The Ultimate Stack Thread...

[ScrapTower]

By "Ultimate Stack" I mean your idea of the best possible configuration of units to field against ANY given army. I am not talking about stacks to counter other stacks, and Im not talking about economical armies. IMO multiplayer is the best test of your ultimate stack because you never know the makeup of the enemy army.A good human player will provide a better challange and exploit any weekness in your army/strat much better then the AI will. Please list your army makeup, reasons why, and any weekness/strengths it may have. I'll start with my idea of the English ultimate stack...

The English Ultimate Stack:

1 Generals Body Guard
6 units of Armored Swordsmen
6 units of Retinue Archers
7 units of Templar/Hospitaller Knights
(optionally reaplace any two units with art)

Armored Swordsmen have the highest defencive value out of all the English infantry units. I interprete the defensive value to mean "ability to HOLD the line" and the offensive value to mean "ability to CHOP UP the enemy line". I would replace two units of swordsmen with Dismounted English Knights but at the moment they are bugged.6 swords will hold the line plenty long even when outnumbered or out matched.

Retinue Archers provide a great stake wall when on the defensive. I find that 6 is just enough to ensure you are never out bowed. Against an army of all Horse Archers, your infanty and hevay cavalry are nearly useless as they cannot catch the Horse Archers. With 6 Retinue Archers you can form a provtective stake pocket around your entire army and make them come to you.

Templar/Hospitaller Knights are the best heavy cav you can field as the English, and nearly nullify the English cavalry weekness. 8 is just enough to ensure you are never out caved, and more then enough to flank and decimate an infantry heavy army.

[DavidtheDuke]

Yes I agree with all that and that's why I think the knight orders shouldn't be available in custom, as it almost nullify superior horsemen like Lancers and Gothic Knights

[KIllerGecko]

Wahh! no spear men? what are you going to do if their army is is all heavy cavalry? they will wipe the floor w/ your swords men, chase down your archers and utterly annihilate your 6 units of heavy Cav But, thats just speculation

[DavidtheDuke]

Wahh! no spear men? what are you going to do if their army is is all heavy cavalry? they will wipe the floor w/ your swords men, chase down your archers and utterly annihilate your 6 units of heavy Cav But, thats just speculation

I guess you two should meet each other outside

[Cadmium77]

I'd as soon go to battle without at least 4 units of stout spearmen, as go naked to the mall to buy my next computer game at EB.

[Preskinn]

I don't know about you guys, but I have found that the swordmen can hold pretty well against cavalry...

Allso, the two units of dismounted knights was for that purpose, right?

Anyway, you guys are forgetting the Long Bow Men have stakes!
If a army is made out of only heavy cavalry this is the equation:

20 Units Heavy Cavalry
vs
7 Units of Templar/Hospitaller Knights = 13 units of Heavy Cavalry left.

13 Units Heavy Cavalry vs 6 stakes AND 6 Rutine Bowmen AND 6 Armored Swordsmen AND 1 General = 0 Heavy Cavalry left.


Me and my friend used to give eachother questions like this when we where traveling through europe by train this summer. Then we battled it out with 20 rocks each, on the trainstation in Slovenia It was great!
Try it! We took turns, estimated speeds, range, and argued alot...

I usualy end up with a balanced allround army. Never any of the "all horse archers" armys

1 General
4 Armored Billmen
5 Armored Swordmen
6 Reutine Long Bowmen
4 Heavy Cavalry

When you put a maximun cost on it, I end up with the same types of units, just cheaper ones, I E Spearmen, peasant archers, swordmen, Hobilars...

My friend created a nice army concisting of

1/4 Galowglaches (sp!) (Chargevalue)
1/4 Peasant Archers (just to be able to "control the enemy")
1/2 Decent Spearmen (not peasants)

This army was created under strikt money limits, he pounds down all the money into the Glowglaches (sp), arguing that they can rout just about anyone at the same monetary limit/scale as himself. If one cannot, it means the opponents troops are to elite, but then they are expensive, and he can easily outnumber them with all his cheap spearmen and archers combined with the Galowglaches (who are not THAT expensve, at least not acording to our estimates) (sp).

Since his army is all about charging down the opponents army, the archers may seem useless, but his simple plan was to "control the enemy" with them. He intended to put all archers on one flank, fire at the flanked oponent in order to make him face the archers, if he wouldn't, he would just continue, i they did, he would flank them again. He repeats this move until he finds a gap in the opponents defence, or until he has no ammo. Of course this dosn't work well on army with a lot of Heavy cavalry, but the archers are expendible, they are only there to do as much damage as they can AND getting the grip of initiative in the battle. Allso, one cannot afford more than maybe a couple of Heavy Cavalry.
When you try to counter his army with the same funds... You'll find that it is very hard, especially if you do not know his stacks characteristics beforehand.

oops... long post. hope I'm not boring you guys

[Ragss]

Something like:

Bodyguard x1
Saracen Militia x2
Ottoman Infatry x5
Jannisary Heavy Infantry x6
Qappakulu x6

[Preskinn]

I'm not used to those units. But That sounds prety Heavy Duty.

Can you write a explanation of your strategy? And some on the units maybe?

[Remo]

Its allways smart to have at least 3 units of spearmen.

Mine usually goes something like this

1 - Generals Bodyguard
4 - Dismounted Dvor
4(6) - Dismounted Boyar Sons
3 - Spearmen (I allways upgrade their armor)
4 - Tsars Guard
2 - Mounted Boyar Sons
(4) - Artillery

If i'm not using Artillery i'll usually add to my Boyar sons, hence the (6). I cant play without my favorite infantry chasers...THE BOYAR SONS!!!!

[Endeav]

Ultimate stack for me would be (Holy Roman Empire)

1 - General's Bodyguard
6 - Landskecht
4 - Gothic Knight
4 - Reiter
2 - Serpentine
3 - Pavise Crossbow


Swordsmen hold a line fine against other infantry but head on charge from cavalry = big hole in your line. I guess stakes as the English would counter that but that only applies for Turks and English, plus doesn't defeat the problem of being flanked by them. In my setup the Landsnecht make up the main battle lin, immune to cavalry from the front. Plus, as pikes in spearwall, they are a tough nut to crack for any type of infantry. Reiters are the heavy punch, as they will cause a quick break (gunpoweder) and heavy casualties, plus they have some excellent melee. Reiters are awesome as anti-archer units as well. They absolutely tear apart other horse archers. They might not be that quick but those shots hurt, and if they do make contact its GG for the horse archer, I don't think even Varadotai can outmelee Reiters. Gothic Knights for holding the flanks against enemy cavalry, it's really hard to out melee Gothic Knights cavalry vs cavalry. 3 Pavise Crossbows in the back for general purpose archery.

[harm]

1. all norse axeman

[Inhuman One]

I never played online yet and never will either I think. my computer wouldnt handle it so I stick with campaigns so far.

I usually have a general, a few archer or crossbow units, some heavy cavalry, 1 or 2 units of dismounted heavy infantry and the rest are spearmen.

armored sargeants can hold the line quite well and I usually place them behind the archers at the start, and the heavy infantry (usually knights) behind the spearmen.

First the archers take many men out while they run at mine and often its archers against archers. since archers cant be used much once the real melee battle begins I dont mind it that much if they get heavy losses as long as they inflict more damage than that they take.

Once either the ammo is gone or the enemy decides to charge I send the armored sargeants forward to attack their main line and send my heavy cavalry to the sides.

I send my knights to strong points in the enemies attacking army to help the spearmen and tip the balance. Their heavy cavalry is countered by the many spearmen I have and my own cavalry kills off their archers and then moves to attack the enemy infantry in the back.

When needed I send in my archers or crossbow units into melee to help out the infantry.

These tacktics usually work rather well. I managed to kill half an enemy army once with just 2 units of crossbowmen with upgraded armor when standing on a rather high hill. their army was bigger and had quite some ranged units too but they really were at a serious disadvantage down the hill.

They didnt dare to charge since everytime they did my crossbowmen inflicted heavy casualties on their army, they killed many knights with ease and they retreated to keep attacking me with ranged units.

[Nikko0102]

I'm playing the egyptians right now, and I'm having a hard time deciding on unitsw for my armies, any suggestions?

[Nidalap]

My choice(French):

1x General Bodyguard
6x Noble Knight
8x Scots gurad
3x Pikemen
2x Cavalry archer


No feudal/dismount knight as the Scots guard is just better even as a infantry unit(for the French).

Pikemen in case the enemy is cav heavy

The Noble Knights can flank enemy very effectively with their charge bonus
and the shield makes them tougher to beat.Cav Archers are just for distracting the enemy.(and do some extra damage)

[PooFoo]

OK here's my formation (works best on flat area).

First, cavalry for the flanks. Any heavy cavalry will do, perhaps if you're Poland or Spain get Jinetes/Polish Nobles as well.

The rest you fill up with pikemen and musketeers on a 2:1 ratio. Stretch out your musketeers all the way (2 ranks), and line up directly behind them 2 units of pikemen. Have the pikemen's spearwall fall directly on the musketeer line, so that you have a "barricade" of sorts. Set your musketeers to skirmish mode, and be sure to switch it off if the enemy closes in on you. The musketeers will keep the enemy back enough to ensure your pikemen wont switch to swords as much.

A good addition to this army would be a couple of heavy infantry units behind the pikemen in case the line starts to grow thin in any one place.

I've never lost with this.

[King_Azzole]

This army has yet to fail me:

1. Peasants
2. Peasants
3. Peasants
4. Peasants
5. Peasants
6. Peasants
7. Peasants
8. Peasants
9. Peasants
10. Peasants
11. Peasants
12. Peasants
13. Peasants
14. Peasants
15. Peasants
16. Peasants
17. Peasants
18. Peasants
19. Peasants
20. Generals Bodyguard

[Elephant Eyelash]

This army has yet to fail me:

1. Peasants
2. Peasants
3. Peasants
4. Peasants
5. Peasants
6. Peasants
7. Peasants
8. Peasants
9. Peasants
10. Peasants
11. Peasants
12. Peasants
13. Peasants
14. Peasants
15. Peasants
16. Peasants
17. Peasants
18. Peasants
19. Peasants
20. Generals Bodyguard

As for myself, I'm an artillery whore. Always have been with every Total War. I like to have about 5 units of heavy infantry, 5 units of crossbowmen/riflemen, 5 units of heavy artillery (preferably cannons ), and 5 units of cavalry. My technique is to keep my distance until my artillery is out of ammo, charge the center of the enemy's lines with my small force of infantry unified on one target, allow the enemy to encircle my infantry, then charge from all sides with my cavalry, flanking them 360 degrees.

[Salil]

all camel gunners.. they're awesome

[Preskinn]

I tried a battle with HRE online...
Man, I allmost got killed there, but my landknechts held firm in a small caos in the middle, my 2 units of reiters gave me victory! I love the rieters! killed at least 4 groups of enemy cavalry in that battle!