re: [Amendment] Pater's Civic Crown

    I like this idea. You have my support.

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    Default Re: [Amendment] Pater's Civic Crown

    I was just thinking,... so just to think out loud here....
    A different system to ponder
    For patronizing and successfully proposing for large awards 8* members= Medium award
    For patronizing and successfully for large awards 18* members = Patrician Badge
    I do not envision the badge being anything but a prestige thing. You get a support from a Patrician, then that may carry some weight in the vote. I did consider allowing Patricians to share their thoughts in referral, but keeping the voting for elected Censors. In either case, the badge is a prestige thing.

    * The number can be any combination (e.g. 2 Patronages and 6 large awards = 5 Patronages and 3 large awards)
    Last edited by PikeStance; March 23, 2016 at 05:20 AM.
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  18. #78
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Pater's Civic Crown



    You suggest a patrician badge as a mere prestige thing, suggest one additional privilege, suggest another additional privilege and reassert that it is really only for prestige?

    Sorry, no.

    Either use the CSA for this or introduce the suggested Civic Crown.

    Regarding the first option, I would like to remind people that part of Aik's nomination were the plethora of proposals made by him. A nomination is a proposal.
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Pater's Civic Crown

    Quote Originally Posted by Iskar View Post


    You suggest a patrician badge as a mere prestige thing, suggest one additional privilege, suggest another additional privilege and reassert that it is really only for prestige?
    Its a brainstorm, but ok... no need for it. I am cool with just a badge thingy. It is idea to resolve the concepts discussed here.
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  20. #80
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Pater's Civic Crown

    So what is the update on this one? Just curious...:
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