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Thread: Converting camps to cities and nomadic factions to settled ones

  1. #1

    Default Converting camps to cities and nomadic factions to settled ones

    This guide is meant to help any player interested in the camp conversion mechanic, especially those who aren't familiar with it.

    First off, here are a collection of convertible camps that I know of, and the factions they pertain to:

    Pahlava/Saka: Nisaya, Bukharak, Chach, Oyrta and Shahr

    Sauromatae/KB: Paniardis, Skythiapolis and soon to be(I believe), the territory directly north of the Caucasus. Not sure if that will be added to the Pahlava/Saka convertible list, I'm guessing it won't be.

    Swebozes/Lugiones/Boii: Leufana, Luppae, Himbroburgz and Hleifpos

    Nabatu: Rekem, Tadmur.

    Numidians: Kirtan, Siga and Thugga.

    If anyone knows anymore, then feel free to chyme in, but these are all convertible. As you can see, convertible camps are faction specific, so don't expect to convert German camps if you're the Numidians.

    Secondly, why would you even want to convert camps? Or even want to play a nomadic faction which can transition to a settled faction? Why not just skip the work and play as a settled faction? Well, there are all sorts of benefits to camp conversion, including reforms tied to them, increased income in a settlement to settlement basis, more buildable structures and the potential for the construction of eastcols(only some factions get those) which will often greatly broaden your unit roster. More importantly, however, is that Nomadic factions which can convert camps and transition to settled factions have the potential to build much larger empires on average than other factions do, as the AI cannot convert camps(lamentably so). As the Romans or Carthaginians, Kirtan, Siga and Thugga will be camps forever, with incomes which can be useful, but never as large as they will be for the Numidians, once they convert these settlements and build a highway which stretches all across the northern reaches of Africa, from Lixus to Thugga(or maybe further if you've attacked the other 2 African based factions). That's something you never get to experience as the Romans or any faction in the game--only you can build those highways. Many of us have no doubt looked lamentably at the disconnected roads in settled areas which border on nomadic ones. If you capture A-E, Chach, Oyrta, Shahr and Kushi as Baktria, it's hard not to notice where the roads of kushi and A-E abruptly end at camp areas and thus are significantly more difficult to navigate. As the Saka or Pahlava, you can build a highway leading from Kushi and Chach across most of central Asia, a very cool feeling indeed. The governmental reforms of factions which transition from nomadic to settled are also extremely fun to install and vary quite a bit from faction to faction. Generally, as well, these reforms are excellent for building and maintaining large empires, which in some ways makes these nomadic factions which transition to settled almost more sophisticated in government than many of the Northern European tribes. Confederations drop authority points, but Satrapies and Royal satrapies do not, and are excellent forms of government which can be installed in MANY places(I was surprised that I could construct Satrapies at Rome, Arretium, Epidamnos and other areas as the Numidians, for example). Of course, this is not to say that Nomadic factions are better or more fun to play than Northern factions which don't have that level of freedom with direct governmental control(by design, because some are confederations). but only that building a larger empire is a bit easier as a transitioned faction which emulates Persian(Pahlava/Saka), Greek(nabatu) or other cultural government types.

    As far as I know, the Swebozes and Lugiones can convert camps, but their only reforms are time based, and do not fully transition to a settled people unlike some of the other factions. The Sauromatae get better at governing cities in their reforms, but I wouldn't say that they truly become settled, and their reforms aren't as sophisticated in nature as the Saka or Pahlava. The KB are already a settled faction, who just happens to have many nomadic ties, and can more easily convert steppe peoples to settled forms of life(so far as I know).

    Well, if you've read this far you're probably interested in just how the hell you do convert camps. This is done by building sedentary farming buildings in the camps which are convertible. Higher tiers of nomadic herds and farming are mutually exclusive, but just having the elite herds building(most basic nomadic herds) will allow you to build up to large-scale farming, which will in turn unlock the conversion building. Remember! This only applies to nomadic factions! I remember back in the days of 2.01, I tried destroying all the herds in Asanka, Lugidunon, Kalisia, Scurgum and Waldawa, as I'd read on the forums that to convert camps to cities you needed to destroy herds and build farms...Well, turns out you can't build farms in those areas anyway and since the Boii can't build the herds building, I just ended up hurting my population growth there. If you conquer somewhere where farms can't be built, keep the herds buildings there for increased income and pop growth, as you can't rebuild it.

    It isn't usually as simple as just building the farms step by step though. Typically, these farms slowly lower nomadic cultures over time, up to a certain percentage, at which point the next tier of farm building should be unlocked. Slowly progress through the farm buildings until you reach the large farms, and after that is built you will be able to construct the 12 turn 6000 minai camp conversion structure, which permanently converts a camp to a settlement. For some factions, just converting a few camps will trigger a reform(for example, the Numidians), and most of the reforms for these nomadic factions which can transition to settled involve camp conversion. It usually takes a whole lot of turns to become a settled faction (somewhere in the vicinity of 200 turns for the Numidians and Saka), but trust me, they are very well worth it and will add a whole layer of depth to a campaign you might even be slightly bored with(it REALLY spiced up my Numidian campaign). I highly recommend playing as one of these transitional factions if you haven't, as their reforms are very rewarding. Most of these reforms involve a culture switch(or several), but at least one of these do not change culture(eg. Numidians), but the nomadic farms typically lower nomadism in a settlement until conversion is possible.

    EDIT: You can generally tell whether a camp has the mixed resource by the province's relatively geography. Compare the amount of farmland, greenery and water in the environs of Thugga to that of Garama or Tuat, those places are much drier and more suited to a nomadic way of life, as well as not having significant enough numbers in population to become settlements(another big thing). You can see Cimbrodunon, Luppae and Leufana all have a bit of farmland near them, contrast this again with the Baltic areas which are heavily forested with but few visible farmland on the map, as well as not having significant enough populations to become settlements at this point in history.

    If I think of anything else to add, I will, or if someone else would like to chyme in, feel free! I hope this guide has been helpful!
    Last edited by Genghis Skahn; July 01, 2016 at 11:23 AM.

  2. #2
    QuintusSertorius's Avatar EBII Hod Carrier
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    Default Re: Converting camps to cities and nomadic factions to settled ones

    Uspe is indeed convertible as of 2.2, and you could consider Klepidava an already-converted camp.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Converting camps to cities and nomadic factions to settled ones

    Tadmor/Palmyra should convertible as well, unless it's missing the required hidden_resource.


  4. #4
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    Default Re: Converting camps to cities and nomadic factions to settled ones

    So can I convert Asanka into a city with the Getai? If yes, how?

  5. #5

    Default Re: Converting camps to cities and nomadic factions to settled ones

    No, you can't. The Getai are a settled faction that can't convert. As mentioned above, there is a list of convertible camps with associated faction. In order to convert any camp as any faction, you must edit your game files to be able to convert camps like Asanka. Otherwise, in the base mod, the team doesn't intend for settled factions(other than the KB) to convert camps. The camps mentioned in the OP and by QS and Moros are the only ones you can convert in the base game without file editing, and even then only certain camps for certain factions.

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    Default Re: Converting camps to cities and nomadic factions to settled ones

    Good to know. Thanks.

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    Default Re: Converting camps to cities and nomadic factions to settled ones

    So as Pahlava, should I be destroying well-developed herds to "unlock" farms? Because currently, I have provinces that have small farms but no new farms are popping up and population have stagnated.
    "Therefore I am not in favour of raising any dogmatic banner. On the contrary, we must try to help the dogmatists to clarify their propositions for themselves. Thus, communism, in particular, is a dogmatic abstraction; in which connection, however, I am not thinking of some imaginary and possible communism, but actually existing communism as taught by Cabet, Dézamy, Weitling, etc. This communism is itself only a special expression of the humanistic principle, an expression which is still infected by its antithesis – the private system. Hence the abolition of private property and communism are by no means identical, and it is not accidental but inevitable that communism has seen other socialist doctrines – such as those of Fourier, Proudhon, etc. – arising to confront it because it is itself only a special, one-sided realisation of the socialist principle."
    Marx to A.Ruge

  8. #8

    Default Re: Converting camps to cities and nomadic factions to settled ones

    Yeah, they're mutually exclusive. Anything past elite herds/nomad herds, the L1 version of the nomad herds building conflicts with another farm building tier. It's fine to leave a higher herd building there for a while, if a preconstructed one is there(eg. at chach for saka), so long as you don't meet the culture/city requirement to build that farm level it's fine to leave it...But anything past L1 is gonna have to be destroyed at some point, because otherwise that blocks the final farm level.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Converting camps to cities and nomadic factions to settled ones

    I've got a question about this, I'm playing a Baktria Campaign and since I read this I refrained from taking the camps and let them be controlled by Saka/Pahlava.
    Im nearing 200 turns and with spy's I was watching if they were building the farms and kept an eye on Culture change. Since i don't see them building them,
    Does the AI eventually build these farms and make them into town? And I own the 2 camps Oyrta and Shahr and building the farms there myself. If i gift them to either Saka or Pahlava would they turn them into towns if I've build the hightest possible farm? Thanks

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Converting camps to cities and nomadic factions to settled ones

    Quote Originally Posted by Snorfiets View Post
    I've got a question about this, I'm playing a Baktria Campaign and since I read this I refrained from taking the camps and let them be controlled by Saka/Pahlava.
    Im nearing 200 turns and with spy's I was watching if they were building the farms and kept an eye on Culture change. Since i don't see them building them,
    Does the AI eventually build these farms and make them into town? And I own the 2 camps Oyrta and Shahr and building the farms there myself. If i gift them to either Saka or Pahlava would they turn them into towns if I've build the hightest possible farm? Thanks
    No, you can't rely on the AI to convert for you. I don't think it "knows" how to.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Converting camps to cities and nomadic factions to settled ones

    Ok, good to know.
    Might I ask what is the reasoning behind it that settled factions are not allowed to convert camps into city's? I can imagine some "camps" in this timeframe never became city's and they stayed nomadic during this time, but I think the same can be said about some "camps" were made into permanent bases or atleast tried to by rulers (since it's alternate history anyways why not?).
    I figured out how i can contruct the building with Baktria (or any other faction) with changing the files. It's just a shame I need to start a new campaign with it to actually make it work, but before i do that i'd like to know why in this mod it's the way it is.
    Thanks

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Converting camps to cities and nomadic factions to settled ones

    It's to do with factions having an affinity with nomads. You can't force them to stay in a converted settlement and become urbanised people, so only those factions with a strong enough connection can do so.

    We've just added Getai to that list.

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    Default Re: Converting camps to cities and nomadic factions to settled ones

    Quote Originally Posted by QuintusSertorius View Post
    It's to do with factions having an affinity with nomads. You can't force them to stay in a converted settlement and become urbanised people, so only those factions with a strong enough connection can do so.

    We've just added Getai to that list.
    If the Getai will be able to convert some camps in the north and est then the only important thing they are missing is a colonisation system since they are the only fanction without one.
    Thanks for the good news.

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    QuintusSertorius's Avatar EBII Hod Carrier
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    Default Re: Converting camps to cities and nomadic factions to settled ones

    Quote Originally Posted by pericol View Post
    If the Getai will be able to convert some camps in the north and est then the only important thing they are missing is a colonisation system since they are the only fanction without one.
    Thanks for the good news.
    Lots of other factions don't have a colonisation system; Aedui and Arverni, Leusitane, Lugiones for example. Having such a system depends on historical precedent for social customs that support it, not gameplay considerations of who has what feature.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Converting camps to cities and nomadic factions to settled ones

    On a sidenote regarding Numidians:

    I took Cartage as Numidia. After establishing "Spear-won land" the only available government building is Tributary territory which says it doesn't provide any recruiting and severely undermining the further development of the province. Moreover there is nothing else to build after as cartage is already large city and the next upgrade is too far. There are no other options? Do I need to destroy some Cartage buildings?

    any suggestions on how to play a campaign with them from the 'buildings" pov?
    Last edited by Orphydian; November 05, 2016 at 06:37 PM.

  16. #16
    QuintusSertorius's Avatar EBII Hod Carrier
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    Default Re: Converting camps to cities and nomadic factions to settled ones

    Quote Originally Posted by Orphydian View Post
    On a sidenote regarding Numidians:

    I took Cartage as Numidia. After establishing "Spear-won land" the only available government building is Tributary territory which says it doesn't provide any recruiting and severely undermining the further development of the province. Moreover there is nothing else to build after as cartage is already large city and the next upgrade is too far. There are no other options? Do I need to destroy some Cartage buildings?

    any suggestions on how to play a campaign with them from the 'buildings" pov?
    You need the complete Numidia's reform to get access to better government buildings for settled provinces.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Converting camps to cities and nomadic factions to settled ones

    maybe its too late now. Ive reverted back and destroyed the Tributary territory and Spear win land and instead built the Allied government >Allied Democratic one. Can I still doing that if I get the reforms? Thx

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    QuintusSertorius's Avatar EBII Hod Carrier
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    Default Re: Converting camps to cities and nomadic factions to settled ones

    Quote Originally Posted by Orphydian View Post
    maybe its too late now. Ive reverted back and destroyed the Tributary territory and Spear win land and instead built the Allied government >Allied Democratic one. Can I still doing that if I get the reforms? Thx
    See here for the details of the Numidian reform. It's about converting the camps in north Africa into towns.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Converting camps to cities and nomadic factions to settled ones

    Do I need to convert mininmum 2 camps or 3? Ive checked the Government buildings and colonies thread as well and it said about 3 camps. Not sure if the other that I occupied are convertible besides Sigan and Capsa : Tuat and Garama.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Converting camps to cities and nomadic factions to settled ones

    where can I see the list of all the "herds" and their names with every faction that have them. If I can keep the basic one and still build advanced farming I need to know how its called. It isn't elite herds for all the factions or is it?

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