Converting camps to cities and nomadic factions to settled ones

[paulhewsoon1]

1) "mixed" is a region flag that means (I think) that the population is mixed between some settled in cities and some nomadic. Whatever its word origin, it's used to mark some settlements as camps that will convert. If a camp doesn't have this flag, then it will remain a camp as the region is not realistically convertible to an urban civilization in our timeframe. There is a list of which cities can convert in the first post of this thread.

Any known way to reverse it?

2) I'm afraid I don't have the building icons memorized enough to tell what level of farming you are at, but there are multiple tiers. Each of them slowly converts the culture away from nomadism, and when you get to certain steps you unlock the next farm building. The final farm building is available when no Nomadism culture is above 50%, and after it builds, then you unlock the 'convert to city' building. Most likely you still have > 50% nomadism in the province and can't build the final farm. This information is provided in the building description of each farm, at the end.

Here's some images from Palmyra, especifically its population stats

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Its agricultural buildings

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

And agricultural building browser (though it seems doesn't match)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

So what do u advice to do?

[QuintusSertorius]

There's nothing you can change about a game in progress. Editing the descr_regions, which contains the assignment of hidden_resources is not savegame compatible.

You need to reduce the level of Arid Nomadism below 60%. A high-Influence governor and time should do the trick.

[myarta]

Also, the Mid-Scale Farming building you have will convert your culture up to 45% of rel_d (I'm at work so I only have the 2.2r patch itself to look at, not the base descr_religion.txt). So your general will be converting your culture to Hellenic which will steal from the Nomadism to get its points, and your current farm building will steal from Nomadism as well to promote whatever rel_d is (something pastoralism I think?). Between the two, you will see your Nomadism fall below 60% (I misspoke earlier when I said 50%...it used to be that, but it was raised to 60% a long time ago), and then Large-Scale Farming will appear. You have 3% to go, so I'd estimate maybe 10-20 turns.

EDIT: If your Nomadism is below 60% (like says 59%) and Large Scale Farming doesn't show up, you might need to smash your herds building. (You can ONLY have Nomad Herds, not Warlord's Court or Livestock Herds).

[paulhewsoon1]

Also, the Mid-Scale Farming building you have will convert your culture up to 45% of rel_d (I'm at work so I only have the 2.2r patch itself to look at, not the base descr_religion.txt). So your general will be converting your culture to Hellenic which will steal from the Nomadism to get its points, and your current farm building will steal from Nomadism as well to promote whatever rel_d is (something pastoralism I think?). Between the two, you will see your Nomadism fall below 60% (I misspoke earlier when I said 50%...it used to be that, but it was raised to 60% a long time ago), and then Large-Scale Farming will appear. You have 3% to go, so I'd estimate maybe 10-20 turns.

EDIT: If your Nomadism is below 60% (like says 59%) and Large Scale Farming doesn't show up, you might need to smash your herds building. (You can ONLY have Nomad Herds, not Warlord's Court or Livestock Herds).

Well, guess it worked cause Palmyra is now a city

However I must admit it bothers me that it stays as military conquest as form of goverment. Basically no troops and almost no buildings. The same happens with Gerrha and the arab city on the Ormuz Strait. I'd like to get arab roster troops. Is there a way to advance on form of government?

P.D. The troops in Ankyra are limited too, how could i get a better troops roster for the celtics there (short of transforming it in a Client Kingdom?)

[QuintusSertorius]

The only way you're getting Arabian troops (anywhere bar Charakene) is with an Allied Government. That's too far outside the Seleukid's sphere of influence. Otherwise it's the regular Hellenisation (by polis and colony) and then move to a Hellenic or Supervised Hellenic Admin.

For Galatia, you get Galatians with a Native Administration. However, note many of the non-Celtic natives don't appear until the ThureosReform around turn 60, and you only get the upper tier of Celts. We've just changed the upgrade paths for Seleukid/Baktrian governments, but I think you can also build a Hyparchia there.

[paulhewsoon1]

The only way you're getting Arabian troops (anywhere bar Charakene) is with an Allied Government. That's too far outside the Seleukid's sphere of influence. Otherwise it's the regular Hellenisation (by polis and colony) and then move to a Hellenic or Supervised Hellenic Admin.

It's there any trigger for Hellenisation? Tadmur got its settler post but Gerrha and Mleiha are struggling, basically i can only get ships and spies. Totally exposed for arab brigands...

[QuintusSertorius]

It's there any trigger for Hellenisation? Tadmur got its settler post but Gerrha and Mleiha are struggling, basically i can only get ships and spies. Totally exposed for arab brigands...

Yes, building a Hellenistic Colony, which will convert to rel_h 30% as well as giving you some Hellenistic professionals. That will let you build a polis, if you want - giving you a range of Greeks, and also unlock the next tier of Colony, which converts up to 50%, making it possible to build the next tier of polis and so on. Only Tadmur is worthwhile putting a polis in, though, you'll only get a token pool in the other two.

Consider Native Colonies as an alternative means to get some decent units in Gerrha and Mleiha, though you won't be able to build one in an Allied Government.

[paulhewsoon1]

Yes, building a Hellenistic Colony

Which I've tried but cannot get

Consider Native Colonies as an alternative means to get some decent units in Gerrha and Mleiha, though you won't be able to build one in an Allied Government.

I've tried too, but I mean those buildings don't appear out of nowhere. That's why i was asking if there was a trigger for them to appear.

Let me show you those two cities now

[QuintusSertorius]

If I'm remembering the EDB before the latest set of adjustments, I think the problem is that both helcol and eastcol require farms, which you can't build in camps. So for those two, Allied Government is your only option.

[paulhewsoon1]

So this is Gerrha

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Mleiha

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

So no sign of greek poleis of settlement, nor the possibility to build them, what do i need to get them?

[paulhewsoon1]

Ok, it's understandble. I suppose i'll just remove my administration and create allied kingdoms and kings out of those arabs.

PD: Btw, this gigantus guy south of Yemen, is it wise if I engage diplomacy with him? won't the game crush for it?

[Colos1987]

I don't think you can actually land there. Either way, it is just a placeholder/easteregg, and will die out after a couple hundred turns

[QuintusSertorius]

You need 29% rel_h before you can build a polis, along with markets. You need colony points to start a new one, have you used them all up upgrading Hellenistic Colonies elsewhere? You get one every 16 turns for each Metropoleis, and for every 3 second tier polis buildings you have.

Leave Gigantus alone. Nothing good can come of engaging with him.

[paulhewsoon1]

You need 29% rel_h before you can build a polis, along with markets. You need colony points to start a new one, have you used them all up upgrading Hellenistic Colonies elsewhere? You get one every 16 turns for each Metropoleis, and for every 3 second tier polis buildings you have.

I had at least 4 of those over my whole campaign, but they appear random, it's no like i can direct them, they just pop up somewhere after some time. So what would u do in my case with Gerrha and Mheila, keep it as a conquest, put a good general there and wait for colonies to appear. Or leave and just transform them into Allied kingdoms.

Leave Gigantus alone. Nothing good can come of engaging with him.

Darn, wanted to do my Littlefinger schemes, a lot of money and not much to spend

[QuintusSertorius]

They're not random, when you have a colony point, every valid location is enabled, but as soon as you assign it by putting it on a queue (whether you build it or not - NEVER cancel them) the point is gone.

[paulhewsoon1]

They're not random, when you have a colony point, every valid location is enabled, but as soon as you assign it by putting it on a queue (whether you build it or not - NEVER cancel them) the point is gone.

Going to basics. How do i get a colony point. I suppose with a certain level (29% i red u said) of hellenistic population. I have never cancel them, but I only got them once a certain time, and only in one city at times. I don't remember having them in 2 cities at once. I've played Makedonia and there u had that chance (various cities with capabilty to build poleis or settler post).

So what would u advice, keep it a satrapy or transform it allied?

[QuintusSertorius]

Colony points are generated every Olympic year (ie every 16 turns) by owning a Hellenistic Metropoleis. Or three Hellenistic Poleis. Not the minor ones. You start with a Metropoleis in Antiocheia, so will have a point at the start of the game, and every 16th turn. To get any more than that, you either need to take some more, or upgrade Seleukeia, Sardeis and Edessa to the next level (needs higher rel_h and better markets).

When you have at least 29% rel_h in a settlement, with a market, and a colony point spare, you can establish a new Minor Hellenistic Poleis, which will give you a range of Greeks. Once established, you don't need any more colony points, just an increasing level of rel_h and better markets.

In any non-camp with a certain level of farms and a Stategic Fortifications present, you can build a Hellenistic Colony with a colony point. Each level of the helcol requires another colony point - you don't get phalanxes til level two (and not everywhere). It will fast-convert to the next level required for the next step of the polis.

You know you have colony points, because in every settlement where you can either build a new polis, or build/upgrade a helcol, they will appear in the building browser. They appear in every settlement that qualifies, until you assign it, then it disappears.

[paulhewsoon1]

Colony points are generated every Olympic year (ie every 16 turns) by owning a Hellenistic Metropoleis. Or three Hellenistic Poleis. Not the minor ones. You start with a Metropoleis in Antiocheia, so will have a point at the start of the game, and every 16th turn. To get any more than that, you either need to take some more, or upgrade Seleukeia, Sardeis and Edessa to the next level (needs higher rel_h and better markets).

When you have at least 29% rel_h in a settlement, with a market, and a colony point spare, you can establish a new Minor Hellenistic Poleis, which will give you a range of Greeks. Once established, you don't need any more colony points, just an increasing level of rel_h and better markets.

In any non-camp with a certain level of farms and a Stategic Fortifications present, you can build a Hellenistic Colony with a colony point. Each level of the helcol requires another colony point - you don't get phalanxes til level two (and not everywhere). It will fast-convert to the next level required for the next step of the polis.

You know you have colony points, because in every settlement where you can either build a new polis, or build/upgrade a helcol, they will appear in the building browser. They appear in every settlement that qualifies, until you assign it, then it disappears.

Well, to be fair I have cities in Persia with WAY over 29% of hell. polities but no sign of hellenistic setlements yet (Sousa, Ekbatana, Persepolis).

By the way, wjat kind of government is better; a supervised hellenistic admin. or a satrapy, hyparchy of the Seleukids?

[QuintusSertorius]

Sousa and Ekbatana both have Native Colonies, which are mutually exclusive with any form of Hellenisation. Persepolis should qualify for a new polis, as long as you have a colony point (it already has a helcol).

Better for what? If you're intending to Hellenise it, then Supervised Hellenic Admin (but it requires polis and colony). Otherwise Satrapy (but you can't build them anywhere, only in major centres).

[paulhewsoon1]

I just conquered Pella and Pergamon, and then Satrapies appaeared along with Supervised Hellenic. Adm. to build, so i checked the building roster and the supervised adm. seems above the satrapy or hyparchy.